Do you guys consider the Z a yuppie car?

StLRedrider · 06-02-2009, 08:21 PM

Looks like my friend(partime employee) will loose his fulltime GM job on june 10, then he'll come crying back to me again just like last winter. He's the same A-Hole who calls me a freakin yuppie.

dad · 06-02-2009, 08:44 PM

^ I'd really keep an eye on my Z around him.

tvfreakazoid · 06-02-2009, 10:25 PM

NO!

Cypress · 06-02-2009, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WooZ

That guy ought to be blaming his own union for causing him to lose his job...

Totally agree with that comment. Some union members (and I say some and not all), I think believe the rhetoric from the union reps.

Employees of a publicly traded company need to consider one single fact. The company exist for one sole reason and that is to return value to the shareholders. That is most consistently done by having a company that can show profitability and growth year over year ahead of their competitors.

When company's profitability becomes inhibited by rising costs, that has an impact on shareholder value (the stock price). So when the union (one of the many contributing factors to cost) demands higher wages and benefits that become uncompetitive in the "GLOBAL" marketplace, companies profit suffers. I learned a hard fact a few years ago. My pay is based on "competitive cost of labor". If that competition for labor is global, then my pay is now based on what some guy half way around the world is willing to do my same job for - and that is usually less than what I am willing to do the same job for.

We all don't like it, but unfortunately we are in a global economy and as employees and workers in a company, we are not just competing for jobs from the guy down the street, we are competing for jobs with the guy around the world and unfortunately some of them are willing to work for a whole lot less than we are.

So who's to blame, well, I say it starts with the leadership in a company, the Board of Directors. The need to comprehend the global environment when developing the strategies to make the company win. You can not blame the worker for trying to get a nut.

Boards and CEO's should use this opportunity to rid companies of the Union's AND figure out how to compensate employees in a results based compensation plan. Look, fact is, as an employee, nothing is free. If you think you can come in and punch the clock and do your quota, that's fine... as long as the other guy half way around the world is not willing to do more. We are in a global competition for everything.

No flames please, that's just my own opinion.

BTW - I personally don't think this is a yuppie car, I think a 4 door sedan like an Audi, BMW, Lexus, Benz, or something like that is a yuppie car.

Lug · 06-03-2009, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dad

Absolutely correct! The head honchos and car designers of GM and Chrysler are the blame for their failure!

I think it's more a bit of both. The reason GM can't build a cheap car well is that union costs cause a car to be around $1500 more than a non-union built car. So, if you are selling a $50,000 Escalade, that cost is almost negligable. If you are trying to sell a $12,000 economy car, that is a very large percentage of the cost of the car and has to come out of the cost of building it. GM is a huge behemoth and moves slowly to react, but they are also at such a competitive disadvantage on the low end, they have to sell bigger, more expensive vehicles to reduce the cost difference.

You will also notice that the amount of trouble each car manufacturer is directly propotional to it's labor costs.

dad · 06-03-2009, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lug

I think it's more a bit of both. The reason GM can't build a cheap car well is that union costs cause a car to be around $1500 more than a non-union built car. So, if you are selling a $50,000 Escalade, that cost is almost negligable. If you are trying to sell a $12,000 economy car, that is a very large percentage of the cost of the car and has to come out of the cost of building it. GM is a huge behemoth and moves slowly to react, but they are also at such a competitive disadvantage on the low end, they have to sell bigger, more expensive vehicles to reduce the cost difference.

You will also notice that the amount of trouble each car manufacturer is directly propotional to it's labor costs.

I had no idea they made that much. That's too much, way to much!

Lug · 06-03-2009, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dad

I had no idea they made that much. That's too much, way to much!

But remember,that's wage AND benefits (health care, dental, vision, retirement, etc). Actual wages are less. Hourly rates are close between union and nonunion but union plants work a lot more OT plus they have lots of extra costs such as things like the grounds maintainance crews at the factories being part of the UAW, etc. They've costed themselves out of work over the years.

shabarivas · 06-03-2009, 01:48 PM

Not to mention all the retired union workers that they have to pay for... thats whats really killing them... I say good... down with those crappy cars anyhow ... all i will miss is the ford GT...

theDreamer · 06-03-2009, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shabarivas

Not to mention all the retired union workers that they have to pay for... thats whats really killing them... I say good... down with those crappy cars anyhow ... all i will miss is the ford GT...

Except, currently, Ford is doing fine and hopes to weather the storm.

juan05 · 06-03-2009, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rans

What are you talking about with this "government pro unions" thing? What does that even mean? The issues at GM really had more to do with the amount they were paying out in Pensions. Look, it's easy to say Government regulations caused the problems, thats the cheap way out. GM continually refused to answer the call when it came to changing their business model as the industry changed. In the 1970s, after the oil embargos (are you old enough to know about that?), there was an opportunity for GM to begin to change their design and manufacturing. But they didn't. Chrysler almost went under and then they hired Lee Iacocco and he changed their business model and brought them around (I know he cut alot of corners to keep them afloat that came back to haunt them...can you say K-car?). But while Japan was retooling, redesigning, pooring money into R&D, and building quality products selling at a higher price than the comparible models from GM, GM continued turning out crap, plastic, fall apart, crap cars. Think Chevy Vega. The GM model was "Planned Obsolesence". Then the Government mandated CAFE rules and GM whined and complained about them while Japan met the requirements and continued selling and making profit. By the way, Japanese wages were comparable to GM in the 70's, and they had overseas shipping costs too!!

So stop blaming Government and start realizing that GM shot itself in the foot and has no one to blame but itself. Bad decisions based on bad decisions, based on bad decisions.

Sorry for the history lesson. Didn't mean for this to be political, was more trying to make a point about the industry, which Nissan is a part of. So this is related to the 'Z'. But I'm done anyway.

lets all just stop fighting about gm and realize that the 370z kicks ***.

Rans · 06-03-2009, 02:15 PM

Cypress, excellent post, I agree. It's kind of funny to hear people complain about the government moving towards socialism while supporting unions. Surely there is no more socialist entity than a union?

Juan, you're absolutely right!

06-02-2009, 08:21 PM	#46 (permalink)
StLRedrider A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: St.louis,Mo Posts: 17,755 Drives: O9Sprt/Touring,p-51 Rep Power: 60	Looks like my friend(partime employee) will loose his fulltime GM job on june 10, then he'll come crying back to me again just like last winter. He's the same A-Hole who calls me a freakin yuppie. __________________ Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today J.Dean

06-02-2009, 08:44 PM	#47 (permalink)
dad Grand Prix of Endurance Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tennessee Posts: 3,476 Drives: Mulsanne Straight Rep Power: 26	^ I'd really keep an eye on my Z around him. __________________ We can do without any article of luxury we have never had; but once obtained, it is not in human nature to surrender it voluntary.

06-02-2009, 10:25 PM	#48 (permalink)
tvfreakazoid A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: kommie kali Posts: 1,238 Drives: 2015 Audi S5; 6spd. Rep Power: 10324	NO! __________________ Mudders milk

06-03-2009, 02:15 PM	#56 (permalink)
Rans Base Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Easton, Pa. Posts: 62 Drives: 1911 Hupmobile Rep Power: 16	Cypress, excellent post, I agree. It's kind of funny to hear people complain about the government moving towards socialism while supporting unions. Surely there is no more socialist entity than a union? Juan, you're absolutely right! Last edited by Rans; 06-03-2009 at 02:19 PM.

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06-03-2009, 01:48 PM	#53 (permalink)
shabarivas A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 2,188 Drives: 370z MB 6mt Rep Power: 914	Not to mention all the retired union workers that they have to pay for... thats whats really killing them... I say good... down with those crappy cars anyhow ... all i will miss is the ford GT...