Lots of wrecked Z's...

Pharmacist · 12-28-2011, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

better balance + better handling = better daily driver?

if you are fretting accidental power oversteer, you shouldn't be trusted with pointy objects, much less a car

Do you realize the context of this thread? The OP is talking about daily driving on the street, not on the track. Balance and handling in this context is not taking a corner at 1 g and clipping the apex. It's things like emergency lane change manoeuver, emergency braking, taking sharp right angle corners on rain, dust, or even snow covered roads, ease of driving even when the driver is not focused 100%, etc. Yes, power oversteer is a concern when driving on the street. Everyone says it can be managed with an experienced driver, and yes that's true. But the point is still it's more difficult to manage a more powerful car than a less powerful car as a daily driver.

UNKNOWN_370 · 12-28-2011, 12:54 PM

We're a small community. The accident count is amplified by our low numbers on the road. Let's say 20,000 out of 200,000 camaros have been in an accident. That's 10% of all camaros.
But 3000 out of 30000 Z had accidents. Though the ratio of accidents is the same. The impact is felt greater from the lower numbers. So 180k people haven't gotten into accidents vs only 27k Z's that haven't gotten into accidents. Its a play on numbers. People are getting into accidents because there a lot of stupid drivers on the road.
Don't even think about it. Before I got my first Z I was scared of the same crap. And I was scared I would get in a wreck based on the car. You know what happened. I got into my first wreck ever in over 20 years of driving. But all this forum reading made me nervous over it and boom. Bad karma. Now I just don't even give a sh1t just like before. And lifes good.

Pharmacist · 12-28-2011, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

A totally controllable "wiggle" in a forward-biased car is not instability under braking. Try hard braking on a car with a lot of rear weight and then come back and talk about braking instability!

I never mentioned a lot of rear weight. Obviously rear weight bias is also undesirable. My point was that a near 50/50 weight balance is better under braking in low traction condition than a very front-heavy car.

Red__Zed · 12-28-2011, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

Do you realize the context of this thread? The OP is talking about daily driving on the street, not on the track. Balance and handling in this context is not taking a corner at 1 g and clipping the apex. It's things like emergency lane change manoeuver, emergency braking, taking sharp right angle corners on rain, dust, or even snow covered roads, ease of driving even when the driver is not focused 100%, etc. Yes, power oversteer is a concern when driving on the street. Everyone says it can be managed with an experienced driver, and yes that's true. But the point is still it's more difficult to manage a more powerful car than a less powerful car as a daily driver.

better "balance" and "handling" do not translate to better street manners. You are using the wrong words if you are trying to talk about the car's response to road situations.

m4a1mustang · 12-28-2011, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

Do you realize the context of this thread? The OP is talking about daily driving on the street, not on the track. Balance and handling in this context is not taking a corner at 1 g and clipping the apex. It's things like emergency lane change manoeuver, emergency braking, taking sharp right angle corners on rain, dust, or even snow covered roads, ease of driving even when the driver is not focused 100%, etc. Yes, power oversteer is a concern when driving on the street. Everyone says it can be managed with an experienced driver, and yes that's true. But the point is still it's more difficult to manage a more powerful car than a less powerful car as a daily driver.

Maybe for a driver with limited RWD experience.

Red__Zed · 12-28-2011, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

We're a small community. The accident count is amplified by our low numbers on the road. Let's say 20,000 out of 200,000 camaros have been in an accident. That's 10% of all camaros.
But 3000 out of 30000 Z had accidents. Though the ratio of accidents is the same. The impact is felt greater from the lower numbers. So 180k people haven't gotten into accidents vs only 27k Z's that haven't gotten into accidents. Its a play on numbers. People are getting into accidents because there a lot of stupid drivers on the road.

Please expand on your logic here.

m4a1mustang · 12-28-2011, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

I never mentioned a lot of rear weight. Obviously rear weight bias is also undesirable. My point was that a near 50/50 weight balance is better under braking in low traction condition than a very front-heavy car.

Well if that was your point you didn't do a very good job arguing it initially.

I still like to go back to what started this all, which is the fact that I was dumbfounded by your claim to be able to assess the superiority of one RWD car when you have never, ever, ever driven another RWD car in your life. It just doesn't make any sense.

roplusbee · 12-28-2011, 12:59 PM

This thread is full of awesome. I am in the middle of Afghanistan laughing my A$$ off and the guys in the tent/shelter with me are wondering WTF is wrong with me. You guys my my deployment better just now!

m4a1mustang · 12-28-2011, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

Please expand on your logic here.

I get what he's trying to say, but it is a moot point unless we actually have real numbers to compare. And then the only way to compare is as a % of ownership, so total units doesn't really matter.

m4a1mustang · 12-28-2011, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roplusbee

This thread is full of awesome. I am in the middle of Afghanistan laughing my A$$ off and the guys in the tent/shelter with me are wondering WTF is wrong with me. You guys my my deployment better just now!

Stay safe bro

Jeffblue · 12-28-2011, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

Do you realize the context of this thread? The OP is talking about daily driving on the street, not on the track. Balance and handling in this context is not taking a corner at 1 g and clipping the apex. It's things like emergency lane change manoeuver, emergency braking, taking sharp right angle corners on rain, dust, or even snow covered roads, ease of driving even when the driver is not focused 100%, etc. Yes, power oversteer is a concern when driving on the street. Everyone says it can be managed with an experienced driver, and yes that's true. But the point is still it's more difficult to manage a more powerful car than a less powerful car as a daily driver.

If the 'situation' you are in really requires you to have a high performance sports car to avoid an accident, you really need to be paying more attention. the handling characteristcs of your car shouldn't play into your ability to avoid an accident. for gods sake... pay attention. the 370z's handling/braking abilities that it has over a, corolla, are not enough to save you in a bad situation. Sports cars don't handle and brake well to avoid accidents.

with your logic, any fast accelerating car is designed to out run a runaway truck, brake before hitting children as you speed through a school zone, and able to swerve to avoid hitting cute puppies.

what is the most powerful car you have driven?

Pharmacist · 12-28-2011, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffblue

really? i thought this thread was actually about why so many people crash their Zs.

lets face it... none of this talk about handling,brake or weight bias, engine placement, horsepower etc really matters or is relevant to this thread. someone who will crash their g35 coupe into a tree would do the same thing in any car, it really doesn't matter. none of this talk about how a car behaves at the brink has anything to do with avoiding accidents. None of the people who post threads about crashing their Z did so at the track. Accidents happen because of a bad sequence of events and/or poor judgement. as far as single car accidents... its usually more the latter, and having more power and a more tail happy car doesn't help, but that has nothing to do with a car being a good daily driver.

if you really want the BEST Daily driver car, its probably going to be something in the 200-350hp range with awd. none of the cars we are talking about in this thread are really daily driver cars. Yes, you can drive them every day, but they aren't meant to get you to work rain or shine.

partially true. the point though was the OP was originally concerned if there were any sinister handling characteristics of the 370z that lead to so many people crashing them. i told him that there isn't anything to worry about and the z might even be easier and friendlier to drive than a z06. That is the statement that triggered the whole back and forth going on right now

Pharmacist · 12-28-2011, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

better "balance" and "handling" do not translate to better street manners. You are using the wrong words if you are trying to talk about the car's response to road situations.

ok, if semantics are bothing you so much, lets call it "street manners"

Alchemy · 12-28-2011, 01:03 PM

Its down to the driver. If you can drive and are comfortable behind the wheel of your car everything will be fine. I drove my Z home yesterday in the pouring rain and at a pace faster than all the other people on the road. I got home safe and the car is in one piece. Pretty much the only way that situation has a dif outcome is if some other a hole, not in control of his vehicle, hit me.

Red__Zed · 12-28-2011, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

partially true. the point though was the OP was originally concerned if there were any sinister handling characteristics of the 370z that lead to so many people crashing them. i told him that there isn't anything to worry about and the z might even be easier and friendlier to drive than a z06. That is the statement that triggered the whole back and forth going on right now

nope, it was this one:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

never driven a z06, or any other rwd car for that matter. but i'd say the z is better balanced and better handling than the corvette. .

12-28-2011, 12:59 PM	#98 (permalink)
roplusbee A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Killeen, TX Posts: 2,360 Drives: 2007 350Z NISMO Rep Power: 23	This thread is full of awesome. I am in the middle of Afghanistan laughing my A$$ off and the guys in the tent/shelter with me are wondering WTF is wrong with me. You guys my my deployment better just now! __________________ 2007 350Z NISMO #0618: Zerolift \| UPREV \| F.I. \| Greddy \| Competition Clutch \| Injector Dynamics \| Aeromotive \| Pioneer \| JL

12-28-2011, 01:03 PM	#104 (permalink)
Alchemy A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Jersey Age: 45 Posts: 4,855 Drives: to acquire tickets Rep Power: 3524	Its down to the driver. If you can drive and are comfortable behind the wheel of your car everything will be fine. I drove my Z home yesterday in the pouring rain and at a pace faster than all the other people on the road. I got home safe and the car is in one piece. Pretty much the only way that situation has a dif outcome is if some other a hole, not in control of his vehicle, hit me. __________________ Ryan 314WHP \| 260LB-FT \| STILLEN \| KONI \| SWIFT \| STOPTECH \| Z1 \| PROJECT MU \| CNT \| UPREV \| FORGESTAR \| BRIDGESTONE \| PWJDM \| ENEOS \| MOTUL

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12-28-2011, 12:54 PM	#92 (permalink)
UNKNOWN_370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: ny'r livn in tx Posts: 8,687 Drives: well over 130m.p.h. Rep Power: 14858	We're a small community. The accident count is amplified by our low numbers on the road. Let's say 20,000 out of 200,000 camaros have been in an accident. That's 10% of all camaros. But 3000 out of 30000 Z had accidents. Though the ratio of accidents is the same. The impact is felt greater from the lower numbers. So 180k people haven't gotten into accidents vs only 27k Z's that haven't gotten into accidents. Its a play on numbers. People are getting into accidents because there a lot of stupid drivers on the road. Don't even think about it. Before I got my first Z I was scared of the same crap. And I was scared I would get in a wreck based on the car. You know what happened. I got into my first wreck ever in over 20 years of driving. But all this forum reading made me nervous over it and boom. Bad karma. Now I just don't even give a sh1t just like before. And lifes good.