Lots of wrecked Z's...

Red__Zed · 12-28-2011, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

so if you had a viper srt 10 to drive year round, you'd just put snow tires and continue as usual?

never driven a mid engine car, but i drove a few front midship cars and actually i felt they were very stable under braking. And braking less is not always an option on the street. What if a guy cuts you off? Or a bus unexpectedly pulls out of the bus bay? Or a pedestrian decides to jaywalk across the street right in front of you?

simply put, if you don't have the ability to brake with tons of weight on the front axles, you don't have it at all. Besides, if it's a pedestrian you are avoiding, let the rear end come out-- who cares?

I'm curious what front mid-ship cars you've driven since you've never driven another RWD car.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

actually i'm talking about braking in a straight line. a lighter rear end is more prone to fishtailing under hard braking. yes in a corner the opposite is true, and the car will tend to understeer. but in a straight line, with the car diving under hard braking, with all the drivetrain weight on the front wheels, the rear wheels are very prone to losing grip. that's why many older pickup trucks used to come with ABS only on the rear axle.

they'll lose grip but they really aren't if there's not much weight out back. besides, lighten up on the pedal if that happens...

m4a1mustang · 12-28-2011, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FL 4Motion

I love your self confidence, it's very endearing.

It's just so simple. I mean, the SRT-10 makes something around 200 hp at 3,500 rpm or so. Probably something on the order of 400 lb-ft at that RPM. Totally driveable with a good snow tire and weight over the rear, especially with the tall gearing!

Jeffblue · 12-28-2011, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

so if you had a viper srt 10 to drive year round, you'd just put snow tires and continue as usual?

never driven a mid engine car, but i drove a few front midship cars and actually i felt they were very stable under braking. And braking less is not always an option on the street. What if a guy cuts you off? Or a bus unexpectedly pulls out of the bus bay? Or a pedestrian decides to jaywalk across the street right in front of you?

no matter how well a car handles, it can't make up for poor judgement. If you are speeding down a school zone in a lotus or an escalade, its stupid. In the lotus you can stop more quickly and change direction more easily, but its still stupid

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

true, except you're wrong in one thing. Even if you go 100% full throttle in a corolla, you're still delivering less power and torque to the wheel than the viper engine does to its wheels even at idle at 0% throttle

really? i didn't realize cars delivered power to the wheels when the car is in neutral.

Red__Zed · 12-28-2011, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FL 4Motion

I love your self confidence, it's very endearing.

steve's a very good driver. he was able to pilot a 5.0 faster than the 370z's at zdayz, and since we all know it wasn't the car....

Pharmacist · 12-28-2011, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cossie1600

The car has ABS/EBD. How the f do you lose your backend braking in a straight line unless you are in the snow or your car is busted. I mean you might hit ice mode and lose all your braking, but very seldom does the car lose the backend and swing it around.

it was snowy. And i didn't lose the back end or anything. The rear just wiggled a bit.

Quote:

If I had an SRT-10 Viper I'd obviously have some other cars... but yes, if you said, "Steve... the ONLY car you can drive this winter is an SRT-10" I would slap Blizzaks on it and be fine. Obviously I wouldn't be able to drive in deep snow, but on freshly plowed, snow-packed roads or very light accumulations I would be 100% fine.

You're still assuming you will be at 100% and paying full attention. We're talking about street driving here. Imagine finishing a 12 h shift. You're tired, hungry, and have a headache. And it starts raining or snowing. Rank the following cars according to which one you'll feel safer driving: 1) Viper srt 10, 2) 370z, 3) toyota corolla.

m4a1mustang · 12-28-2011, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

it was snowy. And i didn't lose the back end or anything. The rear just wiggled a bit. You're still assuming you will be at 100% and paying full attention. We're talking about street driving here. Imagine finishing a 12 h shift. You're tired, hungry, and have a headache. And it starts raining or snowing. Rank the following cars according to which one you'll feel safer driving: 1) Viper srt 10, 2) 370z, 3) toyota corolla.

I'd still be fine in either one.

And if I was tired to the point where it was unsafe for me to drive, I wouldn't drive.

m4a1mustang · 12-28-2011, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

it was snowy. And i didn't lose the back end or anything. The rear just wiggled a bit.

Earlier you were implying that all that weight up front made the back step out under hard braking in the snow... now you are saying it just wiggled.

Alchemy · 12-28-2011, 12:23 PM

Lol 22 users now. This thread is so active its put the conference room on freeze. Got all the trolls, I mean OG's in here.

b1adesofcha0s · 12-28-2011, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

it was snowy. And i didn't lose the back end or anything. The rear just wiggled a bit. You're still assuming you will be at 100% and paying full attention. We're talking about street driving here. Imagine finishing a 12 h shift. You're tired, hungry, and have a headache. And it starts raining or snowing. Rank the following cars according to which one you'll feel safer driving: 1) Viper srt 10, 2) 370z, 3) toyota corolla.

You keep changing the situation and conditions to try and force him to not pick the Viper!

Pharmacist · 12-28-2011, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

simply put, if you don't have the ability to brake with tons of weight on the front axles, you don't have it at all. Besides, if it's a pedestrian you are avoiding, let the rear end come out-- who cares?

I'm curious what front mid-ship cars you've driven since you've never driven another RWD car.

they'll lose grip but they really aren't if there's not much weight out back. besides, lighten up on the pedal if that happens...

Which FM car I drove? a couple of infiniti awd g coupes. none was mine but i drove them a few times. and the point wasn't my braking ability. I am perfectly capable of braking, though thanks for your advice

The point was that "tons of weight over the front axle" is not necessarily a good thing to have on a car.

m4a1mustang · 12-28-2011, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

The point was that "tons of weight over the front axle" is not necessarily a good thing to have on a car.

Because the back end might wiggle.

Pharmacist · 12-28-2011, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffblue

no matter how well a car handles, it can't make up for poor judgement. If you are speeding down a school zone in a lotus or an escalade, its stupid. In the lotus you can stop more quickly and change direction more easily, but its still stupid

really? i didn't realize cars delivered power to the wheels when the car is in neutral.

you do realize that you don't have to go "speeding down a school zone" in order for someone to cut you off and force hard braking, right?

Red__Zed · 12-28-2011, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

Which FM car I drove? a couple of infiniti awd g coupes. none was mine but i drove them a few times. and the point wasn't my braking ability. I am perfectly capable of braking, though thanks for your advice

The point was that "tons of weight over the front axle" is not necessarily a good thing to have on a car.

no, it's an awful thing. it causes cars to push through the turns and slows you down. but it generates the behavior you love in the Z, and makes snow driving pretty easy.

neither the Z nor the G are true FMR designs btw.

Red__Zed · 12-28-2011, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

you do realize that you don't have to go "speeding down a school zone" in order for someone to cut you off and force hard braking, right?

no but it sure helps make sure those situations crop up more often.

Pharmacist · 12-28-2011, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

Earlier you were implying that all that weight up front made the back step out under hard braking in the snow... now you are saying it just wiggled.

no, it just wiggled. it didn't step out as in spin out or anything. Just a bit of wiggling. Like I said, the ABS takes care of it. The point though is too much weight on the front wheels can make the back unstable if you brake too hard.

12-28-2011, 12:23 PM	#68 (permalink)
Alchemy A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Jersey Age: 45 Posts: 4,855 Drives: to acquire tickets Rep Power: 3524	Lol 22 users now. This thread is so active its put the conference room on freeze. Got all the trolls, I mean OG's in here. __________________ Ryan 314WHP \| 260LB-FT \| STILLEN \| KONI \| SWIFT \| STOPTECH \| Z1 \| PROJECT MU \| CNT \| UPREV \| FORGESTAR \| BRIDGESTONE \| PWJDM \| ENEOS \| MOTUL

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