370 vs 135

tvfreakazoid · 04-25-2009, 04:13 AM

When they tested the 370 and 135 bmw, they were practically the same (0 to 60, quarter mile, braking and whatever else), you would think the 370 would do a little better due to having more hp than the 135. Is it the power to weight ratio or is it because the bimmer is turboed or does the bimmer get more power at lower rpm's or a combo of all of them?

My second question is, is it better to get more power in the lower rpm's or highter? What are the disadvantage and the advantage?
I asked this because the 370 needs to get really high in the rpm's to get the most power. Thanks.

MightyBobo · 04-25-2009, 06:30 AM

Generally what you're looking for is a nice, broad power band with plenty down low. Peak power means nothing - you want the power spread out well throughout the WHOLE powerband, or a large chunk of it preferably. Peak power may sound cool because all you hear about is, "ZOMG I HIT 800 WHP TODAY" - nevermind the fact that at 5K RPM, it was making 200 WHP....5.5K RPM was 400 WHP...and 6K RPM was 700 WHP. Thats just an example really, and a typical power band you'd see in a BIG turbo car. The 370's powerband isnt bad, and i think with some tuning done to the VVTL system (getting it to open a bit sooner), it might spread that power out a bit better...

Anyway, I'd really have to see the power band, but its possible the 135 makes more power/torque down low, especially when the turbos kick in (which, being stockers, probably doesnt take too long...).

BTW, Im fairly sure the 370 won the fight in the handling department, hands down.

Old Chuck · 04-25-2009, 07:22 AM

Torque. Torque is often described as the "seat of the pants feel" when accelerating. Small displacement engines are usually light on torque and need a lot of RPM's to obtain peak power at the highest RPM ranges. Larger engines feel the power when you punch it at lower RPM's. A phrase I heard once that makes sense is: Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall and Torque is how much of the wall you take with you....

eXo5 · 04-25-2009, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Chuck

Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall and Torque is how much of the wall you take with you....

I never heard this before. But I like it.

Chan Chee Hoe · 04-25-2009, 07:47 AM

Anyway the 370z's torque is very low @ revs blow 5000 rpm,something like 363nm@5000rpm with shows that it needs revs to get going.

MightyBobo · 04-25-2009, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chan Chee Hoe

Anyway the 370z's torque is very low @ revs blow 5000 rpm,something like 363nm@5000rpm with shows that it needs revs to get going.

And there ya go. So, solve the low-end torque problem, and voila.

MightyBobo · 04-25-2009, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Chuck

Torque. Torque is often described as the "seat of the pants feel" when accelerating. Small displacement engines are usually light on torque and need a lot of RPM's to obtain peak power at the highest RPM ranges. Larger engines feel the power when you punch it at lower RPM's. A phrase I heard once that makes sense is: Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall and Torque is how much of the wall you take with you....

I don't think the answer to all this is a measly 30 ft/lbs of peak torque, when you could argue that the 370 has over 30 more HP up top, and seeing as as soon as you get going, the 370 would be living in its optimal power band the whole time its accelerating, giving it the overall nod. He said the 0-60 times were about the same if not identical (I cant remember off hand).

I think this really comes down to seeing the overall power bands on the 2 motors side-by-side. I'd be willing to bet the 370's low-end power is a bit of a handicap, but thats me. I think its holding the car back.

FlashBazbo · 04-25-2009, 07:56 AM

I have read two comparison tests. In both comparisons, the 370Z won -- but NOT on the performance criteria. In both tests, the 135 matched or exceeded the 370Z in performance in almost every parameter. If you went only by the clock, the 135 would have won both comparisons. But just barely.

Why did the 370Z win? In both cases, by purely subjective measures. Because the BMW is dog ugly. Because it is less fun (although, as fast or faster). Because it costs too much.

Endgame · 04-25-2009, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlashBazbo

I have read two comparison tests. In both comparisons, the 370Z won -- but NOT on the performance criteria. In both tests, the 135 matched or exceeded the 370Z in performance in almost every parameter. If you went only by the clock, the 135 would have won both comparisons. But just barely.

Why did the 370Z win? In both cases, by purely subjective measures. Because the BMW is dog ugly. Because it is less fun (although, as fast or faster). Because it costs too much.

Well, based off the new numbers from the 7AT test (0-60 4.6 and 1/4 in 13.1), it is MUCH closer to the 135 and best it 0-60.

Also, the 135i NEVER had better handling numbers than the 370Z.

Old Chuck · 04-25-2009, 09:43 AM

speaking in general and not just about the 370Z and 135. When I think of larger torque numbers I think of the vette with over 400 ft.lbs.

sensi09 · 04-25-2009, 02:56 PM

The 135i is a good deal underrated. Dyno numbers will show the 135i putting out HP numbers that are similar to the 370Z. Oh and the 135i's torque curve is super flat with a large percentage of the torque coming on early in the powerband.

batman_4 · 04-25-2009, 04:10 PM

^ +1

alan93rsa · 04-25-2009, 11:06 PM

The 135 will put out nearly 300 ft lb by 2000 rpm's. On the track it's not likely that you will be at 2000 rpm's.

Chan Chee Hoe · 04-26-2009, 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alan93rsa

The 135 will put out nearly 300 ft lb by 2000 rpm's. On the track it's not likely that you will be at 2000 rpm's.

But on city driving,this will be much better.

sensi09 · 04-26-2009, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alan93rsa

The 135 will put out nearly 300 ft lb by 2000 rpm's. On the track it's not likely that you will be at 2000 rpm's.

The thing is that the torque curve is super flat from that point until almost close to redline.

04-25-2009, 04:13 AM	#1 (permalink)
tvfreakazoid A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: kommie kali Posts: 1,238 Drives: 2015 Audi S5; 6spd. Rep Power: 10325	370 vs 135 When they tested the 370 and 135 bmw, they were practically the same (0 to 60, quarter mile, braking and whatever else), you would think the 370 would do a little better due to having more hp than the 135. Is it the power to weight ratio or is it because the bimmer is turboed or does the bimmer get more power at lower rpm's or a combo of all of them? My second question is, is it better to get more power in the lower rpm's or highter? What are the disadvantage and the advantage? I asked this because the 370 needs to get really high in the rpm's to get the most power. Thanks. __________________ Mudders milk

04-25-2009, 06:30 AM	#2 (permalink)
MightyBobo A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 8,465 Drives: No cars; only bikes Rep Power: 53	Generally what you're looking for is a nice, broad power band with plenty down low. Peak power means nothing - you want the power spread out well throughout the WHOLE powerband, or a large chunk of it preferably. Peak power may sound cool because all you hear about is, "ZOMG I HIT 800 WHP TODAY" - nevermind the fact that at 5K RPM, it was making 200 WHP....5.5K RPM was 400 WHP...and 6K RPM was 700 WHP. Thats just an example really, and a typical power band you'd see in a BIG turbo car. The 370's powerband isnt bad, and i think with some tuning done to the VVTL system (getting it to open a bit sooner), it might spread that power out a bit better... Anyway, I'd really have to see the power band, but its possible the 135 makes more power/torque down low, especially when the turbos kick in (which, being stockers, probably doesnt take too long...). BTW, Im fairly sure the 370 won the fight in the handling department, hands down. __________________ I don't own a car anymore.

04-25-2009, 07:22 AM	#3 (permalink)
Old Chuck Base Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Florida & SC Posts: 86 Drives: 05 Tundra& 02 Subaru Rep Power: 16	Sometimes we forget about Torque. Torque is often described as the "seat of the pants feel" when accelerating. Small displacement engines are usually light on torque and need a lot of RPM's to obtain peak power at the highest RPM ranges. Larger engines feel the power when you punch it at lower RPM's. A phrase I heard once that makes sense is: Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall and Torque is how much of the wall you take with you....

04-25-2009, 07:56 AM	#8 (permalink)
FlashBazbo Base Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Middle Tennessee Posts: 97 Drives: '09 370Z T-SP-7AT Rep Power: 0	I have read two comparison tests. In both comparisons, the 370Z won -- but NOT on the performance criteria. In both tests, the 135 matched or exceeded the 370Z in performance in almost every parameter. If you went only by the clock, the 135 would have won both comparisons. But just barely. Why did the 370Z win? In both cases, by purely subjective measures. Because the BMW is dog ugly. Because it is less fun (although, as fast or faster). Because it costs too much. Last edited by FlashBazbo; 04-25-2009 at 08:01 AM.

04-25-2009, 09:43 AM	#10 (permalink)
Old Chuck Base Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Florida & SC Posts: 86 Drives: 05 Tundra& 02 Subaru Rep Power: 16	When I wrote I was speaking in general and not just about the 370Z and 135. When I think of larger torque numbers I think of the vette with over 400 ft.lbs.

04-25-2009, 07:47 AM	#5 (permalink)
Chan Chee Hoe Track Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Singapore Posts: 861 Drives: 370z,Yellow,7sp A Rep Power: 18	Anyway the 370z's torque is very low @ revs blow 5000 rpm,something like 363nm@5000rpm with shows that it needs revs to get going.

04-25-2009, 02:56 PM	#11 (permalink)
sensi09 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: so cal Posts: 449 Drives: _ Rep Power: 17	The 135i is a good deal underrated. Dyno numbers will show the 135i putting out HP numbers that are similar to the 370Z. Oh and the 135i's torque curve is super flat with a large percentage of the torque coming on early in the powerband.

04-25-2009, 04:10 PM	#12 (permalink)
batman_4 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: McAllen Tx. Posts: 1,038 Drives: '09 PW 370Z Rep Power: 368	^ +1 __________________ '09 6spd. Touring: Eibach / SPC / Motordyne / Berk / Z1 / Oneighty / Mines / SSR / Stillen / CFE

04-25-2009, 11:06 PM	#13 (permalink)
alan93rsa Enthusiast Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 412 Drives: 16 Cayman GT4 Red Rep Power: 221	The 135 will put out nearly 300 ft lb by 2000 rpm's. On the track it's not likely that you will be at 2000 rpm's. __________________ 16 Cayman GT4, Carmine Red, Buckets, PCCB etc.