For those of you who have gotten rid of your 370Z

Red__Zed · 10-12-2011, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadoquad

Lot of Z hatin' going on in this thread. I'd hoped the conversation would remain civil. Oh well.

I dont really see much z hate going on...besides our resident troll.

Speaking for myself, the identity crisis the z has was the biggest reason for the swap. I felt like I couldn't run it hard without dropping $3-4k getting it ready, and wiping out my peace of mind for reliability. On the other hand, the clutch chatter and transmission issues really prevented it from being a comfy daily. It made a lot of performance compromises for comfort, and a lot of comfort compromises...(for cost I guess?). It was the wrong blend of car for me....though for others, it will be the perfect blend.

semtex · 10-12-2011, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

ALL cars understeer from the factory for safety purposes. The Z and probably the Mustang are close to neutral, so a bit of throttle to spin the rear wheels can cure understeer. Evo and especially Sti also understeer like a pig, but you can't cure it with a bit of throttle because the AWD and electronics will prevent you.

I can't speak for the Evo, but I can get my STi's rear end to rotate with throttle just fine as I usually drive with my center differential dialed to direct the torque with a rear bias. I also usually set my traction/stability control to the middle setting, which allows for some wheelspin without turning TC completely off. That's another thing that's nice, TC/VDC isn't just on/off like it is with the Z. That all being said, however, you're right that AWD cars understeer more than RWD. That's just basic physics. I remember test driving an Audi S4 years ago and I could definitely feel the difference. I actually considered getting an S4 to replace my Z, but the adjustable center diff of the STi swayed me (not to mention the price differential!).

shadoquad · 10-12-2011, 11:02 AM

This thread was basically asking for hate on the Z. This is a "nitpick the Z34" thread. A rose by any other name.

And you wonder why the "fanboys" are coming out?

Red__Zed · 10-12-2011, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semtex

I can't speak for the Evo, but I can get my STi's rear end to rotate with throttle just fine as I usually drive with my center differential dialed to direct the torque with a rear bias. I also usually set my traction/stability control to the middle setting, which allows for some wheelspin without turning TC completely off. That's another thing that's nice, TC/VDC isn't just on/off like it is with the Z. That all being said, however, you're right that AWD cars understeer more than RWD. That's just basic physics. I remember test driving an Audi S4 years ago and I could definitely feel the difference. I actually considered getting an S4 to replace my Z, but the adjustable center diff of the STi swayed me (not to mention the price differential!).

Yep, same experience here.

Awd definitely understeers more, but it's not a dynamic issue the way it is on a
Rwd car. I can tap the brakes to rotate the wrx and get right back on the throtle to rebalance. Not an option when the z understeers.

m4a1mustang · 10-12-2011, 11:10 AM

A square setup or a larger rear bar (or both) on the Z would change the dynamic quite a bit, though. If I ever got around to getting wheels for my Z I probably would have opted to run a square setup, or less stagger overall with a bigger bar.

shadoquad · 10-12-2011, 11:12 AM

When the Z understeers, I just brake, rotate, and get back on the throttle. I'm unsure how that differs from the WRX?

semtex · 10-12-2011, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadoquad

When the Z understeers, I just brake, rotate, and get back on the throttle. I'm unsure how that differs from the WRX?

It doesn't. But with the Z you have the option of skipping the braking and adding throttle to induce some oversteer (i.e., rotate the rear around to cancel out the understeer). It's a little harder to do that with an AWD car on account of the power going to the front wheels. Indeed, when I detect understeer with my STi I usually tap the brakes rather than attempt to power through it with the rear wheels.

kenchan · 10-12-2011, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarsRfun

I respectfully disagree, the STi, Mustang 5.0, and EVO dont have oil cooler issues, limp mode or braking issues...They arent a step down at all from a Z, as a previous poster said they may be a lateral step with an upward tilt.
The EVO comes with the superior brembo brakes, has a quicker 0-60 time and 1/4 mile time and was voted best handling car under 40k. Just because you've never owned one does not make them inferior in any way...you sound very biased. Ive driven the 370 z, my friend owns one by the way. Nice car but I value the room of my 4 door EVO, the AWD/all weather capability, excellent braking, handling, and thrust/torque 300ft/lbs.
To each his own...Id own a Z if my needs and wants were different.

that's not the point for me. i dont value a practical all weather 4 door sedan to a 2 door sportscar that has only 2 purposes...which is only to drive and have fun with it visually. ive not had any issues with the oil temps.

'sedans' are boring anyway in my book as the formfactor is just too general. it's not really good at anything like an all-season tire. i only own hatches (for utility) and coupes for driving/styling. in that sense mustang and STI-hatch would be a better choice vs Evo as it has more commitment to wat it is.

Evo's are great for those that like the Evo's.

Red__Zed · 10-12-2011, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

A square setup or a larger rear bar (or both) on the Z would change the dynamic quite a bit, though. If I ever got around to getting wheels for my Z I probably would have opted to run a square setup, or less stagger overall with a bigger bar.

I was never able to get the z neutral. Even with 295s all around on 10s, and a stiffer rear bar, the car pushed hard. It got really tricky because it would always push initially, but you'd wind up with snap oversteer if you got off the gas at all. And I don't mean ap1 snap oversteer, I mean real snap oversteer.

I like to think with more time I could have dialed it in, but I just learned to deal with it. The nice thing is, unless you do something really crazy, you always know where the z is going.

m4a1mustang · 10-12-2011, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

I was never able to get the z neutral. Even with 295s all around on 10s, and a stiffer rear bar, the car pushed hard. It got really tricky because it would always push initially, but you'd wind up with snap oversteer if you got off the gas at all. And I don't mean ap1 snap oversteer, I mean real snap oversteer.

I like to think with more time I could have dialed it in, but I just learned to deal with it. The nice thing is, unless you do something really crazy, you always know where the z is going.

Two things:

1) A good diff would probably make a difference in keeping the car rotating under power.

2) Some people just drive in such a way that induces understeer. If you attack a corner too hard you will probably plow regardless of whether the car is loose, neutral, or tight.

kenchan · 10-12-2011, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

Two things:

1) A good diff would probably make a difference in keeping the car rotating under power.

2) Some people just drive in such a way that induces understeer. If you attack a corner too hard you will probably plow regardless of whether the car is loose, neutral, or tight.

yah, i have to agree with #2 for sure. ive yet to find my Z understeering... all i changed was the offset and tires. nothing else. i can turn the car mid-turn with throttle.

i dont do any super tight turns though so i'd change the setup if i was going through cones by adding another 10mm offset in the front.

PapoZalsa · 10-12-2011, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

You need more than just pads to fix the brakes. The brake fade was experienced with the $500 nismo pads...

The caliper retains A TON of heat. I'd love to sit down sometime and run a thermodynamic analysis on the calipers to figure out what's up

Not in the one they up ended crashing the Nismo, it had wrong pads. That is the reason it overheated during the test.

Anyway this is just one instance, I know the Z is on the $hit list of almost every magazine out there because of the oil temps and brakes overheating....

Red__Zed · 10-12-2011, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadoquad

When the Z understeers, I just brake, rotate, and get back on the throttle. I'm unsure how that differs from the WRX?

Depends on what the turn is like.

Generally, you have to roll slower into the throttle in a rwd car to not upset the balance. Rolling into the throttle hard will almost definitely create either understeer or oversteer depending on the turn and the surface. It is not much of a difference if you're just canyon cruising, but it's first-to-last on a course.

The spring bias in the z is also loathe to drop weight back onto the back wheels, expanding that pause. The closer fr rates on swifts and coils is where a lot of their benefit comes in....

m4a1mustang · 10-12-2011, 11:28 AM

There is a huge misconception about "balance" when mostly it is a personal preference. The Mustang, Z, and STi/EVO all have very good handling dynamics. All of the cars have a good general balance, IMO. They just have to be driven differently in stock form.

And thankfully for all of us we can tweak the cars as we see fit. If I want more understeer or oversteer in the 5.0, I can adjust that. I could do the same with the Z depending on what I wanted. Like I was saying, a square setup would go a long way for improving the feel of the Z for ME, but that might not work for someone else.

shadoquad · 10-12-2011, 11:38 AM

I think the Z's setup is fantastic. It's not square, but it just feels great to approach a corner understeering slightly, then hit the apex and throttle through. The g forces alone are

I could see what Red is saying that if the rear squatted a bit more under throttle, it might escape the corner more quickly, but I'm less concerned with "quick" than I am with "fun"

10-12-2011, 11:10 AM	#95 (permalink)
m4a1mustang A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern VA Posts: 55,385 Drives: on two wheels Rep Power: 6962	A square setup or a larger rear bar (or both) on the Z would change the dynamic quite a bit, though. If I ever got around to getting wheels for my Z I probably would have opted to run a square setup, or less stagger overall with a bigger bar. __________________ - Steve Zs & Coffee - Saturdays at 10AM in Fairfax, VA and Columbia, MD (Click the banner!) LIKE us on Facebook!

10-12-2011, 11:28 AM	#104 (permalink)
m4a1mustang A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern VA Posts: 55,385 Drives: on two wheels Rep Power: 6962	There is a huge misconception about "balance" when mostly it is a personal preference. The Mustang, Z, and STi/EVO all have very good handling dynamics. All of the cars have a good general balance, IMO. They just have to be driven differently in stock form. And thankfully for all of us we can tweak the cars as we see fit. If I want more understeer or oversteer in the 5.0, I can adjust that. I could do the same with the Z depending on what I wanted. Like I was saying, a square setup would go a long way for improving the feel of the Z for ME, but that might not work for someone else. __________________ - Steve Zs & Coffee - Saturdays at 10AM in Fairfax, VA and Columbia, MD (Click the banner!) LIKE us on Facebook!

10-12-2011, 11:02 AM	#93 (permalink)
shadoquad A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: . Posts: 42,608 Drives: . Rep Power: 3886	This thread was basically asking for hate on the Z. This is a "nitpick the Z34" thread. A rose by any other name. And you wonder why the "fanboys" are coming out?

10-12-2011, 11:12 AM	#96 (permalink)
shadoquad A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: . Posts: 42,608 Drives: . Rep Power: 3886	When the Z understeers, I just brake, rotate, and get back on the throttle. I'm unsure how that differs from the WRX?

10-12-2011, 11:38 AM	#105 (permalink)
shadoquad A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: . Posts: 42,608 Drives: . Rep Power: 3886	I think the Z's setup is fantastic. It's not square, but it just feels great to approach a corner understeering slightly, then hit the apex and throttle through. The g forces alone are I could see what Red is saying that if the rear squatted a bit more under throttle, it might escape the corner more quickly, but I'm less concerned with "quick" than I am with "fun"