For those of you who have gotten rid of your 370Z

Red__Zed · 10-12-2011, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PapoZalsa

Not in the one they up ended crashing the Nismo, it had wrong pads. That is the reason it overheated during the test.

Anyway this is just one instance, I know the Z is on the $hit list of almost every magazine out there because of the oil temps and brakes overheating....

True. But even with other pads there have been plenty of issues. Luckily brake ducting is not terribly expensive, just ugly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenchan

yah, i have to agree with #2 for sure. ive yet to find my Z understeering... all i changed was the offset and tires. nothing else. i can turn the car mid-turn with throttle.

i dont do any super tight turns though so i'd change the setup if i was going through cones by adding another 10mm offset in the front.

Just saying, if you've only hit 240 oil temps, it sounds like a more comfortable cruise, rather than testing the limits.

It's important to understand that ability to rotate under throttle doesn't really mean much in the way of implying balance, it's more a function of the power the car has. Guys like me want the car to pretty much drop all four wheels at once when it's getting no input, so we can manipulate it through the turn.

Red__Zed · 10-12-2011, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadoquad

I think the Z's setup is fantastic. It's not square, but it just feels great to approach a corner understeering slightly, then hit the apex and throttle through. The g forces alone are

I could see what Red is saying that if the rear squatted a bit more under throttle, it might escape the corner more quickly, but I'm less concerned with "quick" than I am with "fun"

This is what I've been getting at. Everyone wants something different from the car, and it's helpful to understand what you want from it. The z is an absolute blast to drive for sure.

m4a1mustang · 10-12-2011, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadoquad

I think the Z's setup is fantastic. It's not square, but it just feels great to approach a corner understeering slightly, then hit the apex and throttle through. The g forces alone are

I could see what Red is saying that if the rear squatted a bit more under throttle, it might escape the corner more quickly, but I'm less concerned with "quick" than I am with "fun"

In stock form the Z is fairly safe on entry which is good for a newb or a casual driver, or just someone who likes a very stable rear end (

). It's a point-and-shoot type affair. And if you push too hard you lose front grip first which is easier to control.

I think your last point is key, though. There's no doubt about it that the Z is good fun. I thought it was a great car with some quirks. To be honest, handling was the least of my concerns since I had to deal with the throttle issues... that was the most annoying thing for me. But in general I just had the car for a while and wanted to try something else. And I went about it knowing full well that in the future I might be back with a roadster...

Pharmacist · 10-12-2011, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semtex

Do you have any empirical evidence of this that you can point us to?

Nope. But again, most cars do not have an oil temp gauge. The oil could be cooking and the driver would be none the wiser. The thing is, if the Z did not have limp mode or an oil temp gauge, no one would be whining about an oil temp problem, while they lap the car all day long, melting their bearings in the process. Same with the 335i. If it didn't have limp mode, no one would complain about oil overheating, even before BMW retrofitted oil coolers.

Quote:

When it comes to balance stock-for-stock, the Z has a lot of understeer and the 5.0 is very neutral.

Define " a lot". I have no problem getting the back end around with a bit of throttle. At least on the stock tires. With my AD08, understeer is a bit more prominent, but if i take out 3-4 psi of air from the front tires that deals with most of the problem. There's still a hint of understeer, but throttle application can get rid of that and even induce a spin out.

Also, if the mustang has the same handling as the z, why is it that the v6 mustang, which has the same straightline performance as the z lose out on laptimes? And why is it that the 5.0 GT that blows the z away on a straight line post laptimes about the same or marginally faster than the z? If a mustang is gaining so much time on the straights, it must be losing some time to the z on the corners. Otherwise, the discrepancy in laptimes should be much bigger.

Quote:

Besides that, pretty much every car comes with an air-to-water cooler at the least.

Do base corvettes have an oil cooler? I recall reading somewhere that one of the upgrades that come with the z06 and zr1 over the base vettes are oil coolers.

Pharmacist · 10-12-2011, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarsRfun

Here's my sources for what I stated, Road and Track and Car and Driver:

Sports Car Comparison - 2011 Nissan 370Z vs. 2011 Mitsubishi Lancer Evo GSR - RoadandTrack.com

Best-Handling Car For Less Than $40,000: 370Z vs. Evo, Mustang GT, GTI, Miata, Mini JCW - Feature - Car and Driver

According to Car and Driver the 370z did have braking issues, read the article...it does not have Brembo brakes and No Oil cooler...hard to fathom and this will be corrected in future models.
I own the EVO GSR 5 speed manual...the EVO MR they tested is the automated manual. The GSR is quicker 1/4 mile 13 flat and 0-60 4.3 according to R&T stats listed above. The Z had a slightly quicker lap time in the C&D review but brakes had "the worst brake fade in our standard 5 stop 70-0 mph braking test" distances varied as much as 29 feet even with the Nismo pads...

I wouldnt trade the AWD, Ive owned many rwd sports cars. I want 100% usability in any season as Im a traveling nurse and cant afford not to show up.
Im not saying the Z isnt a great car, it is, but Nissan really dropped the ball for 2009-2011's with the omission of oil cooler and cheaper/inferior brakes.
Most of us dont track our cars and so not really a big issue but in hotter climates such as Texas the limp mode/lack of oil cooler becomes an issue with spirited driving as some posters on this site have said.

I agree with the oil cooler issue. But the Z brakes (which are akebono not brembo) aren't bad. You get very large disc rotors and large 4 piston calipers at the front with 2 piston calipers at the back. Yes, the stock fluid and the stock pads are crap and are cause for much of the fade. But you ALWAYS have to swap pads and fluid for almost any car before doing track duty anyways. You'd be suicidal not to .

m4a1mustang · 10-12-2011, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

Nope. But again, most cars do not have an oil temp gauge. The oil could be cooking and the driver would be none the wiser. The thing is, if the Z did not have limp mode or an oil temp gauge, no one would be whining about an oil temp problem, while they lap the car all day long, melting their bearings in the process. Same with the 335i. If it didn't have limp mode, no one would complain about oil overheating, even before BMW retrofitted oil coolers.

Define " a lot". I have no problem getting the back end around with a bit of throttle. At least on the stock tires. With my AD08, understeer is a bit more prominent, but if i take out 3-4 psi of air from the front tires that deals with most of the problem. There's still a hint of understeer, but throttle application can get rid of that and even induce a spin out.

Also, if the mustang has the same handling as the z, why is it that the v6 mustang, which has the same straightline performance as the z lose out on laptimes? And why is it that the 5.0 GT that blows the z away on a straight line post laptimes about the same or marginally faster than the z? If a mustang is gaining so much time on the straights, it must be losing some time to the z on the corners. Otherwise, the discrepancy in laptimes should be much bigger.

Do base corvettes have an oil cooler? I recall reading somewhere that one of the upgrades that come with the z06 and zr1 over the base vettes are oil coolers.

Any RWD car is going to oversteer with enough throttle, that's just simple physics. What I'm talking about is if you're going hard through a corner, let's say on entry to apex, the Z is most likely to lose front grip first. On throttle you can kick the back end out, but that's a different type of oversteer (and the type of oversteer you don't want too much of, I might add.)

Regarding track times, it depends on the track. The 5.0 and Z are about equal through the corners. Take a look at the most recent C&D "best handlers under $40k" as they have pretty good data that separates time through corners and time on the straights.

What I've been saying all along is that the two are "about the same" in the handling department, with the edge going to the 5.0 (TO ME) because of a more neutral balance (TO ME). It could be entirely different to someone else. Either way BOTH cars are excellent corner carvers.

Pharmacist · 10-12-2011, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

There are a lot of people that have run track sessions with Carbotechs and a good DOT 4+ fluid without any failures, though. It could just be that the NISMO pads are not worth anywhere near $500.

i ran 20 and even 30 min sessions with dot 5.1 motur and hawk hp+ pads without a problem. Nismo pads are well known to be crap and not much of an upgrade over the stock pads.

Quote:

Lot of Z hatin' going on in this thread. I'd hoped the conversation would remain civil. Oh well.

Hey haven't you noticed? This isn't a z forum anymore. It's teh unofficial Mustang GT forum

Pharmacist · 10-12-2011, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

Depends on what the turn is like.

Generally, you have to roll slower into the throttle in a rwd car to not upset the balance. Rolling into the throttle hard will almost definitely create either understeer or oversteer depending on the turn and the surface. It is not much of a difference if you're just canyon cruising, but it's first-to-last on a course.

The spring bias in the z is also loathe to drop weight back onto the back wheels, expanding that pause. The closer fr rates on swifts and coils is where a lot of their benefit comes in....

trail braking a bit helps too. I usually brake hard before the corner, and keep a slight pressure on the pedal, about 10 or 15% on initial turn in. The slight front squat helps the front bite into the asphalt. After that it's power oversteer as needed

Red__Zed · 10-12-2011, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

trail braking a bit helps too. I usually brake hard before the corner, and keep a slight pressure on the pedal, about 10 or 15% on initial turn in. The slight front squat helps the front bite into the asphalt. After that it's power oversteer as needed

Trail braking is tricky in the z, because you can't afford to turn at all while braking. That's actually one of the bigger issues with how much understeer it has.

Power oversteer is great for fun and looking cool, but it wreaks havoc on lap times unless you have a tight 15mph hairpin. If you have to power oversteer to get through a turn, you are leaving time out there.

toxik · 10-12-2011, 12:38 PM

I wanted to trade in my 370z because I could not get my rear view camera to work.

Fortunately, PMing Jeffblue for NAVTOOL fixed that problem. PMing Jeffblue was the best thing I've ever done for my 370z.

m4a1mustang · 10-12-2011, 12:38 PM

You two probably have completely different driving styles.

m4a1mustang · 10-12-2011, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toxik

I wanted to trade in my 370z because I could not get my rear view camera to work.

Fortunately, PMing Jeffblue for NAVTOOL fixed that problem. PMing Jeffblue was the best thing I've ever done for my 370z.

I wish I knew that I could PM JeffBlue before I traded my Z in.

shadoquad · 10-12-2011, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toxik

I wanted to trade in my 370z because I could not get my rear view camera to work.

Fortunately, PMing Jeffblue for NAVTOOL fixed that problem. PMing Jeffblue was the best thing I've ever done for my 370z.

Red__Zed · 10-12-2011, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

i ran 20 and even 30 min sessions with dot 5.1 motur and hawk hp+ pads without a problem. Nismo pads are well known to be crap and not much of an upgrade over the stock pads.

Hey haven't you noticed? This isn't a z forum anymore. It's teh unofficial Mustang GT forum

Ever been on a car forum before? They pretty much all have more discussion about competitive cars than this one does. Half the 370z guys here are on the Evo forums, even guys still in z's

toxik · 10-12-2011, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

I wish I knew that I could PM JeffBlue before I traded my Z in.

PMing Jeffblue about NAVTOOL is like the coming of Jesus, if you have a 370z.

10-12-2011, 12:38 PM	#116 (permalink)
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