How has your 370Z held up?

cossie1600 · 10-29-2011, 06:49 PM

Nissan's service is horrible. You have a better chance to seeing god than to get them to pay for an intermittent problem

ImportConvert · 10-29-2011, 07:09 PM

Okay, I looked at a few pix of 370Z's on racks on yahoo (mostly exhaust installs).

I did not see any rust that concerned me. Anyone else have info/pix? The whole underside of my Z06 was sprayed with what looks like truck-bed liner from the factory. Keeps out the exhaust/dead skunk/water/whatever very nicely. Nissan does what?

KaienZ34 · 10-29-2011, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

Wow!

Anyone else look under their car to see if the components mentioned are rusting crazily? Also, when you say "suspension components", I thought the 370Z had forged aluminum suspension components? Could this be corrosion/salt exposure (VA)?

While what you mention is scary, rust is often self-limiting and there are MANY old mustangs from the 60's with a rusted rear axle that are doing just fine. Can you further elaborate on what rusts?

Your car had serious issues, but I cannot believe you got anything but a lemon. If that were a typical experience...wow.

If you want to pm me your cell # i just went take a few pics i can text them to you. I'm posting from my phone so it's a real pain to up load pics to the forum with it.

ImportConvert · 10-29-2011, 07:23 PM

Wait...Red_Zed...

You said that you replaced the rusted parts yourself. Are you referring to the slender black X-brace rear and single-brace front?

If so, yeah, it's just paint, and yeah, it will rust. For a comparison, the control-arms on my G20 look similarly painted, etc. and I bet are even a similar alloy. Yes, when scraped they rust a bit, but I bet unless I drove it through salt every day it would be fine. If not, it does look like an easy fix as you noted. Pull them, spray with truck-bed liner, replace, done.

Was it some other component you meant?

As to the orange peal. Dude. I own a 'vette. Orange-peal is LITERALLY part of the "feature" on that car (No, I am not kidding, the clear is purposefully sprayed so thick that on the SMC panels near the bases it ALLLLMOST runs. This is by spec, and it makes for a car that doesn't chip like a 370Z, but it's not "pretty" like the Z's paint, either. Hence my desire to wrap the hell out of it. No, this is not GM marketing BS. I was at the plant and observed in detail.)

ImportConvert · 10-29-2011, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KaienZ34

If you want to pm me your cell # i just went take a few pics i can text them to you. I'm posting from my phone so it's a real pain to up load pics to the forum with it.

PM sent, but I am off to work, replies will be delayed possibly. Saving lives and all that.

Gunzero · 10-29-2011, 07:24 PM

i have an '09 that rattles on the front, right side of the car. don't know what it is, but it's annoying as hell.

KaienZ34 · 10-29-2011, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

PM sent, but I am off to work, replies will be delayed possibly. Saving lives and all that.

No problem, my wife is a nurse and i completely understand.

Red__Zed · 10-29-2011, 08:13 PM

Yeah. Like I said in my post, my experience was not typical and I don't expect most owners to deal with those issues...most people usually get one or two of them.

There is almost no coating on anything underneath the car, at least on the ones I have seen.

The va weather is admittedly different, but the z did not see salted roads at all.

When I'm back on a computer, I can post up some underbody pics.
The xbrace, etc was not a major concern, but axles, hubs, frame, etc were.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

Wow!

Anyone else look under their car to see if the components mentioned are rusting crazily? Also, when you say "suspension components", I thought the 370Z had forged aluminum suspension components? Could this be corrosion/salt exposure (VA)?

While what you mention is scary, rust is often self-limiting and there are MANY old mustangs from the 60's with a rusted rear axle that are doing just fine. Can you further elaborate on what rusts?

Your car had serious issues, but I cannot believe you got anything but a lemon. If that were a typical experience...wow.

Pharmacist · 10-29-2011, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

Purchased the car in July of 2010. Installed clearbra, etc. 72 miles on the clock, already on it's second transmission due to 5th gear synchro issues.

Two months into ownership, back to dealer to repaint due to orange peel. Passenger quarter panel is completely redone, as is driver fender. Whole car needed it, but Nissan refused.

One week after getting the car back, brake master cylinder failed on the highway. Lost pedal pressure, etc. Coasted to a stop. Dropped at dealer, was replaced. NNA rep test drove my after my previous issues (they care about life-threatening problems), and complained about the trans. Got me on the list for (another) replacement. Showed him the paint issues, he got me in for a full body repaint as well, with NNA covering the new clear bra.

Dropped the car off, got everything addressed. Nissan had the clearbra installed before the paint cured, which required (another) front end repaint. Minor mistake, no biggie. While in the shop for this, clutch master failed. Replaced under warranty. Brake master was replaced (again) due to developing a "clicking" sound, similar to the last time it failed. I never saw either issue, and really hadn't driven the car, only the Nissan guys had even driven the new master cylinder.

About this time, the headliner rattle was enough that they couldn't stand it, so they pulled the car/dash apart looking for it and the other rattles. Never got it fixed.

Also got them to look at the underside of the car, had quite a few parts replaced.

Spent a lot of time talking to the NNA rep, who basically told me to get rid of the car. NNA policy allowed for 1.4999QTs/ 2k miles with no replacement option (I did not have oil consumption). The policy on the synchro issue was to deny. The policy on the whine in 1-4 was to deny. The policy for the "marbles" was to deny. Policy on orange peel was to deny. He told me that the underbody rust was a known issue, but the parts were good for the warranty period, so they didn't really care This was honestly one of my biggest concerns...the suspension components that hold the car together are incredibly prone to rust. I had my new parts delivered to me before install, where I coated them myself to ensure no problems for me.

Went ahead and bought the subaru to have a reliable car in case the Z went out again (Nissan would not provide me with a rental since I was not 25). Put the Z away, and put it up for sale...obviously had difficulty moving it. Carmax offered me 22k on a 39k MSRP vehicle I had bought 3 months before, explaining that the known transmission issues with the car had tanked it's resale value.

After not driving it for most of the winter, I decided to give the car another go. I bolted on some more parts, and was relatively happy with the car. The headliner rattle was the only things that was really killing it for me, but next to my s2k's rattles I didn't even care. Started getting the trans issues again, with 5th gear locking out and refusing to go in. Decided to tough it out and keep going. Dealt with (another) brake failure, this time almost hitting the car in front of me. Put the car up for sale again, again no bites.

Moved down to alabama, and thought things would be pretty solid since the trans acted better in warm weather. Left the subie in va, and brought the Z down to bama. On the cruise down, I was pretty settled that I would keep the Z, drop in a real diff and some brakes, and enjoy the car....unfortunately, Nissan had other things in mind. Orange peel cropped up on the only part of the car the apparently hadn't repainted (the hood). Nissan refused to cover the repaint and blamed it on the dealer in VA, even though they hadn't painted it. Sent in trans and diff samples to blackstone, who basically confirmed my suspicion that the diff was overheating in daily driving and would likely grenade itself before long. Showed the issue to NNA-- rep agreed the temps were a problem, Nissan changed the diff fluid.

No dice.

Changed the diff fluid again. No help.

NNA provided me with a pumpkin from an SP car, which, aside from showing off what garbage the VLSD is, did not help.

Nissan finally offered to extend my warranty on the diff out to 100k, which I accepted and moved on. The problem was noted as a "known potential issue", but since only a small percentage of driver had experienced failure, there was no need to issue a fix. I had previously confirmed the broadness of the problem by checking diff temps when we ran the dragon....not a single person had a diff within an acceptable range at the end of a run... and I don't mean 5C out of acceptable.

When my brake master started clicking again, I decided to get rid of the car, because that's a terrifying issue once. It's a lot less fun again.

I know my experience was not typical, but it is still what I dealt with. I experienced the car as an absolute POS from a reliability standpoint, and from a construction standpoint. Throughout this, I think the CPS was replaced twice, and I experienced the throttle tip-in issues despite getting reflashed quite a few times.

wow, sounds like you had one heck of a lemon. your experience is definitely a freak occurrence. none of the problems listed are common. sounds like you had that 1 out of every 10000 cars that just wasn't manufactured right from the beginning. why didn't you just lemon law the car and get nissan to replace it with another z?

Also, I'm curious as to what carmax means by "known transmission problems"? and what do you mean about differentials overheating? There are many members here who daily drive the z and some who regularly track it. I do both very often. Yet our cars are holding up just fine. Yes, the transmission is a bit clunky, not exactly audi or bmw buttery smooth. And yeah, vlsd isn't as good as a clutch based lsd. but there haven't been any breakdowns or drivetrain failures. I personally swapped out the crappy gearbox and diff oils for redline synthetic oils. Maybe that helps. Not sure

Regarding the rust, it's normal there will be minor surface rust underneath every car out there. it's no big deal. unless the rust was excessive and compromised the strength of the subframes, there wasn't anything out of the ordinary on your car. how bad was the rust? any pics?

ImportConvert · 10-29-2011, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

wow, sounds like you had one heck of a lemon. your experience is definitely a freak occurrence. none of the problems listed are common. sounds like you had that 1 out of every 10000 cars that just wasn't manufactured right from the beginning. why didn't you just lemon law the car and get nissan to replace it with another z?

Also, I'm curious as to what carmax means by "known transmission problems"? and what do you mean about differentials overheating? There are many members here who daily drive the z and some who regularly track it. I do both very often. Yet our cars are holding up just fine. Yes, the transmission is a bit clunky, not exactly audi or bmw buttery smooth. And yeah, vlsd isn't as good as a clutch based lsd. but there haven't been any breakdowns or drivetrain failures. I personally swapped out the crappy gearbox and diff oils for redline synthetic oils. Maybe that helps. Not sure

Regarding the rust, it's normal there will be minor surface rust underneath every car out there. it's no big deal. unless the rust was excessive and compromised the strength of the subframes, there wasn't anything out of the ordinary on your car. how bad was the rust? any pics?

How does the vlsd work? Is it a worm gear setup?

Red__Zed · 10-29-2011, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

How does the vlsd work? Is it a worm gear setup?

Viscous fluid. Anyone that actually runs the car will switch to a clutch or helical(Torsen/worm) diff

ImportConvert · 10-29-2011, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

Viscous fluid. Anyone that actually runs the car will switch to a clutch or helical(Torsen/worm) diff

Never had a car with one of those. Function similar to an automatics tq converter?

cossie1600 · 10-29-2011, 10:00 PM

It's the oil breaking down, turning hard. I thought it was shaving at first, but there was nothing hard and brittle on it. It's just nasty old sludge, think stepping into a pile of donkey poop that is nice and moist.

Viscous
Nissan 240SX Viscous LSD

The viscous type is generally simpler because it relies on hydrodynamic friction from fluids with high viscosity. Silicone-based oils are often used. Here, a cylindrical chamber of fluid filled with a stack of perforated discs rotates with the normal motion of the output shafts. The inside surface of the chamber is coupled to one of the driveshafts, and the outside coupled to the differential carrier. Half of the discs are connected to the inner, the other half to the outer, alternating inner/outer in the stack. Differential motion forces the interleaved discs to move through the fluid against each other. In some viscous couplings when speed is maintained the fluid will accumulate heat due to friction. This heat will cause the fluid to expand, and expand the coupler causing the discs to be pulled together resulting in a non-viscous plate to plate friction and a dramatic drop in speed difference. This is known as the hump phenomenon and it allows the side of the coupler to gently lock. In contrast to the mechanical type, the limiting action is much softer and more proportional to the slip, and so is easier to cope with for the average driver. New Process Gear used a viscous coupling of the Ferguson style in several of their transfer cases including those used in the AMC Eagle.

Viscous LSDs are less efficient than mechanical types, that is, they "lose" some power. In particular, any sustained load which overheats the silicone results in sudden permanent loss of the differential effect.[4] They do have the virtue of failing gracefully, reverting to semi-open differential behaviour. Typically a visco-differential that has covered 60,000 miles (97,000 km) or more will be functioning largely as an open differential;[citation needed] this is a known weakness of the original Mazda MX-5 (a.k.a. Miata) sports car. The silicone oil is factory sealed in a separate chamber from the gear oil surrounding the rest of the differential. This is not serviceable and when the differential's behaviour deteriorates, the VLSD centre is replaced.

ImportConvert · 10-29-2011, 10:18 PM

So basically, it dies at 60k miles regardless? How easy is replacement? Does it necessitate removing or adjusting the ring / pinion any, or is it total drop in. Most higher mileage z's are "open" now?

cossie1600 · 10-29-2011, 10:45 PM

If you want to replace it, you just replace the viscous unit inside the pumpkin. Of course it is probably cheaper to get something else. The viscous unit is sealed inside the pumpkin, changing the diff fluid doesn't really change it.

10-29-2011, 07:24 PM	#96 (permalink)
Gunzero Track Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 889 Drives: Nissan 370z Rep Power: 259	i have an '09 that rattles on the front, right side of the car. don't know what it is, but it's annoying as hell. __________________

10-29-2011, 06:49 PM	#91 (permalink)
cossie1600 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: californee way Posts: 5,380 Drives: 370, Leaf Rep Power: 30	Nissan's service is horrible. You have a better chance to seeing god than to get them to pay for an intermittent problem

10-29-2011, 07:09 PM	#92 (permalink)
ImportConvert A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: SWMO Posts: 4,454 Drives: 2019 CX5 GT Reserve Rep Power: 7627	Okay, I looked at a few pix of 370Z's on racks on yahoo (mostly exhaust installs). I did not see any rust that concerned me. Anyone else have info/pix? The whole underside of my Z06 was sprayed with what looks like truck-bed liner from the factory. Keeps out the exhaust/dead skunk/water/whatever very nicely. Nissan does what?

10-29-2011, 07:23 PM	#94 (permalink)
ImportConvert A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: SWMO Posts: 4,454 Drives: 2019 CX5 GT Reserve Rep Power: 7627	Wait...Red_Zed... You said that you replaced the rusted parts yourself. Are you referring to the slender black X-brace rear and single-brace front? If so, yeah, it's just paint, and yeah, it will rust. For a comparison, the control-arms on my G20 look similarly painted, etc. and I bet are even a similar alloy. Yes, when scraped they rust a bit, but I bet unless I drove it through salt every day it would be fine. If not, it does look like an easy fix as you noted. Pull them, spray with truck-bed liner, replace, done. Was it some other component you meant? As to the orange peal. Dude. I own a 'vette. Orange-peal is LITERALLY part of the "feature" on that car (No, I am not kidding, the clear is purposefully sprayed so thick that on the SMC panels near the bases it ALLLLMOST runs. This is by spec, and it makes for a car that doesn't chip like a 370Z, but it's not "pretty" like the Z's paint, either. Hence my desire to wrap the hell out of it. No, this is not GM marketing BS. I was at the plant and observed in detail.)

10-29-2011, 10:00 PM	#103 (permalink)
cossie1600 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: californee way Posts: 5,380 Drives: 370, Leaf Rep Power: 30	It's the oil breaking down, turning hard. I thought it was shaving at first, but there was nothing hard and brittle on it. It's just nasty old sludge, think stepping into a pile of donkey poop that is nice and moist. Viscous Nissan 240SX Viscous LSD The viscous type is generally simpler because it relies on hydrodynamic friction from fluids with high viscosity. Silicone-based oils are often used. Here, a cylindrical chamber of fluid filled with a stack of perforated discs rotates with the normal motion of the output shafts. The inside surface of the chamber is coupled to one of the driveshafts, and the outside coupled to the differential carrier. Half of the discs are connected to the inner, the other half to the outer, alternating inner/outer in the stack. Differential motion forces the interleaved discs to move through the fluid against each other. In some viscous couplings when speed is maintained the fluid will accumulate heat due to friction. This heat will cause the fluid to expand, and expand the coupler causing the discs to be pulled together resulting in a non-viscous plate to plate friction and a dramatic drop in speed difference. This is known as the hump phenomenon and it allows the side of the coupler to gently lock. In contrast to the mechanical type, the limiting action is much softer and more proportional to the slip, and so is easier to cope with for the average driver. New Process Gear used a viscous coupling of the Ferguson style in several of their transfer cases including those used in the AMC Eagle. Viscous LSDs are less efficient than mechanical types, that is, they "lose" some power. In particular, any sustained load which overheats the silicone results in sudden permanent loss of the differential effect.[4] They do have the virtue of failing gracefully, reverting to semi-open differential behaviour. Typically a visco-differential that has covered 60,000 miles (97,000 km) or more will be functioning largely as an open differential;[citation needed] this is a known weakness of the original Mazda MX-5 (a.k.a. Miata) sports car. The silicone oil is factory sealed in a separate chamber from the gear oil surrounding the rest of the differential. This is not serviceable and when the differential's behaviour deteriorates, the VLSD centre is replaced.

10-29-2011, 10:18 PM	#104 (permalink)
ImportConvert A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: SWMO Posts: 4,454 Drives: 2019 CX5 GT Reserve Rep Power: 7627	So basically, it dies at 60k miles regardless? How easy is replacement? Does it necessitate removing or adjusting the ring / pinion any, or is it total drop in. Most higher mileage z's are "open" now?

10-29-2011, 10:45 PM	#105 (permalink)
cossie1600 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: californee way Posts: 5,380 Drives: 370, Leaf Rep Power: 30	If you want to replace it, you just replace the viscous unit inside the pumpkin. Of course it is probably cheaper to get something else. The viscous unit is sealed inside the pumpkin, changing the diff fluid doesn't really change it.