Oil Overheat IMPORTANT UPDATE

chubbs · 05-14-2009, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCal 370Z

My motivations are probably different that others here as my concern is with my wife driving it with her elderly parents.

Who goes in the trunk, Grandma or Grandpa?

ocfoilist · 05-14-2009, 12:41 PM

I just returned from a weekend trip from Los Angeles to Lake Tahoe, going up the back side of Cali via the 395. Without any kind of "enthusiastic" driving, my oil temp hit 260 twice on the way up and once on the way back down. My cruise control was on most of the time and it was set to 75.

I am still not certain, however, how improper that temperature is for a car (not having monitored oil temp regularly in the past on my 350z). I wasn't flooring it nor was I excessively speeding to generate that temp, but it only happened 3 times and it dropped back down within 2-3 minutes. On the two times up to Tahoe, it occurred while going up a hill and on the way back it was on a very gradual gradient.

But what exactly does that mean for the car? I'm assuming, based on the previous posts, that these three brief bursts into 260 will not damage the car and it did not seem to affect performance. What exactly is "normal" and when do temperature spikes become a "problem" for a car? How frequently do would they have to happen and how long "should" they take to dissipate? I understand about what triggers the "limp wrist" mode, but I haven't gotten anywhere close to that. Temperatures were pushing 94 degrees on the drive and it took 8 hours. So I'm more concerned about the 240-270 range and what means to a car over its lifetime.

I intend to track this car from time to time, so I will be forced to add an oil cooler regardless. The overwhelming feedback has been that a full 20-25 minute run on the track - much less an entire day - is pretty much impossible without one. But I am also interested in what is, or should be, considered "normal" conditions off the track. Emotional opinions about Nissan knowingly releasing a sports car that overheats on the the track aside, does anyone have any engineering perspective on this?

wstar · 05-14-2009, 12:53 PM

260 is the point where I worry. It shouldn't cause immediate harm of any kind, but over the long term if you're hitting 260+ on any kind of regular basis, it's got to affect both oil life and engine life. 280 is a level I consider totally unacceptable. If I ever saw my needle about to hit 280, I'd stop doing whatever I was doing (in your case, apparently going up a mountain in 95 degree weather), and pull over and pop the hood (but leave the engine running!) to get it cooled back down if necessary. I don't plan on ever allowing my car to reach limp-mode if I can help it.

ChrisSlicks · 05-14-2009, 12:56 PM

My opinion is that under normal highway driving the oil temp should remain between 180-230 degrees, this gives you the headroom for the spirited driving the car is advertised as supplying. The fact that you hit 260 with cruise on scares me as this just shouldn't happen unless you're climbing a mountain.

As far as engine damage, there is non likely for brief spike to 260. Sustained temps of 260 and above are a serious concern for the bearings and could drastically shorten their life.

wstar · 05-14-2009, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisSlicks

The fact that you hit 260 with cruise on scares me as this just shouldn't happen unless you're climbing a mountain.

I'm pretty sure he was basically climbing a mountain, on that route. I haven't driven it myself, but it sounds like it. Lake Tahoe is nearly a mile higher in the sky than Los Angeles, and it was an 8 hour drive with lots of ups and down I assume.

ocfoilist · 05-14-2009, 01:13 PM

Ironically, the times that I hit 260 were not steep climbs but rather more gradual inclines. It seemed that trying to sustain 75 or so over a longer, but flatter, increase in elevation is what bothered the car more. I was surprised, however, at how quickly the temp changed from the 220-230 range up to 260 during that time. I would say that within approximately 2-3 minutes the oil temp had jumped 35 degrees or so. But, to be fair, it did seem to drop back down pretty quickly once I was on level ground again.

SoCal 370Z · 05-14-2009, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ocfoilist

Ironically, the times that I hit 260 were not steep climbs but rather more gradual inclines. It seemed that trying to sustain 75 or so over a longer, but flatter, increase in elevation is what bothered the car more. I was surprised, however, at how quickly the temp changed from the 220-230 range up to 260 during that time. I would say that within approximately 2-3 minutes the oil temp had jumped 35 degrees or so. But, to be fair, it did seem to drop back down pretty quickly once I was on level ground again.

Interesting. There is a highway that is perfect for this test: Interstate 8 between San Diego and Yuma. Going to Yuma it has the long uphills, and returning its has windy elevated upgrades. It has the heat coming from Imperial Valley. Has anyone tried this route? Thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chubbs

Who goes in the trunk, Grandma or Grandpa?

One stands by the side of the road, while other rides.

In2Deep · 05-14-2009, 02:28 PM

I lived in CA for many years, and pulled a pretty big BOAT up the steep grade going North from Mono Lake -- and never once saw an oil temp like that in a large 4x4 SUV.
Different vehicle, different purpose -- but that type of temp in a LIGHT car with a powerful motor....just doesn't seem right.

Lug · 05-14-2009, 03:20 PM

Anyone suspecting that the a thermostat change might help here? The rapid cooling suggests something other than just air balancing going on here. Perhaps a lower temp thermostat might help alleviate the delta in oil temp.

wstar · 05-14-2009, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lug

Anyone suspecting that the a thermostat change might help here? The rapid cooling suggests something other than just air balancing going on here. Perhaps a lower temp thermostat might help alleviate the delta in oil temp.

I doubt it, honestly. The thermo on our cars is fully opened up before we even begin to see oil temp problems, and stays that way throughout the oil heatup / cooldown process.

antennahead · 05-14-2009, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alan93rsa

Not to be overly negative: Prior to retiring I worked as an engineer investigating claims. I was always interested in the problem and made sure the customer new I felt that way. However, the bottom line was if the product met the standard for it's intended use the claim was denied. Frequently I could see their point of view but the material was good for the intended use. That is where the great sea of grey area emerges.

And that is why the people with the day to day issues will be key to solving this issue. If one mentions track in their conversations with Nissan their listening level will be turned down if not off.

I agree, and anyone dealing with Nissan about this should be discussing their temps on the "road" under normal to spirited driving conditions. It is a sports car, and they would be crazy to assume people won't enjoy it for what it's intended for within the legal limits. Start talking "track" temps and you probably won't get a lot of support. Besides, there are enough of us here that have driven in 90 degree weather now that can support high temps from limited spirited driving. Two minutes of fun, not exceeding 5500 RPM, followed by bumper to bumper rush hour traffic and I hit 260...... not good. In July and August with any hard driving at all I bet it climbs higher.

John

frost · 05-14-2009, 10:51 PM

:subscribed:

Forrest · 05-15-2009, 03:02 AM

Digital Thermastat on car said it was 79degree's outside.
driving 59 mph grandma style puts my oil temp at 210. All straight, 2 minor hills.

This high or no?

jimClark53 · 05-15-2009, 05:21 AM

Well look on the bright side, things could be worse
maybe we are lucky the new gt3 doesn't have Direct Injection... - Rennlist Discussion Forums

I have found a fix for this, once its re-engineered into a ROLEX wacth style instrument and re-priced it will be suitable.
Look at - REDeX LUBROCHARGER MK11 FULL KIT in below link
Redex Products Norwood Parade Auto Spares open 7 days www.derek.com.au

TheWeatherman · 05-15-2009, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimClark53

Well look on the bright side, things could be worse
maybe we are lucky the new gt3 doesn't have Direct Injection... - Rennlist Discussion Forums

I have found a fix for this, once its re-engineered into a ROLEX wacth style instrument and re-priced it will be suitable.
Look at - REDeX LUBROCHARGER MK11 FULL KIT in below link
Redex Products Norwood Parade Auto Spares open 7 days www.derek.com.au

See, they're actually really good sports over on the Porsche board. They're not saying "Free" or "Lemon." They're just asking, "How do we fix it?" That should be our atittude. They're actually laughing at the Germans! That problem is way more serious than having to put an oil cooler on our cars. I agree with you Jim. Nissan will get it right.

05-14-2009, 12:41 PM	#62 (permalink)
ocfoilist Base Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 202 Drives: 09 Blue 6m 370zT/S/N Rep Power: 16	I just returned from a weekend trip from Los Angeles to Lake Tahoe, going up the back side of Cali via the 395. Without any kind of "enthusiastic" driving, my oil temp hit 260 twice on the way up and once on the way back down. My cruise control was on most of the time and it was set to 75. I am still not certain, however, how improper that temperature is for a car (not having monitored oil temp regularly in the past on my 350z). I wasn't flooring it nor was I excessively speeding to generate that temp, but it only happened 3 times and it dropped back down within 2-3 minutes. On the two times up to Tahoe, it occurred while going up a hill and on the way back it was on a very gradual gradient. But what exactly does that mean for the car? I'm assuming, based on the previous posts, that these three brief bursts into 260 will not damage the car and it did not seem to affect performance. What exactly is "normal" and when do temperature spikes become a "problem" for a car? How frequently do would they have to happen and how long "should" they take to dissipate? I understand about what triggers the "limp wrist" mode, but I haven't gotten anywhere close to that. Temperatures were pushing 94 degrees on the drive and it took 8 hours. So I'm more concerned about the 240-270 range and what means to a car over its lifetime. I intend to track this car from time to time, so I will be forced to add an oil cooler regardless. The overwhelming feedback has been that a full 20-25 minute run on the track - much less an entire day - is pretty much impossible without one. But I am also interested in what is, or should be, considered "normal" conditions off the track. Emotional opinions about Nissan knowingly releasing a sports car that overheats on the the track aside, does anyone have any engineering perspective on this? __________________ Proud owner of a new 167.2 inch, 3278 lb baby Z! Stillen CBE & G3 Intake // Stillen Lightweight pulley // Stillen Oil Cooler // Goodridge Braided Stainless Steel Brake Lines // ACT HDSS Clutch& Alum Flywheel

05-14-2009, 12:53 PM	#63 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3594	260 is the point where I worry. It shouldn't cause immediate harm of any kind, but over the long term if you're hitting 260+ on any kind of regular basis, it's got to affect both oil life and engine life. 280 is a level I consider totally unacceptable. If I ever saw my needle about to hit 280, I'd stop doing whatever I was doing (in your case, apparently going up a mountain in 95 degree weather), and pull over and pop the hood (but leave the engine running!) to get it cooled back down if necessary. I don't plan on ever allowing my car to reach limp-mode if I can help it. __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

05-14-2009, 01:13 PM	#66 (permalink)
ocfoilist Base Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 202 Drives: 09 Blue 6m 370zT/S/N Rep Power: 16	Ironically, the times that I hit 260 were not steep climbs but rather more gradual inclines. It seemed that trying to sustain 75 or so over a longer, but flatter, increase in elevation is what bothered the car more. I was surprised, however, at how quickly the temp changed from the 220-230 range up to 260 during that time. I would say that within approximately 2-3 minutes the oil temp had jumped 35 degrees or so. But, to be fair, it did seem to drop back down pretty quickly once I was on level ground again. __________________ Proud owner of a new 167.2 inch, 3278 lb baby Z! Stillen CBE & G3 Intake // Stillen Lightweight pulley // Stillen Oil Cooler // Goodridge Braided Stainless Steel Brake Lines // ACT HDSS Clutch& Alum Flywheel

05-14-2009, 02:28 PM	#68 (permalink)
In2Deep Base Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Austin Posts: 48 Drives: Plat Graphite Spt/Tr Rep Power: 16	I lived in CA for many years, and pulled a pretty big BOAT up the steep grade going North from Mono Lake -- and never once saw an oil temp like that in a large 4x4 SUV. Different vehicle, different purpose -- but that type of temp in a LIGHT car with a powerful motor....just doesn't seem right. __________________ ...and now a message from our sponsors

05-14-2009, 03:20 PM	#69 (permalink)
Lug A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 1,926 Drives: 2006 350Z Rep Power: 19	Anyone suspecting that the a thermostat change might help here? The rapid cooling suggests something other than just air balancing going on here. Perhaps a lower temp thermostat might help alleviate the delta in oil temp. __________________ keep Chubbs in your pocket - Chubbs

05-14-2009, 12:56 PM	#64 (permalink)
ChrisSlicks A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: North East Posts: 6,203 Drives: 09 370Z Sport M6 Rep Power: 653	My opinion is that under normal highway driving the oil temp should remain between 180-230 degrees, this gives you the headroom for the spirited driving the car is advertised as supplying. The fact that you hit 260 with cruise on scares me as this just shouldn't happen unless you're climbing a mountain. As far as engine damage, there is non likely for brief spike to 260. Sustained temps of 260 and above are a serious concern for the bearings and could drastically shorten their life.

05-14-2009, 10:51 PM	#72 (permalink)
frost Retired admin Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Winterfell Posts: 106,613 Drives: Your Wife Crazy Rep Power: 0	:subscribed:

05-15-2009, 03:02 AM	#73 (permalink)
Forrest Track Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: california 707! Posts: 677 Drives: 09 370z Blk 6mt sprt Rep Power: 258	Digital Thermastat on car said it was 79degree's outside. driving 59 mph grandma style puts my oil temp at 210. All straight, 2 minor hills. This high or no?

05-15-2009, 05:21 AM	#74 (permalink)
jimClark53 Base Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: uk Posts: 7 Drives: Ford Anglia TC Rep Power: 16	Well look on the bright side, things could be worse maybe we are lucky the new gt3 doesn't have Direct Injection... - Rennlist Discussion Forums I have found a fix for this, once its re-engineered into a ROLEX wacth style instrument and re-priced it will be suitable. Look at - REDeX LUBROCHARGER MK11 FULL KIT in below link Redex Products Norwood Parade Auto Spares open 7 days www.derek.com.au

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