Air radar

m4a1mustang · 07-11-2011, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brutal 370Z

I'm sure if your "friend" seeks such information, they are obligated to give it to him. Tell him to let you know what they say so that you can inform us as well. I'm certainly interested to know.

Hambone1 · 07-11-2011, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cunnos

Yea my "friend" is weighing his options, but he said he will appeal it and hopefully get his 362 dollar ticket reduced. My friend is also interested in finding out if the radar is actually a video or just a tagged picture.

I know in WA state on some of the more open parts of I-90 (major highway) there are aircraft patrols which consist of light planes being flown overhead of the highway. They run what is essentially a dash cam like in a squad car, and use a combination of radar/laser within a certain range, and also the previously mentioned hash marks

Cunnos · 07-11-2011, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hambone1

I know in WA state on some of the more open parts of I-90 (major highway) there are aircraft patrols which consist of light planes being flown overhead of the highway. They run what is essentially a dash cam like in a squad car, and use a combination of radar/laser within a certain range, and also the previously mentioned hash marks

hmmm interesting, what exactly is a hash mark though? As my friend was saying, its one thing if a cop gets you on the side of the road with a radar gun or you drive by them going to fast, but how accurate can a helicopter or airplane be? Thats what my friend is trying to figure out

Econ · 07-11-2011, 10:24 AM

they can get you for speeding in a variety of ways.

a friend of mine got a ticket because his average speed between two easy pass stations (a few miles apart) was to high. He made it to the next easy pass to quickly and the easy pass came up as a red flag and wouldnt let him through...cop walked over and told him to pull to the side of the road.

ChrisSlicks · 07-11-2011, 10:26 AM

If they used the hash marks on the highway then they were using a stop watch and a lookup chart, not radar. There are air to ground radar systems but they are very expensive so not sure how prevalent they are outside of the military.

Either way, if you appeal you are entitled to discovery. File a motion with the court for the state's evidence, if they fail to produce the evidence then it is likely that your case will be dismissed. The evidence will allow you to do additional research into the potential accuracy of the speed measurement, and allow you to challenge on certain grounds.

m4a1mustang · 07-11-2011, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cunnos

hmmm interesting, what exactly is a hash mark though? As my friend was saying, its one thing if a cop gets you on the side of the road with a radar gun or you drive by them going to fast, but how accurate can a helicopter or airplane be? Thats what my friend is trying to figure out

Those lines going across the road on the highway... The airborne officers will time you from line one to line two, then divide that distance by your time, arriving at your average speed between two points. If the points are 1/2 mile apart and it takes you 24 seconds to go from line one to two, you're doing about 75 mph...

Cunnos · 07-11-2011, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisSlicks

If they used the hash marks on the highway then they were using a stop watch and a lookup chart, not radar. There are air to ground radar systems but they are very expensive so not sure how prevalent they are outside of the military.

Either way, if you appeal you are entitled to discovery. File a motion with the court for the state's evidence, if they fail to produce the evidence then it is likely that your case will be dismissed. The evidence will allow you to do additional research into the potential accuracy of the speed measurement, and allow you to challenge on certain grounds.

Yes, this is what my friend intends to do. He said that he wants proof or evidence from the air radar that he was indeed going the speed they clocked him at. The hash marks/stop watch method could prove to me a tough thing to argue, but if it was indeed an air radar then proof should be available.

onzedge · 07-11-2011, 10:35 AM

When aircraft are used in California, the spotter in the plane simply times you between painted marks that have set distances apart on the freeway. Once you are clocked they just call ahead to a waiting CHP.

Simple physics. Rate = distance/time

ChrisSlicks · 07-11-2011, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cunnos

Yes, this is what my friend intends to do. He said that he wants proof or evidence from the air radar that he was indeed going the speed they clocked him at. The hash marks/stop watch method could prove to me a tough thing to argue, but if it was indeed an air radar then proof should be available.

The stop watch method is subject to human error, but the error has to be significant to throw it off. At 60 mph you are covering a 1/4 mile every 15 seconds, at 90 mph you'll do it in 10. They might be off by 0.1 to 0.3 seconds due to parallax error or reflexes.

cajunz · 07-11-2011, 10:51 AM

No "air radar" used. Just timing the car between 1/4 mile hash marks on the road. I got nailed once in my '79 280zx by a state trooper helicopter. The trooper that pulled me over thought it was hilarious that my radar detector didn't warn me.

Cunnos · 07-11-2011, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisSlicks

The stop watch method is subject to human error, but the error has to be significant to throw it off. At 60 mph you are covering a 1/4 mile every 15 seconds, at 90 mph you'll do it in 10. They might be off by 0.1 to 0.3 seconds due to parallax error or reflexes.

Interesting stuff, thank you for the info. I think my friend is going to appeal it and ask the troopers for evidence of his clocked rate of speed.

Arkaine · 07-11-2011, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brutal 370Z

I see signs sometimes on the highways here in Ontario that say it is being air-patrolled but I've never heard of anyone being booked this way, nor have I noticed any helicopters above. I always thought it was more of a scare tactic that they might employ once in a blue moon.

I was in the same boat as you until 2 weeks ago. My buddys gf was coming back to Kingston from Cornwall and she received a ticket from air-patrol.

Apparently what happens is they time you going between certain lines/points to see how much you're speeding. Then they phone to ground patrol and a cop car will find you on the 401 and issue you a ticket. She said that when she was pulled over the cop informed her that he didn't see her speeding, but it was from air patrol.

So weird.. don't we have better things to waste our tax dollars on??

theDreamer · 07-11-2011, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cunnos

Interesting stuff, thank you for the info. I think my friend is going to appeal it and ask the troopers for evidence of his clocked rate of speed.

Tell your friend to get a lawyer.
It will help in making things easier and show he is trying to be professional and not just some 'punk kid.'

Cunnos · 07-11-2011, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkaine

I was in the same boat as you until 2 weeks ago. My buddys gf was coming back to Kingston from Cornwall and she received a ticket from air-patrol.

Apparently what happens is they time you going between certain lines/points to see how much you're speeding. Then they phone to ground patrol and a cop car will find you on the 401 and issue you a ticket. She said that when she was pulled over the cop informed her that he didn't see her speeding, but it was from air patrol.

So weird.. don't we have better things to waste our tax dollars on??

So did she appeal it or is she going to pay the fine?

USMCASA · 07-11-2011, 11:24 AM

lawyer up, will be expensive now but will save you cash in the long run

07-11-2011, 10:24 AM	#19 (permalink)
Econ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: New York City Posts: 2,546 Drives: Fiat? Rep Power: 19	they can get you for speeding in a variety of ways. a friend of mine got a ticket because his average speed between two easy pass stations (a few miles apart) was to high. He made it to the next easy pass to quickly and the easy pass came up as a red flag and wouldnt let him through...cop walked over and told him to pull to the side of the road. __________________ 2014 Triumph Thruxton 900 2013 Fiat 500 Abarth 2009 Nissan 370z

07-11-2011, 10:26 AM	#20 (permalink)
ChrisSlicks A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: North East Posts: 6,203 Drives: 09 370Z Sport M6 Rep Power: 653	If they used the hash marks on the highway then they were using a stop watch and a lookup chart, not radar. There are air to ground radar systems but they are very expensive so not sure how prevalent they are outside of the military. Either way, if you appeal you are entitled to discovery. File a motion with the court for the state's evidence, if they fail to produce the evidence then it is likely that your case will be dismissed. The evidence will allow you to do additional research into the potential accuracy of the speed measurement, and allow you to challenge on certain grounds. __________________ Hotchkis ARB \| Stillen CAI \| Art Pipes \| Berk CBE \| Stillen AP Racing Brakes \| AE Performance Oil Cooler \| BC Racing ER Coilovers \| Doran Control Arms

07-11-2011, 10:35 AM	#23 (permalink)
onzedge A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Battle Lake MN Age: 64 Posts: 183,964 Drives: 370Z 240Z Rep Power: 2684736	When aircraft are used in California, the spotter in the plane simply times you between painted marks that have set distances apart on the freeway. Once you are clocked they just call ahead to a waiting CHP. Simple physics. Rate = distance/time __________________ Koni\|Swift\|Michelin\|Motordyne\|Berk\|RJM Performance\|Gates\|SPL\|Motul\|Technafit\|Ate Super Blue\|Hawk Tommy Kaira\|Momo\|Optima\|Hella\|Hotchkis\|Red Line\|ZSpeed\|Stillen\|B&M\|H&R

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07-11-2011, 10:51 AM	#25 (permalink)
cajunz Base Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Vernal, Ut Posts: 92 Drives: '09 370Z MB 6MT Rep Power: 16	No "air radar" used. Just timing the car between 1/4 mile hash marks on the road. I got nailed once in my '79 280zx by a state trooper helicopter. The trooper that pulled me over thought it was hilarious that my radar detector didn't warn me.

07-11-2011, 11:24 AM	#30 (permalink)
USMCASA A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: NC Posts: 1,152 Drives: 09 370z CY M6 Rep Power: 18	lawyer up, will be expensive now but will save you cash in the long run