Thoughts on why no DCT for the Z....
 

Just was curious. If the DCT is so much better and with many other cars (Nissan GTR, some VW's, Hyundai, Audi, and BMW just to name a few) having them, then why not the Z? Don't get me wrong, I think the auto we have is nice, just was wondering why Nissan didn't use a DCT in the Z. Any thoughts or opinions?

Why they didn't I can't answer that, I'm not Nissan. Although I can say the current 7AT feel like a DCT. Ive been in many DCT cars along with SMG cars and they feel pretty similar to the Z. The Z's up shifts and down shifts give you the feel of the shifts where as the G37 with the apparent same 7AT feels very weak and you feel nothing down shift or up shifting compared to the Z. The 7AT is very quick and responsive when it's in Manual mode. Honestly even if there were a DCT I really don't see the car being a better performer in significance. I've seen sluggish AT and the Z is not one of them.

Cost, I'm guessing.

This site lists an OEM GT-R transmission for over $10,000 Nissan OEM GT-R Complete Transmission G6 - Nissan performance parts

I don't know the exact price of a transmission for either the 7at or 6mt on our Z's, but I'm willing to bet that it isn't over $4000.

I've always heard that dual clutch gearboxes are crap at low speeds too, although I never encountered anything odd while driving a dsg equipped gti.

I'd love to see a dct on the next generation Z though, if they can keep it under a $3k option.

To add to what LakeShow said, the 7AT shifting in the Z is a lot faster than any other traditional automatic I've driven. Vs the G, it seems to rev match more, jumping higher on downshifts.

So many other areas to work on before Nissan upgrades from the current AT.

Not sure if it's 100% a money issue. I had my trany replaced under warranty and the dealer billed Nissan close to $8k for the job. I'm sure it's somewhat inflated pricing to make the dealer more money. But not that far off the price of GTR trany. I would guess its more of an exclusive thing for the GTR.

did that $8k price tag include the labor or just the transmission itself?

A 24,000$ GTI can have a DCT transmission called a DSG. So I doubt it cost 10k for just the DCT transmission and 14k for the rest of the GTI. Anyways my point I don't think it's a cost issue with Nissan. Nissan is just goes about things in an unorthodox way. Look at the GTR, I mean change is good but since 2009 when released, Nissan has changed something on the car whether it be mechanical or cosmetic every single year since 09 which is pretty ridiculous if you ask me.
I mean let the car run its course for at least an extra year or so. If you buy a GTR I am sure you will be upset when Nissan adds something within months of your purchase.

Could it handle the power than the 7A in the 370Z handles?

Well, there would be some advantages to DCT you're not thinking about. On the minimal... we wouldn't have a torque converter which would make our shifts smoother and more seamless than right now... no harsh 1-2-3. Exhaust note would sound better. And finally, when we modify to turbo, our transmissions would have a higher threshold before needing to be modified. Considering we had the GTR transmission or one similar to the EVO. We'd be good for 600hp on our stock tranny. The Z would be hella worth having a DCT in my book.

Are you seriously comparing the GTI DSG to the GT-R transmission??? The guys were right about tacking 10k to the price because of the type of DCT the Z would need. This would drive the price to levels most people wouldn't want to pay for this type of car. I honestly think the Z is already there. In my book the Z is overpriced. Its a great car but overpriced. Adding DCT will just completely kill sales.

To replace a DSG in GTI not under warranty is not cheap. Im happy the Z doesnt have it. Its fine the way it is. DSG/DCT's are not cheap at all. They do fail. Surf the GTI forums for the fun people have with them on failures/software upgrades etc. Cost is the discerning factor and the performance increase is marginal given the cost.

i dont know where you guys are getting the gtr dct prices from, i replaced 2 in my service dept and both jobs were over 30k, if i remember correctly the parts were around 24

Before the '09 GTR, I don't think Nissan had a car with DCT. '09 is also when the Z released also so putting it in after the fact would be massively costly. The best chance there was for a DCT would have been in the mid model refresh, but we already know that was purely cosmetic with some suspension work.

Just get the standard SCT (single clutch transmission) lol.

Cost, risk. I guess.

I traded in an Audi A3 with the DSG for my Z, had several great years with the A3. Mine was even part of a "questionable" batch where Audi bumped the warranty up to 10yrs/100k miles after I bought it.

The A3 was great overall, but the DSG was simply amazing. Same unit that's in the TT, GTI, Tiguan, etc. I never experienced any shuddering, clunks, or hesitation with it, at any speeds. Around town, in "D" it acted just like a fast automatic; shifts were smooth, quick, and nearly imperceptible. Put it in "S", and it would downshift & revmatch with a vengeance, magically hold the proper gear through corners and bang off shifts so fast the tachometer could barely keep up. But never jerky, just unbelievably quick & smooth. Paddle shifters granted 100% manual control. Loved it. :tup:

I only experienced two oddities in the 45k miles I owned the car. Every now and then, on a slight incline in like a stop-and-go situation, if you were feathering the throttle, you'd feel/hear the DSG slipping the clutch a bit as the computer was trying to figure out whether you intended to idle or go. And three or four times, upon selecting reverse, it would not go into gear and just flash the "R" in the gear selection indicator. Flipping to neutral or park then back to R always fixed it.

The only drawback IMHO was maintenance. At least on the A3, the DSG requires a $400-$600 service every 35k miles.

So why doesn't Nissan have one in the Z? I think it's most likely a durability vs cost issue. VAG does the most with DSG's of any manufacturer, and in terms of VW & Audi, they don't put them in any application much over 200hp. AFAIK, just the 2.0T & 2.0 TDI applications. While I suspect there's a comfortable cushion above 200hp, I bet that's about all the transmission is designed to handle. A4 2.0T's with 211hp|258 ft/lbs get CVT's, manuals, or a regular automatic. Lambo's and Ferrari's have DSG's, but that's obviously in an entirely different league of transmission, as the GT-R's is. I've read that they're working on a DSG for the R8; still a supercar. Ford's just now coming out with their first in the new Focus - again, a relatively low-hp/torque application. And I've heard not-so-great things about theirs from the media.

The GT-R's is Nissan's first attempt at one. Assuming it "works out" in terms of development costs and durability, it's likely that they'll take the lessons they've learned and apply it to future cars. Based on my experience with my A3, I'd buy a Z with a DSG without hesitation if it worked as VAG's did. It would make an incredible car even better. I very much enjoy shifting my Z myself, but that DSG really was about the best of both worlds; connectedness & control of a manual with the convenience of an automatic.

Though Nissan's focus seems to be more on CVT's (Maxima, Altima, etc). Imagine a Z with a CVT. :gtfo2:

that will be the end of the Z. :icon17:

It's was the tranny itself. If I remember correctly the total bill was around $9-9.5k.

:wtf2:

That'd be terrible.

So the DCT's that can handle the power (BMW M3, GTR, and so on) are a completely different animal thus way more expensive....correct? Again, I don't really want to see one in the Z because then I'll wish I had that!

yah, but the biggest problem with most AT's is the sloshy torque converter (disconnected throttle input) but from wat i've read, that's only on 1st gear as others electronically lockup on the Z's AT.

in that case i think you're not missing out on much? :confused:

The 7AT on the Z is not a DCT, but so far I'll say 90%+ people who has tried or drive/own it praise the gearbox very much, fast and crisp.

The acceleration time is also comparable to 6MT, so why would NISSAN bother to put in a DCT while the regular 7AT is capable to do such a good job.

And if it is the case, it will be even less wise to put in the DCT since the price of the Z will have to be higher thus hurt the already low sales number.

CAD$0.02

:icon17:

:icon17:

A DCT would probably mean an end to the 6spd manual. Top tier manufacturer are starting to offer DCT type only. In Nissan's eyes, the Auto is perfectly fine...the consensus has been that it's pretty good actually.

I'll be completely depressed if that happen, CLUTCH!!! I WANT CLUTCH!!!

lol, this is like when im driving my AT car and suddenly by mistake slam on the brake with my left foot thinking it's the clutch. :icon17:

I'm a tad better, having my left foot stamp on the foot-rest when starting my AT car. :bowrofl:

hahaha. :icon18:


those WIDE brake pedals throw me off. :icon17:

Seriously, one time I almost heel-toe with it.... :ughdance:

The reason the Z doesn't have DCT is because Nissan doesn't want to do a major change mid-way through the 370Z's life cycle. Just look at the 2013 refresh as an example of that. I think we will see DCT in the next gen Z, whenever that comes. It didn't come with DCT to start with because Nissan wanted to keep it further away from the GT-R at first. After years of experience with the GT-R's DCT, I hope the next gen Z gets the same one at a lower cost or gets some sort of watered down version. Either way, it will probably be better than the current 7AT.

DCT and DSG are vastly different, not really the same mechanically speaking

Really? I thought that a "DCT" is just the generic term for a dual-clutch automated manual transmission, where "DSG" was VAG's trademark name for the same technology. Like Porsche & "PDK". Obviously not having interchangeable parts, but the same idea of a dual-driveshaft, dual-clutch automated manual.

Genuinely curious here - can you describe how is a "DCT" vastly different from a "DSG"?

They're the same thing, just different names. just like manumatic/tiptronic/geartronic/sportronic/touchshift/etc refer to the same thing.

Oops my bad. You are right. I got it mixed up with the SMG sorry.

i can't say why they don't. but i will say imho both the 6 mt and the 7at
trans are the best trans in any car that cost under 40k

There are wet and dry sump dual clutches. Each has its own capablities, strengths and weaknesses. Its not all the same.... geez...

Dual clutch transmission - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

you mean wet and dry clutches, not sumps, right? They are the same mechanically. The difference is that higher power applications use oil cooling to protect the clutch from overheating and slipping during hard acceleration.

Yeah, they are rated for different types of performance. That's what I'm saying. A DCT is a DCT, But the DCT in the. Focus is not the same as the DCT in the GTR or R8. Get real with that part.

I get it now then. Makes me feel much better about my 7at. I have really grown to love it. Don't get me wrong, I love sticks as well but I'm not unhappy that I ended up with the auto. I just always wondered if I was missing out not having a dual clutch like my friend with the M3.

Honestly, the only way you'd be wishing you had a DCT is if you were trying to get 600hp from your auto and didn't want to spend $4k in prep to make the auto turbo friendly. DCT's can take more under that kind of load.