Staggered or square setup?
 

I know some members go to track often. I am about to buy a new set of rims, and just wondering how many of people prefer staggered over square setup.

I would like to run a square setup as I do on all of my other cars, but the sizes just aren't flattering in the front or the rear on the Z. At least, in my opinion.

I run staggered, mainly because wheels fit the car much better this way.

I know Mike and a few other guys run the square setups though, so maybe they would share some insight.

i like staggered for the simple fact that it looks much more aggressive.

I prefer a square setup for handling, although some cars benefit from a staggered setup (think Porsche 911s which need stagger to help control oversteer).

I feel like the Z has a lot of factory understeer, so I'd definitely avoid increasing the stagger if you choose to stay with a staggered setup.

He's talking about track wheels here, looks are secondary.

Square has the advantage that it is easier to rotate the car and easy to rotate the tires for equalizing wear. You are giving up a small amount of grip potential to make this compromise but your tires will last a heck of a lot longer. I would probably go with a +30 offset 10" or 10.5" rim.

I have a 30mm stagger on both my track wheels and the street wheels and I have no issue rotating the car the way it is setup currently even with slicks. Some of this is driving style and some of it is suspension setup.

Increase negative camber in the front to -1.6 to -2.5. That will eliminate understeer with our staggered setup. That of course means you need to get a SPC front camber kit to be able to make those adjustments.

Yeah, there are a lot of ways to do it. I felt like it's more a combination of the stagger and soft bars, though.

Yep, this is a must. I run about -3.5 in the front, -2.0 rear. I would actually like -1.8 in the rear but I'm maxed out with the current adjusters.

You don't DD your car, do you Chris?

Not really. My commute is 3 miles at 35 mph, and half the time I take the truck :) Yes, all that front camber would kill tires if you do a lot of DD miles, but toe is the real killer. I run zero front toe.

Gotcha. I'm not a big fan of lots of camber on a street setup, and definitely zero toe.

How is zero toe gonna kill your tires?

He didn't say it would. He said the -3.5* of camber would wear the inside of the tires out quickly, but added that toe is the real tire killer. Because of this he does not run any toe. :tup:

No zero toe saves your tires. Too much toe was what I was talking about, some people (especially auto-x folk) run aggressive toe to improve steering response and initial turn-in. Even with zero toe my car turns in like a beast, I've let quite a few people drive it and they all make the same comment. Even with all the camber I still tend to kill the outside edge of the tire long before the rest is worn out.

:tup:

Gotcha.


I run 0 toe up front as well, wanting to go positive though.

Gotcha.


I run 0 toe up front as well, wanting to go positive though.

0 toe should turn in better than the aggressive (negative) toe settings though...or are you referring to aggressive positive settings?

Yeah, zero toe should turn-in better than negative toe ( / \ ). Positive toe ( \ / ) will give you better turn in but don't be surprised if the car feels darty at speed.

Well aggressive in either direction will kill tires.

Negative toe (toe-in) up front is used to reduce understeer and improve steering feel. The Z doesn't really need it. Just a hair of rear toe-in to keep the car stable.

AWD cars and FWD cars usually run a crap load of toe-in with a bit of rear toe-out to get the car to rotate more easily. Front toe-out serves no useful purpose that I'm aware of (on our cars), although because things can change under compression it might help for mid-corner front grip for example.

I don't have to worry about rear anything. :icon17:

toe in is positive number, you are right about everything else. if you look at the factory specs on rear toe, i believe the range is all positive numbers

Camel toe really kills the tires.

....uh...

:wtf2:

Yep you're right, I'm always getting my negative's and positive's messed up. Fortunately I never make that mistake when doing electrical :icon14:

Might be a dumb question, but for the people running a square setup, are any of you guys running spacers in the rear to keep the track width ratio from front to rear the same as stock? Or would that be counterproductive in reducing understeer?

I run 15mm rear spacers to push the wheels out a little.

Front
-3 camber
0 toe

Rear
-2.5 camber
.1 toe

What set-up do you guys think would be best for a DD Z that may be going to a track eventually? I have the base 18" wheels and am eventually going with 245's front and maybe 275's in the rear (currently at stock 225F/245R). Need to get my alignment fixed soon so this would be the perfect time to do it. Thanks :tup:

If you have to wait more than a year before you do a track day, most likely your tires will be worn out by then....

Yeah but they're not track tires anyway, just all season. Doubt I will be doing some tracking anytime soon, but I do plan on it eventually. Till then it will be just spirited driving on some curvy roads and maybe AutoX at the most.

factory spec alignment is best for you blades.

It would be nice to push the front camber just a little for a more aggressive street performance (around -1.2) but sadly there is no way to do it without replacement upper control arms. High speed auto-x is great if you can find it locally, helps you learn what the car will do at the limit and makes you more prepared for the track when you get there.

Thanks! I'm still a noob when it comes to this stuff, but I'm trying to learn. :tup:

That's the plan. I had planned to go to an AutoX event a few weeks ago, but ended up not going because Steve offered to buy me lunch :bowrofl:

:ugh2: :shakes head:

Once you try it at a good location with a good club you will probably be hooked and back there every few weeks. It takes 3 or 4 events before you really start to reach your potential.

Yeah the only problem for me is finding one that is at a good time for me and isn't too far away. I work 6 days a week so my free time is limited.

I'm gonna have to be honest. I Don't think understeer from stagger is the issue everyone makes it out to be. My right pedal provides the back end of the car plenty of rotation on the track. Maybe my setup is different, but my car leans toward oversteering during high speed autox. I run 265 305 and I was running -1.7 camber all around. I'm now a touch positive to that as I raised a quarter inch.

Maybe in small autocross corners it pushes... I don't know. But at higher speed it tends toward oversteer. And at high speed, Id prefer to err more toward under.

Does anyone have any pics of their square setups? Im contemplating doing a Vossen CV3 20X10.5 +15 square set up, in order to get the most concave look.. My current set up is a bit too aggressive for a daily setup for me.