I think my dealer covered up an accident.

msb3079 · 12-29-2011, 11:12 AM

Hey everyone... it's been a while since I've been on here, but I'm looking for your advice on what to do.

I bought a 2009 370Z "leftover" in September 2010. I had NUMEROUS problems. From September-November 2010, I was back at the dealer at least 10 times for repetitive and different issues. I won't even go into all that, but it was a ridiculous experience. And to be honest, the car has never really been right. Hasn't driven correctly, constant weird and different noises. Just a horrible experience. Before this, I had a G35 Coupe and a G37 Coupe... both fantastic experiences.

So anyway... skipping through all that. Last month, I changed insurance companies and had to have a car inspection done at a body shop. Right away she says "so this car has had body work?" I said, "yeah, over there, how'd you notice?" (There was a dent they could not fix dentless, so they had to do minor work - one of 10 issues). She said "no... this side of the car... looks like the whole side was replaced."

I can't believe I didn't notice but ALL of the labeling in the door jam... stickers, VIN plaque, etc.. all gone. Also, the plastic molding has NEVER fit right since day one. This also goes back to another issue. The driver back speaker kept blowing out. Several times in a row. I kept taking it back to be replaced. They even replaced the back sub and the front pre-amp. None of that fixed it. They would put a new speaker in and it would fry in a day. When telling this story to a buddy, he says, probably if it was hit and wires or wiring harness was hit/cut/etc... that would cause this issue.
At this point... I'm now even wondering about the frame of the car. It's never seemed to drive in balance, even when it is. I eventually just gave up and dealt with it. Thought it was just wheel issues... but thinking it could even be the frame.

The car had 3,000 miles on it. Was sold as NEW to me. I was not informed of any issues, accidents, anything like that.
My question is... how do I proceed? It seems like it was crashed and covered up... which to me, is FRAUD. I figured I'd call the dealer first and give them a shot, before going to Nissan.

Thanks for listening.. I know this is a long post. Any suggestions are appreciated.

gurneyeagle · 12-29-2011, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by msb3079

Hey everyone... it's been a while since I've been on here, but I'm looking for your advice on what to do.

I bought a 2009 370Z "leftover" in September 2010. I had NUMEROUS problems. From September-November 2010, I was back at the dealer at least 10 times for repetitive and different issues. I won't even go into all that, but it was a ridiculous experience. And to be honest, the car has never really been right. Hasn't driven correctly, constant weird and different noises. Just a horrible experience. Before this, I had a G35 Coupe and a G37 Coupe... both fantastic experiences.

So anyway... skipping through all that. Last month, I changed insurance companies and had to have a car inspection done at a body shop. Right away she says "so this car has had body work?" I said, "yeah, over there, how'd you notice?" (There was a dent they could not fix dentless, so they had to do minor work - one of 10 issues). She said "no... this side of the car... looks like the whole side was replaced."

I can't believe I didn't notice but ALL of the labeling in the door jam... stickers, VIN plaque, etc.. all gone. Also, the plastic molding has NEVER fit right since day one. This also goes back to another issue. The driver back speaker kept blowing out. Several times in a row. I kept taking it back to be replaced. They even replaced the back sub and the front pre-amp. None of that fixed it. They would put a new speaker in and it would fry in a day. When telling this story to a buddy, he says, probably if it was hit and wires or wiring harness was hit/cut/etc... that would cause this issue.
At this point... I'm now even wondering about the frame of the car. It's never seemed to drive in balance, even when it is. I eventually just gave up and dealt with it. Thought it was just wheel issues... but thinking it could even be the frame.

The car had 3,000 miles on it. Was sold as NEW to me. I was not informed of any issues, accidents, anything like that.
My question is... how do I proceed? It seems like it was crashed and covered up... which to me, is FRAUD. I figured I'd call the dealer first and give them a shot, before going to Nissan.

Thanks for listening.. I know this is a long post. Any suggestions are appreciated.

Talk to an attorney first.

wstar · 12-29-2011, 11:33 AM

If I were you I'd talk to a lawyer first and see what they can dig up on how the laws for this work in your jurisdiction. Lemon laws (and other things related to defective products and fraud) can vary by state, but you're likely to be borderline on whether there's any clear law that can protect you now, because it's been such a long time since the sale.

The 3K miles and 10 trips to the dealer in the first few months should have been the big red warning flag, and it would have been easy just about anywhere to reject the car under a local lemon law at that time, and it would have been prudent to have an independent mechanic check it out thoroughly at that time as well. But this late in the game, you may already be outside the time-window of certain automatic protections in your favor, and even if you opt for a plain civilian lawsuit against the dealership you may have a hard time proving that they actually did it (as opposed to their lawyer's possible alternate story: that the car had a few gremlins initially which the dealership worked through with you, and then you had a large wreck later, had it fixed in cash and off the records, and are trying to now blame and defraud *them*).

I certainly wouldn't call the dealership first. If they sold you a wrecked and repaired car as new, you already know they're shady. By going to them first you're just tipping your hand and giving them time to come up with stories, etc.

msb3079 · 12-29-2011, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

If I were you I'd talk to a lawyer first and see what they can dig up on how the laws for this work in your jurisdiction. Lemon laws (and other things related to defective products and fraud) can vary by state, but you're likely to be borderline on whether there's any clear law that can protect you now, because it's been such a long time since the sale.

The 3K miles and 10 trips to the dealer in the first few months should have been the big red warning flag, and it would have been easy just about anywhere to reject the car under a local lemon law at that time, and it would have been prudent to have an independent mechanic check it out thoroughly at that time as well. But this late in the game, you may already be outside the time-window of certain automatic protections in your favor, and even if you opt for a plain civilian lawsuit against the dealership you may have a hard time proving that they actually did it (as opposed to their lawyer's possible alternate story: that the car had a few gremlins initially which the dealership worked through with you, and then you had a large wreck later, had it fixed in cash and off the records, and are trying to now blame and defraud *them*).

I certainly wouldn't call the dealership first. If they sold you a wrecked and repaired car as new, you already know they're shady. By going to them first you're just tipping your hand and giving them time to come up with stories, etc.

True, good point there.. about going to the dealer first.
What about talking to Nissan corporate? Also a bad idea? I can't imagine a lawyer being cheap... and why should I have to pay for that?

NYBladeZ · 12-29-2011, 11:45 AM

Paying for an attorney is just how the system works. I'd probably have the body shop that noticed the work give it a full check up and get some hard evidence that panels and parts were replaced which will be another cost. Hate to say it but if you really want to address this issue its going to cost you some $$$, you may be able to get back your attorney costs if you do indeed find wrongdoing on behalf of the dealer.

cdoxp800 · 12-29-2011, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gurneyeagle

Talk to an attorney first.

I have been down this same path with my first 2006 350z. The car was Keyed and then repainted. The car was sold to me a NEW. I found this when I started to wax the car and it felt all nasty, so I clay barred the car and Bamm the Key marks started showing up on the whole drivers side.

370Zsteve · 12-29-2011, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gurneyeagle

Talk to an attorney first.

Absolutely.

didymus · 12-29-2011, 12:02 PM

How does a new car have 3000 miles on it?

theDreamer · 12-29-2011, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by didymus

How does a new car have 3000 miles on it?

Dealer demo car, dealers can use a car to let people test drive it and the miles can add up over the year. Also, dealers can 'use' a car to drive around for personal use without it being registered, but are limited to so many miles before it must be legally registered.

msb3079 · 12-29-2011, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theDreamer

Dealer demo car, dealers can use a car to let people test drive it and the miles can add up over the year. Also, dealers can 'use' a car to drive around for personal use without it being registered, but are limited to so many miles before it must be legally registered.

Yeah, apparently the dealership owner's wife was driving it. That's what I was told at least... but who knows.

theDreamer · 12-29-2011, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by msb3079

Yeah, apparently the dealership owner's wife was driving it. That's what I was told at least... but who knows.

I would believe that, but they may have left out the: "Owners wife was driving it and......'

msb3079 · 12-29-2011, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theDreamer

I would believe that, but they may have left out the: "Owners wife was driving it and......'

Well, yeah... exactly.

280z/300zx · 12-29-2011, 12:55 PM

Heard about a similar issue with a STR-4 neon back in 2006. Apparently some guy got on the SRT forums warrning people about a particular SRT-4 at a dealership. I guess he was at the dealer when one of the employs, after joyriding in a NEW SRT, pulled in with the front bumper hanging off. Can't remember the details but essentially the dealer did the repairs and still had the car on the showroom floor as new. Luckily the guy reported it on the forums and it got enough attention that eventually the dealer had to ship it off to another dealer out of state. Unfortunately some other poor soul probably ended up with it.

During the discussions on the forum it was said that if a car is damaged while NEW in care of the dealer the damages could be repaired, the car sold as new still, and the issues never had to be disclosed. Apparently this is common practice as minor damage is common when loading and unloading cars off boats/trucks. Not sure if this is 100% accurate info but this was posted by several different people at that time.

msb3079 · 12-29-2011, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 280z/300zx

Heard about a similar issue with a STR-4 neon back in 2006. Apparently some guy got on the SRT forums warrning people about a particular SRT-4 at a dealership. I guess he was at the dealer when one of the employs, after joyriding in a NEW SRT, pulled in with the front bumper hanging off. Can't remember the details but essentially the dealer did the repairs and still had the car on the showroom floor as new. Luckily the guy reported it on the forums and it got enough attention that eventually the dealer had to ship it off to another dealer out of state. Unfortunately some other poor soul probably ended up with it.

During the discussions on the forum it was said that if a car is damaged while NEW in care of the dealer the damages could be repaired, the car sold as new still, and the issues never had to be disclosed. Apparently this is common practice as minor damage is common when loading and unloading cars off boats/trucks. Not sure if this is 100% accurate info but this was posted by several different people at that time.

Well I could almost understand that. It sounds like the difference between a minor repair that doesn't effect other things versus a major repair that seems to have effected other things on my car.

jayl · 12-29-2011, 01:21 PM

thats sad! can you run a carfax with your vin to try to get more info?

I hope with 3k miles you got the car at a very discounted price! The local dealer here tried to sell me a car that had 3k miles also. On the phone I was told it was NEW when I got there found out it had 3k miles since it was their demo car... so I said bye bye and left.

12-29-2011, 11:12 AM	#1 (permalink)
msb3079 Base Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: collingswood.nj Posts: 133 Drives: 12 Touring Sport 6MT Rep Power: 16	I think my dealer covered up an accident. Hey everyone... it's been a while since I've been on here, but I'm looking for your advice on what to do. I bought a 2009 370Z "leftover" in September 2010. I had NUMEROUS problems. From September-November 2010, I was back at the dealer at least 10 times for repetitive and different issues. I won't even go into all that, but it was a ridiculous experience. And to be honest, the car has never really been right. Hasn't driven correctly, constant weird and different noises. Just a horrible experience. Before this, I had a G35 Coupe and a G37 Coupe... both fantastic experiences. So anyway... skipping through all that. Last month, I changed insurance companies and had to have a car inspection done at a body shop. Right away she says "so this car has had body work?" I said, "yeah, over there, how'd you notice?" (There was a dent they could not fix dentless, so they had to do minor work - one of 10 issues). She said "no... this side of the car... looks like the whole side was replaced." I can't believe I didn't notice but ALL of the labeling in the door jam... stickers, VIN plaque, etc.. all gone. Also, the plastic molding has NEVER fit right since day one. This also goes back to another issue. The driver back speaker kept blowing out. Several times in a row. I kept taking it back to be replaced. They even replaced the back sub and the front pre-amp. None of that fixed it. They would put a new speaker in and it would fry in a day. When telling this story to a buddy, he says, probably if it was hit and wires or wiring harness was hit/cut/etc... that would cause this issue. At this point... I'm now even wondering about the frame of the car. It's never seemed to drive in balance, even when it is. I eventually just gave up and dealt with it. Thought it was just wheel issues... but thinking it could even be the frame. The car had 3,000 miles on it. Was sold as NEW to me. I was not informed of any issues, accidents, anything like that. My question is... how do I proceed? It seems like it was crashed and covered up... which to me, is FRAUD. I figured I'd call the dealer first and give them a shot, before going to Nissan. Thanks for listening.. I know this is a long post. Any suggestions are appreciated. Last edited by msb3079; 12-29-2011 at 11:14 AM.

12-29-2011, 11:33 AM	#3 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3594	If I were you I'd talk to a lawyer first and see what they can dig up on how the laws for this work in your jurisdiction. Lemon laws (and other things related to defective products and fraud) can vary by state, but you're likely to be borderline on whether there's any clear law that can protect you now, because it's been such a long time since the sale. The 3K miles and 10 trips to the dealer in the first few months should have been the big red warning flag, and it would have been easy just about anywhere to reject the car under a local lemon law at that time, and it would have been prudent to have an independent mechanic check it out thoroughly at that time as well. But this late in the game, you may already be outside the time-window of certain automatic protections in your favor, and even if you opt for a plain civilian lawsuit against the dealership you may have a hard time proving that they actually did it (as opposed to their lawyer's possible alternate story: that the car had a few gremlins initially which the dealership worked through with you, and then you had a large wreck later, had it fixed in cash and off the records, and are trying to now blame and defraud them). I certainly wouldn't call the dealership first. If they sold you a wrecked and repaired car as new, you already know they're shady. By going to them first you're just tipping your hand and giving them time to come up with stories, etc. __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

12-29-2011, 11:45 AM	#5 (permalink)
NYBladeZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: New York Posts: 2,158 Drives: Lotus Exige S Rep Power: 20	Paying for an attorney is just how the system works. I'd probably have the body shop that noticed the work give it a full check up and get some hard evidence that panels and parts were replaced which will be another cost. Hate to say it but if you really want to address this issue its going to cost you some $$$, you may be able to get back your attorney costs if you do indeed find wrongdoing on behalf of the dealer. __________________ 2009 Carbon Fiber/Red 370z aka Trish: Sports Package, Meisterschaft full catback, Fast Intentions Longtube Headers, Injen Long Tube Intakes, UpRev Tune: Sold 2008 Lotus Exige S Club Racer aka Bella, always leaves me smiling

12-29-2011, 01:21 PM	#15 (permalink)
jayl Track Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: md Posts: 813 Drives: 09 370z base MT Rep Power: 16	thats sad! can you run a carfax with your vin to try to get more info? I hope with 3k miles you got the car at a very discounted price! The local dealer here tried to sell me a car that had 3k miles also. On the phone I was told it was NEW when I got there found out it had 3k miles since it was their demo car... so I said bye bye and left. __________________ -Jay

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12-29-2011, 12:02 PM	#8 (permalink)
didymus Track Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Providence / Boston Posts: 564 Drives: 280 / 370Z Rep Power: 306	How does a new car have 3000 miles on it?

12-29-2011, 12:55 PM	#13 (permalink)
280z/300zx Track Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Nevada Posts: 689 Drives: 280z, 300zx, Vette Rep Power: 272	Heard about a similar issue with a STR-4 neon back in 2006. Apparently some guy got on the SRT forums warrning people about a particular SRT-4 at a dealership. I guess he was at the dealer when one of the employs, after joyriding in a NEW SRT, pulled in with the front bumper hanging off. Can't remember the details but essentially the dealer did the repairs and still had the car on the showroom floor as new. Luckily the guy reported it on the forums and it got enough attention that eventually the dealer had to ship it off to another dealer out of state. Unfortunately some other poor soul probably ended up with it. During the discussions on the forum it was said that if a car is damaged while NEW in care of the dealer the damages could be repaired, the car sold as new still, and the issues never had to be disclosed. Apparently this is common practice as minor damage is common when loading and unloading cars off boats/trucks. Not sure if this is 100% accurate info but this was posted by several different people at that time.