Lots of wrecked Z's...

Pharmacist · 12-28-2011, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

Now you backed me against a wall talking about promises and all..

All joking aside, I want a 370Z, and Lou has the "nearest" one to me, on a time-line scale, and even that won't happen until mid-feb. I have to post SOMETHING to keep me busy. I was just curious if there was anything "ugly" about the 370 at the limit that bit people in the arse. I have always owned and driven RWD V8 cars, most of the manuals, and understand the principal of it, but I fully admit I am not god's gift to driving. I leave all my nannies on in the Z06. That car can be a hand-full no-matter how good you think you are. So far I don't think the nannies have bailed me out, because I don't do things I am unsure about in it, but it's REALLY nice knowing they are there. Very unobtrusive, as well.

Anyway, forgive me for killing time while I wait on a 370Z like I want to arrive in America. Looks like Lou's is my best bet.

never driven a z06, or any other rwd car for that matter. but i'd say the z is better balanced and better handling than the corvette. it comes from the factory with a hint of understeer, and you can cure that on the track with a bit of throttle to push it into neutral. so on the road, unless you do something stupid like hard throttle on a slippery road, you won't get the snap oversteer and fishtailing you can get with corvettes. keep the vdc on when it's raining or snowing and you'll be fine.

m4a1mustang · 12-28-2011, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

never driven a z06, or any other rwd car for that matter. but i'd say the z is better balanced and better handling than the corvette. it comes from the factory with a hint of understeer, and you can cure that on the track with a bit of throttle to push it into neutral. so on the road, unless you do something stupid like hard throttle on a slippery road, you won't get the snap oversteer and fishtailing you can get with corvettes. keep the vdc on when it's raining or snowing and you'll be fine.

How can you even make that assessment when you admit you've never driven a Corvette... or any other RWD for that matter? It's not possible.

Pharmacist · 12-28-2011, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

How can you even make that assessment when you admit you've never driven a Corvette... or any other RWD for that matter? It's not possible.

it comes with a little bit of understeer. corvettes have quite a bit of oversteer. for driving on the road, a understeer is more predictable and easier to handle than oversteer. especially when traction is low and the road is slippery.

m4a1mustang · 12-28-2011, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

it comes with a little bit of understeer. corvettes have quite a bit of oversteer. for driving on the road, a understeer is more predictable and easier to handle than oversteer. especially when traction is low and the road is slippery.

Nice theory, but go out and put it into practice before you make assessments like this. A Corvette will not run into a snap oversteer condition like you described unless you give it too much throttle... just like the Z. In fact, the Vettes themselves are fairly neutral with a bit of understeer... unless you overpower the rear tires.

And whether understeer or oversteer is easier to control is 100% up to the driver.

ImportConvert · 12-28-2011, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

Nice theory, but go out and put it into practice before you make assessments like this. A Corvette will not run into a snap oversteer condition like you described unless you give it too much throttle... just like the Z. In fact, the Vettes themselves are fairly neutral with a bit of understeer... unless you overpower the rear tires.

And whether understeer or oversteer is easier to control is 100% up to the driver.

This was my experience with GS, Z06, and ZR1's that I have driven. At the limit, you get VERY PREDICTABLE under-steer with a lot of feed back from a good tire like the PS2, that is mitigated with a laying off of the gas-pedal or light application of the brake. The car is as docile as you let it be with no Jekyll and Hyde tendencies. I just wanted to inquire if the 370Z had any due to the shorter wheel-base and different suspension design. I am not familiar with the 370Z except for test drives that obviously did not involve the limit.

Jeffblue · 12-28-2011, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

never driven a z06, or any other rwd car for that matter. but i'd say the z is better balanced and better handling than the corvette. it comes from the factory with a hint of understeer, and you can cure that on the track with a bit of throttle to push it into neutral. so on the road, unless you do something stupid like hard throttle on a slippery road, you won't get the snap oversteer and fishtailing you can get with corvettes. keep the vdc on when it's raining or snowing and you'll be fine.

hahah. yea seriously. so, in your opinion, the Z handles better than a car that you've never driven? And you know exactly how to cure the understeer at the track, which based on the fact that the Z is your first RWD Car, i seriously doubt you've taken it to auto X, much less a road course, and even if you did, you probably drove it gingerly (as anyone would if they are an inexperienced driver). but please, continue talking about the handling characteristics of a car you've never driven, and continue talking about how to handle a Z on a track, a place you've probably never been.

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

How can you even make that assessment when you admit you've never driven a Corvette... or any other RWD for that matter? It's not possible.

Pharmacist · 12-28-2011, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffblue

hahah. yea seriously. so, in your opinion, the Z handles better than a car that you've never driven? And you know exactly how to cure the understeer at the track, which based on the fact that the Z is your first RWD Car, i seriously doubt you've taken it to auto X, much less a road course, and even if you did, you probably drove it gingerly (as anyone would if they are an inexperienced driver). but please, continue talking about the handling characteristics of a car you've never driven, and continue talking about how to handle a Z on a track, a place you've probably never been.

even though i owe you nothing, i did in fact drive the z on the track about a dozen times. and yes, i was pretty fast. not the fastest. but fast enough to lose control a few times and spin off. there are youtube videos of me. but we're not talking about track here. we're talking about driving on the street going to get groceries or going to the movies. that's my point, which is that on the street, on rain, or even snow, a z is an easier and friendlier car to drive than a 500 hp z06 corvette.

Red__Zed · 12-28-2011, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

even though i owe you nothing, i did in fact drive the z on the track about a dozen times. and yes, i was pretty fast. not the fastest. but fast enough to lose control a few times and spin off. there are youtube videos of me. but we're not talking about track here. we're talking about driving on the street going to get groceries or going to the movies. that's my point, which is that on the street, on rain, or even snow, a z is an easier and friendlier car to drive than a 500 hp z06 corvette.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

fast enough to lose control a few times and spin off.

:|

yewtewb link plox

Jeffblue · 12-28-2011, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

even though i owe you nothing, i did in fact drive the z on the track about a dozen times. and yes, i was pretty fast. not the fastest. but fast enough to lose control a few times and spin off. there are youtube videos of me. but we're not talking about track here. we're talking about driving on the street going to get groceries or going to the movies. that's my point, which is that on the street, on rain, or even snow, a z is an easier and friendlier car to drive than a 500 hp z06 corvette.

the best way to avoid accidents on the street is defensive driving. Defensive driving has much more of an impact then how well you can throw your car around a corner at a road course. Every time i approach an intersection, i assume some a-hole is going to make a left turn in front of me because they aren't paying attention.

horsepower doesn't matter in snow or inclement weather. Does horsepower matter when you stop? no. A high HP car will only handle worse in the snow/rain than a lower hp car if the driver is doing something they shouldn't be doing anyway, which is getting on the throttle hard during the turn.

most snow accidents aren't the result of accelerating and lost traction. They are when someone tries to stop and the car keeps sliding. or when they try to turn and the car keeps going straight.

Z's just seem like they are more accident prone because they are less expensive than corvettes and more accessible to people will poorer judgement.

Alchemy · 12-28-2011, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffblue

the best way to avoid accidents on the street is defensive driving. Defensive driving has much more of an impact then how well you can throw your car around a corner at a road course. Every time i approach an intersection, i assume some a-hole is going to make a left turn in front of me because they aren't paying attention.

horsepower doesn't matter in snow or inclement weather. Does horsepower matter when you stop? no. A high HP car will only handle worse in the snow/rain than a lower hp car if the driver is doing something they shouldn't be doing anyway, which is getting on the throttle hard during the turn.

most snow accidents aren't the result of accelerating and lost traction. They are when someone tries to stop and the car keeps sliding. or when they try to turn and the car keeps going straight.

Z's just seem like they are more accident prone because they are less expensive than corvettes and more accessible to people will poorer judgement.

I completely agree with Jeff here. Defensive driving is super important. Im constantly ready for some d1ckbag to pull something stupid.

Pharmacist · 12-28-2011, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffblue

the best way to avoid accidents on the street is defensive driving. Defensive driving has much more of an impact then how well you can throw your car around a corner at a road course. Every time i approach an intersection, i assume some a-hole is going to make a left turn in front of me because they aren't paying attention.

horsepower doesn't matter in snow or inclement weather. Does horsepower matter when you stop? no. A high HP car will only handle worse in the snow/rain than a lower hp car if the driver is doing something they shouldn't be doing anyway, which is getting on the throttle hard during the turn.

most snow accidents aren't the result of accelerating and lost traction. They are when someone tries to stop and the car keeps sliding. or when they try to turn and the car keeps going straight.

Z's just seem like they are more accident prone because they are less expensive than corvettes and more accessible to people will poorer judgement.

indeed, an a-hole making a left turn is what destroyed my car a month ago. I agree with almost all you're saying. Except, that higher hp cars are still more difficult to handle than lower hp cars. Even at partial throttle, a car with a bigger engine will still be delivering more torque to the wheels than a car with a smaller engine assuming the same throttle position. More torque delivered to the wheels increases the chances of power oversteer. Especially with a car like a corvette or a viper that produces a lot of torque even at very low rpm.

m4a1mustang · 12-28-2011, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

indeed, an a-hole making a left turn is what destroyed my car a month ago. I agree with almost all you're saying. Except, that higher hp cars are still more difficult to handle than lower hp cars. Even at partial throttle, a car with a bigger engine will still be delivering more torque to the wheels than a car with a smaller engine assuming the same throttle position. More torque delivered to the wheels increases the chances of power oversteer. Especially with a car like a corvette or a viper that produces a lot of torque even at very low rpm.

More difficult to handle for an inexperienced driver, perhaps...

But to anyone that knows wtf they are doing there is no difference.

Jeffblue · 12-28-2011, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

indeed, an a-hole making a left turn is what destroyed my car a month ago. I agree with almost all you're saying. Except, that higher hp cars are still more difficult to handle than lower hp cars. Even at partial throttle, a car with a bigger engine will still be delivering more torque to the wheels than a car with a smaller engine assuming the same throttle position. More torque delivered to the wheels increases the chances of power oversteer. Especially with a car like a corvette or a viper that produces a lot of torque even at very low rpm.

what you are saying makes sense, but we are human and we can adapt. If you have to push your gas pedal down 3/4 of the way in a corolla to get it to move, you don't get in a viper and do the same thing. obviously if you give the same amount of gas in a higher hp/larger displacement car it will produce more power at a lower rpm. But as i said, we can adapt.

i just recently reflashed my 335, and now its probably got about 100 more lbft of torque at the wheels at 2500 rpm. So if i press the gas the same way i used to to gingerly get off the line, it's going to put down a lot more power. so i just give it less throttle. i have no problems driving it just as slow as i used to even with the added power. it really should be no problem to drive a fast car slowly, just don't put your foot down as much.

Red__Zed · 12-28-2011, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

it comes with a little bit of understeer. corvettes have quite a bit of oversteer. for driving on the road, a understeer is more predictable and easier to handle than oversteer. especially when traction is low and the road is slippery.

no. they still understeer, just not horrendously.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

never driven a z06, or any other rwd car for that matter. but i'd say the z is better balanced and better handling than the corvette.BASED ON WHAT? it comes from the factory with a hint of understeer, and you can cure that on the track with a bit of throttle to push it into neutral. so on the road, unless you do something stupid like hard throttle on a slippery road, you won't get the snap oversteer and fishtailing you can get with corvettes. keep the vdc on when it's raining or snowing and you'll be fine.

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