Bye-Bye Z

Mt Tam I am · 10-04-2011, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

Depends on the driver I guess.

Plus the only Mustangs that have been good on paper with the road courses are the new ones. Older styles will be a lot slower.

Remember there is a huge skill disparity at track days and driving schools. I have passed 911 Turbos and Corvettes in my '03 GT simply because those drivers were very, very cautious. Not everyone has the balls or skill to drive fast.

A 2011 GT or GT500 will be very fast around the bends in good hands.

The driver is everything.

A working theory: People buy cars for their popularity/badge (Ferrari, BMW) but purpose built cars like the Porsche GT2 and 3 costing far more than a base 911. And tend to not hold-up folks behind them, because they are driving enthusiasts.

With the Z you get a car for enthusiasts that does not carry a "trendy" badge. They even took the Z off and replaced it with a Nissan burger. I refer to my own as a Datsun 370Z.

The Mustang sells far more, than every Z, and every single Porsche built during the same year. As a result you get people who buy a car that is both popular and has a worthy badge. A GT and a GT500 both say Mustang. The Corvette also has a base and ZR1. It is just that the Mustang buyer since 1964 has been more concerned about power than handling. As a result, the standard new Mustang driver still holds up traffic, just like their older one.

All this holds true for the Camero and Charger too, just that the Mustang is top in the group.

This is a personal theory not fact. Any agreement or disagreement? I am not married to this I just can not figure out why all these cars hold up Camrey's, and trucks. I know in my own hands it would be different.

m4a1mustang · 10-04-2011, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mt Tam I am

The driver is everything.

A working theory: People buy cars for their popularity/badge (Ferrari, BMW) but purpose built cars like the Porsche GT2 and 3 costing far more than a base 911. And tend to not hold-up folks behind them, because they are driving enthusiasts.

With the Z you get a car for enthusiasts that does not carry a "trendy" badge. They even took the Z off and replaced it with a Nissan burger. I refer to my own as a Datsun 370Z.

The Mustang sells far more, than every Z, and every single Porsche built during the same year. As a result you get people who buy a car that is both popular and has a worthy badge. A GT and a GT500 both say Mustang. The Corvette also has a base and ZR1. It is just that the Mustang buyer since 1964 has been more concerned about power than handling. As a result, the standard new Mustang driver still holds up traffic, just like their older one.

All this holds true for the Camero and Charger too, just that the Mustang is top in the group.

This is a personal theory not fact. Any agreement or disagreement? I am not married to this I just can not figure out why all these cars hold up Camrey's, and trucks. I know in my own hands it would be different.

I don't think it's car specific because the type of person that would actually take their car out on track is a totally different breed. I know, and have known, plenty of crappy Z drivers that would hold up traffic on track regardless of how much seat time they had, so I think it's unfair to generalize and say the "standard" driver for any given type of car would hold up traffic on track... because the type of person that would actually go out on track is not the "standard." We are a very small minority.

I think Dan touched on it earlier, and I remember from your other track day thread, but the car out on track was a V6 convertible on all-seasons. I would hold up traffic too if I was driving that... but I assure you if I was driving the GT, or a V6 Coupe with Performance Package, I wouldn't.

Track days are always a crapshoot because there is a varying skill level. Throw a newb in a McLaren F1 and he'd hold you up in the corners.

To insinuate that the Z is strictly for enthusiasts, or that its typical driver has more skill than another type of car, is disingenuous. There are PLENTY of drivers that buy the Z purely because of how it looks, and that is VERY evident if you read about these forums. And there are plenty that couldn't drive 'round a track if their life depended on it (think "oops, VDC off").

themann1984 · 10-04-2011, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

There are PLENTY of drivers that buy the Z purely because of how it looks, and that is VERY evident if you read about these forums. And there are plenty that couldn't drive 'round a track if their life depended on it (think "oops, VDC off").

Hi guys! I sensed that somebody was talking about me.

The 370Z is pure sex! It is hot, loud, and rough!

ProfessorDave · 10-05-2011, 09:42 AM

Kills me. Every time.

Red__Zed · 09-27-2011, 09:06 AM

Skill matters more than anything at that level...but wasn't that guy also running a vert on Nero's? I'd be holding up traffic on all season tires too

m4a1mustang · 09-27-2011, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

Skill matters more than anything at that level...but wasn't that guy also running a vert on Nero's? I'd be holding up traffic on all season tires too

Ah yeah, that's true. No car is going to do well on track with those tires.

shadoquad · 09-27-2011, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

Ah yeah, that's true. No car is going to do well on track with those tires.

...except the Nissan 370Z.

Red__Zed · 09-27-2011, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadoquad

...except the Nissan 370Z.

I heard a 370z with all seasons won't be able to stay on the road trying to keep up with a maxima

shadoquad · 09-27-2011, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

I heard a 370z with all seasons won't be able to stay on the road trying to keep up with a maxima

Man, I ride winter tires, no I mean SNOW CHAINS and set better lap times than Mustangs on racing slicks with superchargers.

Son, they ain't got no game for me.

Now, outside of Forza, it's a different story.

Red__Zed · 09-27-2011, 09:07 AM

In before steve mentions I would hold him up on any tire

m4a1mustang · 09-27-2011, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

In before steve mentions I would hold him up on any tire

Get out of my GoPro's way.

Red__Zed · 09-27-2011, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

Get out of my GoPro's way.

Provided you don't install those koni's...you shouldn't be running into any issues with me in your way Because once again, I will run behind you

m4a1mustang · 09-27-2011, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

Provided you don't install those koni's...you shouldn't be running into any issues with me in your way Because once again, I will run behind you

You guys always run behind me anyways, Z's and Maximas are my little ducklings, and I help them cross the road. And by cross the road I mean the distance between NOVA and ZDayZ.

UNKNOWN_370 · 09-27-2011, 11:25 AM

Ak. Needs to build a new section. "Z yesterday-mustang today section." Lol.

I'm not knocking mustangs but I just don't get how people for from Z's to stangs. I can buy a stang as a second car, maybe? But it would be more natural to go from a Z to a vette or porsche. Even the vette is a stretch without certain suspension mods. I know the stang does well on tracks with its combination of improved suspension and power. But I'm not feeling the steering feel, seating position, gauges and ride height at all. I would have to change so much on a stang. When I think of one I would purchase? It would be that BOSS 302. GT is a no go. 412hp or not. Can't do it.
The stang is very respectable though as far as the numbers it puts down and the miraculous upgrade in performance in spite of still sitting on a track use only live axle suspension. Anyway, congratulations. Its still a nice looking car for what it is and leagues better than the 2010 and earlier.

gurneyeagle · 09-27-2011, 11:31 AM

I can certainly see the attraction to the new Mustangs and respect some of the guys' decisions to switch. They have great build quality, they are inexpensive for the performance you get, and they have a back seat which seems to be creeping into a few of the decisions. I would hands-down pick a Mustang GT over a G37.

That being said, I chose a Z for exclusivity, reliability, and the fact it was a true sports car.

I just hope that some of our newly "fallen" brothers will continue to hang around as I find them to be great sources of information and entertainment.

10-05-2011, 09:42 AM	#4 (permalink)
ProfessorDave A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Scranton, PA Posts: 1,580 Drives: In the fairway Rep Power: 19	Kills me. Every time. __________________ Rain, snow, sleet, hail: 2009 Mazda 3 sGT HB Everything else: 2009 370z, PW Touring 6MT

09-27-2011, 11:31 AM	#15 (permalink)
gurneyeagle A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Houston/Saint Augustine Posts: 2,681 Drives: '18 Audi TT RS Rep Power: 20215	I can certainly see the attraction to the new Mustangs and respect some of the guys' decisions to switch. They have great build quality, they are inexpensive for the performance you get, and they have a back seat which seems to be creeping into a few of the decisions. I would hands-down pick a Mustang GT over a G37. That being said, I chose a Z for exclusivity, reliability, and the fact it was a true sports car. I just hope that some of our newly "fallen" brothers will continue to hang around as I find them to be great sources of information and entertainment. __________________ Waiting on the Z35! SOLD - 2011 Gun Metallic Touring 7AT w Sports Pkg & Nav, Nismo Bumper and Rims, RC Grille, RC Brake Ducts, H&R Spacers, Painted Door Hdls, GTR Start Button, Nav By-Pass, EVO R Fog Light, CF Ducktail, CF Interior Trim

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09-27-2011, 09:06 AM	#5 (permalink)
Red__Zed A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: window seat Posts: 28,940 Drives: Mostly on two wheels Rep Power: 120	Skill matters more than anything at that level...but wasn't that guy also running a vert on Nero's? I'd be holding up traffic on all season tires too

09-27-2011, 09:07 AM	#10 (permalink)
Red__Zed A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: window seat Posts: 28,940 Drives: Mostly on two wheels Rep Power: 120	In before steve mentions I would hold him up on any tire

09-27-2011, 11:25 AM	#14 (permalink)
UNKNOWN_370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: ny'r livn in tx Posts: 8,687 Drives: well over 130m.p.h. Rep Power: 14858	Ak. Needs to build a new section. "Z yesterday-mustang today section." Lol. I'm not knocking mustangs but I just don't get how people for from Z's to stangs. I can buy a stang as a second car, maybe? But it would be more natural to go from a Z to a vette or porsche. Even the vette is a stretch without certain suspension mods. I know the stang does well on tracks with its combination of improved suspension and power. But I'm not feeling the steering feel, seating position, gauges and ride height at all. I would have to change so much on a stang. When I think of one I would purchase? It would be that BOSS 302. GT is a no go. 412hp or not. Can't do it. The stang is very respectable though as far as the numbers it puts down and the miraculous upgrade in performance in spite of still sitting on a track use only live axle suspension. Anyway, congratulations. Its still a nice looking car for what it is and leagues better than the 2010 and earlier.