For those of you who have gotten rid of your 370Z

semtex · 10-12-2011, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

I'm pretty sure they do have oil cooling issues. Just because many sports cars do not reach limp mode doesn't mean their oil does not reach critically hot temperatures and damage the engine, unless of course they come with oil coolers, which I believe none of the above cars do.

Do you have any empirical evidence of this that you can point us to?

Red__Zed · 10-12-2011, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semtex

Do you have any empirical evidence of this that you can point us to?

Of course not. Besides that, pretty much every car comes with an air-to-water cooler at the least. The s2000 had one back in 99....that was such overkill for the car, that even with the stock radiator, 700whp on a stroked out motor converted to closed deck (wreaks havoc on temps), and tons of turbo piping in the engine bay, temps were roughly analogous to the z's, if not slightly cooler...Hit about 260 after 5-9 minutes of driving.

Pharmacist · 10-12-2011, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semtex

Do you have any empirical evidence of this that you can point us to?

Nope. But again, most cars do not have an oil temp gauge. The oil could be cooking and the driver would be none the wiser. The thing is, if the Z did not have limp mode or an oil temp gauge, no one would be whining about an oil temp problem, while they lap the car all day long, melting their bearings in the process. Same with the 335i. If it didn't have limp mode, no one would complain about oil overheating, even before BMW retrofitted oil coolers.

Quote:

When it comes to balance stock-for-stock, the Z has a lot of understeer and the 5.0 is very neutral.

Define " a lot". I have no problem getting the back end around with a bit of throttle. At least on the stock tires. With my AD08, understeer is a bit more prominent, but if i take out 3-4 psi of air from the front tires that deals with most of the problem. There's still a hint of understeer, but throttle application can get rid of that and even induce a spin out.

Also, if the mustang has the same handling as the z, why is it that the v6 mustang, which has the same straightline performance as the z lose out on laptimes? And why is it that the 5.0 GT that blows the z away on a straight line post laptimes about the same or marginally faster than the z? If a mustang is gaining so much time on the straights, it must be losing some time to the z on the corners. Otherwise, the discrepancy in laptimes should be much bigger.

Quote:

Besides that, pretty much every car comes with an air-to-water cooler at the least.

Do base corvettes have an oil cooler? I recall reading somewhere that one of the upgrades that come with the z06 and zr1 over the base vettes are oil coolers.

m4a1mustang · 10-12-2011, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

Nope. But again, most cars do not have an oil temp gauge. The oil could be cooking and the driver would be none the wiser. The thing is, if the Z did not have limp mode or an oil temp gauge, no one would be whining about an oil temp problem, while they lap the car all day long, melting their bearings in the process. Same with the 335i. If it didn't have limp mode, no one would complain about oil overheating, even before BMW retrofitted oil coolers.

Define " a lot". I have no problem getting the back end around with a bit of throttle. At least on the stock tires. With my AD08, understeer is a bit more prominent, but if i take out 3-4 psi of air from the front tires that deals with most of the problem. There's still a hint of understeer, but throttle application can get rid of that and even induce a spin out.

Also, if the mustang has the same handling as the z, why is it that the v6 mustang, which has the same straightline performance as the z lose out on laptimes? And why is it that the 5.0 GT that blows the z away on a straight line post laptimes about the same or marginally faster than the z? If a mustang is gaining so much time on the straights, it must be losing some time to the z on the corners. Otherwise, the discrepancy in laptimes should be much bigger.

Do base corvettes have an oil cooler? I recall reading somewhere that one of the upgrades that come with the z06 and zr1 over the base vettes are oil coolers.

Any RWD car is going to oversteer with enough throttle, that's just simple physics. What I'm talking about is if you're going hard through a corner, let's say on entry to apex, the Z is most likely to lose front grip first. On throttle you can kick the back end out, but that's a different type of oversteer (and the type of oversteer you don't want too much of, I might add.)

Regarding track times, it depends on the track. The 5.0 and Z are about equal through the corners. Take a look at the most recent C&D "best handlers under $40k" as they have pretty good data that separates time through corners and time on the straights.

What I've been saying all along is that the two are "about the same" in the handling department, with the edge going to the 5.0 (TO ME) because of a more neutral balance (TO ME). It could be entirely different to someone else. Either way BOTH cars are excellent corner carvers.

Pharmacist · 10-12-2011, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

Any RWD car is going to oversteer with enough throttle, that's just simple physics. What I'm talking about is if you're going hard through a corner, let's say on entry to apex, the Z is most likely to lose front grip first. On throttle you can kick the back end out, but that's a different type of oversteer (and the type of oversteer you don't want too much of, I might add.)

Regarding track times, it depends on the track. The 5.0 and Z are about equal through the corners. Take a look at the most recent C&D "best handlers under $40k" as they have pretty good data that separates time through corners and time on the straights.

What I've been saying all along is that the two are "about the same" in the handling department, with the edge going to the 5.0 (TO ME) because of a more neutral balance (TO ME). It could be entirely different to someone else. Either way BOTH cars are excellent corner carvers.

Again, I'm not debating that. I have no doubt the new mustang has very good handling and is no slouch. And I wouldn't be surprised if it understeers less than the Z. After all it does have a square set up. You get 255 mm tires all over, which are quite large for front tires, but on the skinny side for rear tires. I actually think 245 mm are too skinny for front tires on the z, especially given the forward weight bias. That may be responsible for much of the understeer. 255 or even 265 mm fronts may be better.

I still don't think the mustang can carry as much momentum through corners as the z. If it laps a track on average at the same time as the z, give or take a second or so, then it has to be losing time somewhere given that it gains a lot of time over the z on the straights. I don't remember the C&D article. I'll check it when I go home. I do remember that in the recent DSport RWD car of the year, the mustang was a bit slower than the z, and actually was even slower than the camaro ss. Can't remember which track they did the testing though.

Red__Zed · 10-12-2011, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

Again, I'm not debating that. I have no doubt the new mustang has very good handling and is no slouch. And I wouldn't be surprised if it understeers less than the Z. After all it does have a square set up. You get 255 mm tires all over, which are quite large for front tires, but on the skinny side for rear tires. I actually think 245 mm are too skinny for front tires on the z, especially given the forward weight bias. That may be responsible for much of the understeer. 255 or even 265 mm fronts may be better.

I still don't think the mustang can carry as much momentum through corners as the z. If it laps a track on average at the same time as the z, give or take a second or so, then it has to be losing time somewhere given that it gains a lot of time over the z on the straights. I don't remember the C&D article. I'll check it when I go home. I do remember that in the recent DSport RWD car of the year, the mustang was a bit slower than the z, and actually was even slower than the camaro ss. Can't remember which track they did the testing though.

Oh god the d sport article!!!!'

m4a1mustang · 10-12-2011, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

Again, I'm not debating that. I have no doubt the new mustang has very good handling and is no slouch. And I wouldn't be surprised if it understeers less than the Z. After all it does have a square set up. You get 255 mm tires all over, which are quite large for front tires, but on the skinny side for rear tires. I actually think 245 mm are too skinny for front tires on the z, especially given the forward weight bias. That may be responsible for much of the understeer. 255 or even 265 mm fronts may be better.

I still don't think the mustang can carry as much momentum through corners as the z. If it laps a track on average at the same time as the z, give or take a second or so, then it has to be losing time somewhere given that it gains a lot of time over the z on the straights. I don't remember the C&D article. I'll check it when I go home. I do remember that in the recent DSport RWD car of the year, the mustang was a bit slower than the z, and actually was even slower than the camaro ss. Can't remember which track they did the testing though.

I wouldn't put too much faith into the DSport article. They have quite a notorious slant. If they are going to compare the 370 to the 5.0, the 370 will win regardless.

The C&D article is much more objective and the testing data is interesting. For instance, the Mustang actually had the lowest body roll angle of all of the cars tested. The Miata had the highest.

Also, regarding losing time in the corners, the Mustang and 370Z had the exact same lap time with the straightaways removed at 63.3 seconds each.

For all intents and purposes, the cars are dead even stock-vs-stock in the corners, which supports everything I can tell after having spent quite a bit of time with both cars.

shadoquad · 10-12-2011, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

I wouldn't put too much faith into the DSport article. They have quite a notorious slant. If they are going to compare the 370 to the 5.0, the 370 will win regardless.

The C&D article is much more objective and the testing data is interesting. For instance, the Mustang actually had the lowest body roll angle of all of the cars tested. The Miata had the highest.

Also, regarding losing time in the corners, the Mustang and 370Z had the exact same lap time with the straightaways removed at 63.3 seconds each.

For all intents and purposes, the cars are dead even stock-vs-stock in the corners, which supports everything I can tell after having spent quite a bit of time with both cars.

If you look at the individual corner times, the Z beat the Stang in every corner except one, and by very slim margins. The sections of track without straights had some acceleration space, so that's where the Stang was able to even the test out.

That said, the Stang is dead even with the Z in handling in practically every objective measure and real world application. It wasn't faster through most corners, but it wasn't like it was even a half second behind in any of them either. It will outhandle most cars available for purchase, and that's in stock form.

m4a1mustang · 10-12-2011, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadoquad

If you look at the individual corner times, the Z beat the Stang in every corner except one, and by very slim margins. The sections of track without straights had some acceleration space, so that's where the Stang was able to even the test out.

That said, the Stang is dead even with the Z in handling in practically every objective measure and real world application. It wasn't faster through any corner, but it wasn't like it was even a half second behind in any of them either. It will outhandle most cars available for purchase, and that's in stock form.

Which is basically why it's a wash. You could throw a blanket over both cars in the corners, pretty much.