Lots of wrecked Z's...

m4a1mustang · 12-28-2011, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

i disagree. it also means the rear of the car is prone to losing traction, especially under braking. i used to have a chrysler intrepid, and all the drivetrain (engine, gearbox, diff) was IN FRONT of the front wheels. brake a bit too hard and the back end would get light on its wheels. Occasionally that led to a bit of minor fishtailing under braking. Nothing the ABS didn't fix but it still did happen.

You were going too fast for the conditions. I can get the back end to step out in my car on snow tires under braking if I am going too fast...

More rear weight makes the rear of the car want to overtake the front when you attempt to stop quickly... especially if turning. If you have more weight on the front, the car tends to track much straighter... Simple physics.

There's a reason why the older 911s were notorious for ridiculous amounts of oversteer... all that weight over the rear axle.

Pharmacist · 12-28-2011, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

You were going too fast for the conditions. I can get the back end to step out in my car on snow tires under braking if I am going too fast...

More rear weight makes the rear of the car want to overtake the front when you attempt to stop quickly... especially if turning. If you have more weight on the front, the car tends to track much straighter... Simple physics.

There's a reason why the older 911s were notorious for ridiculous amounts of oversteer... all that weight over the rear axle.

actually i'm talking about braking in a straight line. a lighter rear end is more prone to fishtailing under hard braking. yes in a corner the opposite is true, and the car will tend to understeer. but in a straight line, with the car diving under hard braking, with all the drivetrain weight on the front wheels, the rear wheels are very prone to losing grip. that's why many older pickup trucks used to come with ABS only on the rear axle.

m4a1mustang · 12-28-2011, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

actually i'm talking about braking in a straight line. a lighter rear end is more prone to fishtailing under hard braking. yes in a corner the opposite is true, and the car will tend to understeer. but in a straight line, with the car diving under hard braking, with all the drivetrain weight on the front wheels, the rear wheels are very prone to losing grip. that's why many older pickup trucks used to come with ABS only on the rear axle.

It's also easy to regain traction under braking in a car with a lot of weight on the front axle by letting off the brake like Red__Zed mentioned. It's very easy to get it under control. And yes while the rear end might feel like it's sliding around back there, all of the cars mass is at the front and is most likely going to keep a fairly straight track... and if it doesn't it's easy enough to correct.

Now if you try to stop all of that mass on the *** end of a 911 from coming around under hard braking... good luck.

Red__Zed · 12-28-2011, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

so if you had a viper srt 10 to drive year round, you'd just put snow tires and continue as usual?

never driven a mid engine car, but i drove a few front midship cars and actually i felt they were very stable under braking. And braking less is not always an option on the street. What if a guy cuts you off? Or a bus unexpectedly pulls out of the bus bay? Or a pedestrian decides to jaywalk across the street right in front of you?

simply put, if you don't have the ability to brake with tons of weight on the front axles, you don't have it at all. Besides, if it's a pedestrian you are avoiding, let the rear end come out-- who cares?

I'm curious what front mid-ship cars you've driven since you've never driven another RWD car.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

actually i'm talking about braking in a straight line. a lighter rear end is more prone to fishtailing under hard braking. yes in a corner the opposite is true, and the car will tend to understeer. but in a straight line, with the car diving under hard braking, with all the drivetrain weight on the front wheels, the rear wheels are very prone to losing grip. that's why many older pickup trucks used to come with ABS only on the rear axle.

they'll lose grip but they really aren't if there's not much weight out back. besides, lighten up on the pedal if that happens...

Pharmacist · 12-28-2011, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

simply put, if you don't have the ability to brake with tons of weight on the front axles, you don't have it at all. Besides, if it's a pedestrian you are avoiding, let the rear end come out-- who cares?

I'm curious what front mid-ship cars you've driven since you've never driven another RWD car.

they'll lose grip but they really aren't if there's not much weight out back. besides, lighten up on the pedal if that happens...

Which FM car I drove? a couple of infiniti awd g coupes. none was mine but i drove them a few times. and the point wasn't my braking ability. I am perfectly capable of braking, though thanks for your advice

The point was that "tons of weight over the front axle" is not necessarily a good thing to have on a car.

m4a1mustang · 12-28-2011, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

The point was that "tons of weight over the front axle" is not necessarily a good thing to have on a car.

Because the back end might wiggle.

Pharmacist · 12-28-2011, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

Because the back end might wiggle.

glad we agree on something

Red__Zed · 12-28-2011, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

Which FM car I drove? a couple of infiniti awd g coupes. none was mine but i drove them a few times. and the point wasn't my braking ability. I am perfectly capable of braking, though thanks for your advice

The point was that "tons of weight over the front axle" is not necessarily a good thing to have on a car.

no, it's an awful thing. it causes cars to push through the turns and slows you down. but it generates the behavior you love in the Z, and makes snow driving pretty easy.

neither the Z nor the G are true FMR designs btw.

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