New Car and Driver review of the 370z... oil temp fail!

Pharmacist · 09-10-2011, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snakes709

I'll admit, ....unless we are all meeting up or going to the track.

You do make some valid points that i totally agree with. But some of your arguments are nonsense. Yes the oil temp thing is a flaw and a big fail on Nissan's part. But it's easily fixed. A minor flaw like this shouldn't really be the sole decision in buying a car. Almost any car would need some upgrades before doing serious track duty, even porsches and ferraris. As for the brakes, yes the Z's pads are oriented towards daily driving and are rubbish on the track. But that's a common problem with all cars. I have hp+ pads which work wonders on the track, but with the amount of brake dust and squealing they do, it's not hard to see why Nissan and other car companies don't offer such pads on the car. Keep in mind most sports car buyers are NOT track rats. They probably don't even know what an apex is. Yes I'm sure Evo brakes are better than the Z's but I doubt they are stellar either. I'm pretty sure you would still need at least pads and fluid for serious track duty.

Can't argue with you about practicality. But it's a 2 seater sports car. It isn't made to be practical, and it's ridiculous to expect otherwise. Really, who the heck goes to buy a 2 seat sports car in order to carry military gear to a base? That's what pickup trucks are for. Hit and run magnet isn't the fault of the Z. It's the fault of idiot drivers. Unless the Evo comes from the factory with idiot driver repellant, I'm not quite sure about your point.

And I have an even harder time understanding the VDC argument. VDC being crap on the track is excellent reason to turn it off and go into Lewis Hamilton mode! Who keeps the traction control on while lapping anyway? As for the street, VDC is what it is. It gets the job done, which is to keep you from killing yourself if you do something stupid like flooring it while doing a U turn on an icy road or whatever.

Really, apart from the oil temp issue which is a totally legitimate problem, and the lack of practicality (which you should have known in the first place going with a small 2 seat sports car), the rest of complaints are quite petty and ridiculous.

nuTinmuch · 09-10-2011, 03:58 PM

Taking bets on how many pages of back-and-forth we get out of this.

PS: I'd be happy with either an Evo or a 370, either on the street or the track. They are both fun and capable cars. Neither is radically better than the other in any field.

UNKNOWN_370 · 09-10-2011, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

You do make some valid points that i totally agree with. But some of your arguments are nonsense. Yes the oil temp thing is a flaw and a big fail on Nissan's part. But it's easily fixed. A minor flaw like this shouldn't really be the sole decision in buying a car. Almost any car would need some upgrades before doing serious track duty, even porsches and ferraris. As for the brakes, yes the Z's pads are oriented towards daily driving and are rubbish on the track. But that's a common problem with all cars. I have hp+ pads which work wonders on the track, but with the amount of brake dust and squealing they do, it's not hard to see why Nissan and other car companies don't offer such pads on the car. Keep in mind most sports car buyers are NOT track rats. They probably don't even know what an apex is. Yes I'm sure Evo brakes are better than the Z's but I doubt they are stellar either. I'm pretty sure you would still need at least pads and fluid for serious track duty.

Can't argue with you about practicality. But it's a 2 seater sports car. It isn't made to be practical, and it's ridiculous to expect otherwise. Really, who the heck goes to buy a 2 seat sports car in order to carry military gear to a base? That's what pickup trucks are for. Hit and run magnet isn't the fault of the Z. It's the fault of idiot drivers. Unless the Evo comes from the factory with idiot driver repellant, I'm not quite sure about your point.

And I have an even harder time understanding the VDC argument. VDC being crap on the track is excellent reason to turn it off and go into Lewis Hamilton mode! Who keeps the traction control on while lapping anyway? As for the street, VDC is what it is. It gets the job done, which is to keep you from killing yourself if you do something stupid like flooring it while doing a U turn on an icy road or whatever.

Really, apart from the oil temp issue which is a totally legitimate problem, and the lack of practicality (which you should have known in the first place going with a small 2 seat sports car), the rest of complaints are quite petty and ridiculous.

well said.

BrianMSmith · 09-10-2011, 04:23 PM

Journo opinions are just opinions. The McClaren blows away the 458 in every measure, yet all the journos rate the 458. It is subjective. You like what you like, it's not important that your car "wins" in somebody elses mind, especially the dumb ones. A mustang is a car for the proletariat. That's why they sell so many. Our cars are for connisseurs.

The 370Z is not a track car. Don't take it there without a brake fluid change to racing, and adding an oil cooler. Personally, I am glade my car was $1000 cheaper and did not have the oil cooler.

Have fun.

cossie1600 · 09-10-2011, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisSlicks

Yes the Z51 has a cooler, base does not.

The cool down lap comes after you get the checker flag

Even with a cool down lap here or there the heat build up just becomes too much to dissipate in a single lap, we do it but it is only momentary relief. The cars probably get pushed the hardest when you start red misting trying to catch someone in front of you as you start focusing exclusively on driving and forget to look at gauges.

No way, shifting a car 500RPM makes a dramatic difference in both Z and Corvette. My car hoovers around 260F and creeps near 270 while hotlapping, it drops to 250-260 as soon as I short shift. It was the same exact thing with the C6.

I am getting too old to race against the car in front of me in a time trial, clocks are safer bets.

Z_ealot · 09-10-2011, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

well said.

i also agree 100%, add to that the fact that this snakes709 guy doesnt seem to ever have anything good to say about the Z and just makes himself look like a troll most of the time. i'm all for people having their right to an opinion, but to just call something garbage based on a few petty things that you yourself may only have a problem with and not everyone else just shows how close minded he/she is. While the whole oil temp. thing is a valid argument that alot of people have issues with including myself, like others have stated it is an easy fix, but to every other thing that snakes has said it is all subjective and personally i have no issues with any of the problems he/she claims the Z has. In any case i'm glad you enjoy your Evo snakes, but in the future please refrain from calling the Z garbage and i'm sure all the members of the Z forum here will do the same for the Evo crowd cause in the end we all joined these types of forums for one reason.....because we enjoy our cars

cossie1600 · 09-10-2011, 04:38 PM

The answer is neither, you will destroy the OEM brake pads before your day ends (assuming you don't end up in a wall) on either car, especially if you don't drive like a novice.

The VDC is garbage on the Z, but do you think the guys using it are truly fast drivers? (Please don't believe in smooth drivers can do better with the VDC in the Z, the system will kick on easily)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snakes709

I'll admit, im not the best driver on the track. I took the Z on the track 3 times and i only been to the track once with the evo. So in no way am I pro. That being said, you take the AWD vs. RWD and the systems out of the picture, you got 2 cars, pretty much the same price but the Z being a V6 sports car, going against each other. Which car can hold up better on the track? iiunno anything about the MR having issues with the tranny because I own a GSR. However if it is having issues its just as much ******** as the 370z having oil temps. But stock for stock at my local track i can keep the rpms alot higher and have more power coming out of the turns then i could in the Z do to heating issues. Also i can brake a hell of alot harder/faster in the Evo as well.

PapoZalsa · 09-10-2011, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nuTinmuch

Taking bets on how many pages of back-and-forth we get out of this.

Refer to Post #214!

CarsRfun · 09-10-2011, 05:05 PM

My buddy owns a base cherry 370z, Ive driven it, it's a very nice car, ultra sporty and absolutely gorgeous!
I just wonder if this lack of an oil cooler thing is going to affect: long term engine reliability/failure issues, resale values, confidence in the product. In the short run, the damage is mostly that people are wondering "what if" ? One of the reasons I sold my RX8 is due to long term reliability questions...I have to wonder why Nissan, who is known for quality and reliability, would eliminate the oil cooler and go with lesser quality brakes? That seems very foolish. Pennywise in the short term but costly in the long run.

red6spd · 09-10-2011, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarsRfun

My buddy owns a base cherry 370z, Ive driven it, it's a very nice car, ultra sporty and absolutely gorgeous!
I just wonder if this lack of an oil cooler thing is going to affect: long term engine reliability/failure issues, resale values, confidence in the product. In the short run, the damage is mostly that people are wondering "what if" ? One of the reasons I sold my RX8 is due to long term reliability questions...I have to wonder why Nissan, who is known for quality and reliability, would eliminate the oil cooler and go with lesser quality brakes? That seems very foolish. Pennywise in the short term but costly in the long run.

Thats what Limp Mode is there for. Nissan made the car go in Limp Mode so not to damage the engine.

Alchemy · 09-10-2011, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snakes709

I'll admit, im not the best driver on the track. I took the Z on the track 3 times and i only been to the track once with the evo. So in no way am I pro. That being said, you take the AWD vs. RWD and the systems out of the picture, you got 2 cars, pretty much the same price but the Z being a V6 sports car, going against each other. Which car can hold up better on the track? iiunno anything about the MR having issues with the tranny because I own a GSR. However if it is having issues its just as much ******** as the 370z having oil temps. But stock for stock at my local track i can keep the rpms alot higher and have more power coming out of the turns then i could in the Z do to heating issues. Also i can brake a hell of alot harder/faster in the Evo as well.

I'm not going to seat here and beat a dead horse...think thats been done already. Like i said, if you want a nice weekend car or a car to mod...sure the 370z is a nice car. But for what i needed it for, the 370z was garbage. Having 2 seats sucked ***, couldnt carry my military kit at all (had to do 4 trips to the base to get my gear to my unit for deployment), stock wise it was useless on the track and the VDC system was garbage. Not to mention the car was a damn hit and run magnent.

The Evo on the other hand can hold all my military kit, has 4 doors and can seat 5 people, it has no issues on the track and the S-AWD is amazing. Even when i turn it off the car still reacts in a well behaved manner. Also i like having something not everyone has. As each month goes by i see more and more 370z. I rarely see Evo's on the street unless we are all meeting up or going to the track.

I see WAY more boy racers, oh sorry I mean Evo's on the street than 370's. Though I have never tracked either I would have to say the Z is a better track car. I believe it bested the Evo on the Top Gear track, although Im not sure what version of Evo was used. If you wanna bad mouth the 370 join an Evo forum and do it there.

ImportConvert · 09-10-2011, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cossie1600

The answer is neither, you will destroy the OEM brake pads before your day ends (assuming you don't end up in a wall) on either car, especially if you don't drive like a novice.

The VDC is garbage on the Z, but do you think the guys using it are truly fast drivers? (Please don't believe in smooth drivers can do better with the VDC in the Z, the system will kick on easily)

A bit off topic, but I LOVED! The "VDC" in the corvette. It does its part pretty well. Is the VDC in the 370Z not as good, or do you think they both suck?

ImportConvert · 09-10-2011, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarsRfun

My buddy owns a base cherry 370z, Ive driven it, it's a very nice car, ultra sporty and absolutely gorgeous!
I just wonder if this lack of an oil cooler thing is going to affect: long term engine reliability/failure issues, resale values, confidence in the product. In the short run, the damage is mostly that people are wondering "what if" ? One of the reasons I sold my RX8 is due to long term reliability questions...I have to wonder why Nissan, who is known for quality and reliability, would eliminate the oil cooler and go with lesser quality brakes? That seems very foolish. Pennywise in the short term but costly in the long run.

Corvette did it with the seats.
Viper did it with the "small parts"

If you want a car that "has it all", you will have to spend a lot more $$. The Porsche Cayman S is a well-balanced car, but it's way slower than a 'vette, and similar to the 370Z--for nearly twice the price. However, it is "the full package". Premium everything, and very very well executed.

Now, to get up to Z06 performance in a similar car, you will have to go up to the Porsche GT3, etc. etc. and you will spend a TON! more money.

It's all about what you want, and what you can afford. Don't like the 370Z's short-comings? I would say your next stop is at the $60K point with a Cayman S. You will get very similar performance but a better "over-all" package.

Does this make sense, or am I butchering my thought-conveyance?

ImportConvert · 09-10-2011, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

So basically in a nutshell, what you're saying is... your driving skills suck. You needed an all wheel drive car with a million restrictive safety doodaas to keep you safe in a car because rwd takes too much skill to drive that you don't have! Turbos are 10k or better and you really can't afford that either? So between your low budget and lack of driving skills. The EVO was your best choice. Is that what you were trying to say?????
And a good choice at that. After you learn how to drive in your beginners tuner car. Redrive a Z. An evo will at least get you where you need to be. The evo is well made for such a situation though quality is shoddy. More advanced drivers with a little extra cash for mods will choose a Z.
There's no such thing as a garbage Z. Only garbage drivers that can't control them.

To be fair, one must know their limits. I drive a Z06, and I know damn well that I am not a pro, and have no place trying to act like one. So, I drive it within MY COMFORT ZONE (which at spring mountain I learned was about like an instructor in a Camaro SS, lol). If the person you are responding to has more fun driving the EVO within his comfort zone than the 370Z, what's to knock? He knows his limits and is within them. That is responsible. However, you are 100% right that that does NOT give them the right to knock the Z. I will say though, with it's weight distribution and wheel-base, I would imagine the 370Z is highly rewarding if you know what you are doing, and a flat out bitch if you don't. In my Z06, the "VDC" is pretty darn good and unless you are being a complete idiot, will keep you off the wall if you do your part. Some have said the 370Z has a good VDC, some not so much. Either way, drive within your limits. Much more manly to admit them and learn as you go than try to be Billy Badass and take a cab home from the track.

Snakes709 · 09-10-2011, 05:40 PM

When i was talking about the VDC, i wasnt talking about it on the track. I not only had it turned off, i had the harness pulled out. I'm talking about DD, mainly in the winter. The VDC screwed me up so many times i got sick of it. You can barely get moving with it on. It would actualy make me feel like im loosing control in a turn, even on ice. I can take a turn normally or even with my *** end sliding out and be in control 100%, but the second VDC kicks in, it sends the car all over the place. As where as the Evo's systems it doesnt make huge/noticeable corrections. Yes i know its AWD, but i feel more safe if i know whats going to happen and what i can expect. The VDC system was like "oh ****! gotta do this NOW!!" the Evo's system is like "ok sweet, the guy is having issues, lets help him out abit"

Now for the track since the system in the Evo is alot more advance i went with traction control off (1 push of the button) and left the rest of the systems on. Next time when i feel more comfortable ill turn all the systems off (hold for 3 secs) just to see how the car handles when it doesnt have the AYC and all that stuff.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alchemy

I see WAY more boy racers, oh sorry I mean Evo's on the street than 370's. Though I have never tracked either I would have to say the Z is a better track car. I believe it bested the Evo on the Top Gear track, although Im not sure what version of Evo was used. If you wanna bad mouth the 370 join an Evo forum and do it there.

And yet your point is invalid to me. You never tracked either cars and i doubt you owned a evo either. So until you have taken both cars on the track, your posts are useless to me, kbye

09-10-2011, 03:58 PM	#242 (permalink)
nuTinmuch A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,092 Drives: PG 7AT 370Z Rep Power: 17	Taking bets on how many pages of back-and-forth we get out of this. PS: I'd be happy with either an Evo or a 370, either on the street or the track. They are both fun and capable cars. Neither is radically better than the other in any field. __________________ nuTinmuch! -- Platinum Graphite 370Z -- Check out my Gallery thread here!

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09-10-2011, 04:23 PM	#244 (permalink)
BrianMSmith Enthusiast Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: secret Posts: 267 Drives: 370Z, Ducati 748S Rep Power: 15	Journo opinions are just opinions. The McClaren blows away the 458 in every measure, yet all the journos rate the 458. It is subjective. You like what you like, it's not important that your car "wins" in somebody elses mind, especially the dumb ones. A mustang is a car for the proletariat. That's why they sell so many. Our cars are for connisseurs. The 370Z is not a track car. Don't take it there without a brake fluid change to racing, and adding an oil cooler. Personally, I am glade my car was $1000 cheaper and did not have the oil cooler. Have fun.

09-10-2011, 05:05 PM	#249 (permalink)
CarsRfun Base Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: USA Posts: 38 Drives: EVO Rep Power: 14	My buddy owns a base cherry 370z, Ive driven it, it's a very nice car, ultra sporty and absolutely gorgeous! I just wonder if this lack of an oil cooler thing is going to affect: long term engine reliability/failure issues, resale values, confidence in the product. In the short run, the damage is mostly that people are wondering "what if" ? One of the reasons I sold my RX8 is due to long term reliability questions...I have to wonder why Nissan, who is known for quality and reliability, would eliminate the oil cooler and go with lesser quality brakes? That seems very foolish. Pennywise in the short term but costly in the long run.