370 vs 135

tvfreakazoid · 04-25-2009, 05:13 AM

When they tested the 370 and 135 bmw, they were practically the same (0 to 60, quarter mile, braking and whatever else), you would think the 370 would do a little better due to having more hp than the 135. Is it the power to weight ratio or is it because the bimmer is turboed or does the bimmer get more power at lower rpm's or a combo of all of them?

My second question is, is it better to get more power in the lower rpm's or highter? What are the disadvantage and the advantage?
I asked this because the 370 needs to get really high in the rpm's to get the most power. Thanks.

MightyBobo · 04-25-2009, 07:30 AM

Generally what you're looking for is a nice, broad power band with plenty down low. Peak power means nothing - you want the power spread out well throughout the WHOLE powerband, or a large chunk of it preferably. Peak power may sound cool because all you hear about is, "ZOMG I HIT 800 WHP TODAY" - nevermind the fact that at 5K RPM, it was making 200 WHP....5.5K RPM was 400 WHP...and 6K RPM was 700 WHP. Thats just an example really, and a typical power band you'd see in a BIG turbo car. The 370's powerband isnt bad, and i think with some tuning done to the VVTL system (getting it to open a bit sooner), it might spread that power out a bit better...

Anyway, I'd really have to see the power band, but its possible the 135 makes more power/torque down low, especially when the turbos kick in (which, being stockers, probably doesnt take too long...).

BTW, Im fairly sure the 370 won the fight in the handling department, hands down.

Old Chuck · 04-25-2009, 08:22 AM

Torque. Torque is often described as the "seat of the pants feel" when accelerating. Small displacement engines are usually light on torque and need a lot of RPM's to obtain peak power at the highest RPM ranges. Larger engines feel the power when you punch it at lower RPM's. A phrase I heard once that makes sense is: Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall and Torque is how much of the wall you take with you....

eXo5 · 04-25-2009, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Chuck

Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall and Torque is how much of the wall you take with you....

I never heard this before. But I like it.

Chan Chee Hoe · 04-25-2009, 08:47 AM

Anyway the 370z's torque is very low @ revs blow 5000 rpm,something like 363nm@5000rpm with shows that it needs revs to get going.

MightyBobo · 04-25-2009, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Chuck

Torque. Torque is often described as the "seat of the pants feel" when accelerating. Small displacement engines are usually light on torque and need a lot of RPM's to obtain peak power at the highest RPM ranges. Larger engines feel the power when you punch it at lower RPM's. A phrase I heard once that makes sense is: Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall and Torque is how much of the wall you take with you....

I don't think the answer to all this is a measly 30 ft/lbs of peak torque, when you could argue that the 370 has over 30 more HP up top, and seeing as as soon as you get going, the 370 would be living in its optimal power band the whole time its accelerating, giving it the overall nod. He said the 0-60 times were about the same if not identical (I cant remember off hand).

I think this really comes down to seeing the overall power bands on the 2 motors side-by-side. I'd be willing to bet the 370's low-end power is a bit of a handicap, but thats me. I think its holding the car back.

MightyBobo · 04-25-2009, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chan Chee Hoe

Anyway the 370z's torque is very low @ revs blow 5000 rpm,something like 363nm@5000rpm with shows that it needs revs to get going.

And there ya go. So, solve the low-end torque problem, and voila.

FlashBazbo · 04-25-2009, 08:56 AM

I have read two comparison tests. In both comparisons, the 370Z won -- but NOT on the performance criteria. In both tests, the 135 matched or exceeded the 370Z in performance in almost every parameter. If you went only by the clock, the 135 would have won both comparisons. But just barely.

Why did the 370Z win? In both cases, by purely subjective measures. Because the BMW is dog ugly. Because it is less fun (although, as fast or faster). Because it costs too much.

Endgame · 04-25-2009, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlashBazbo

I have read two comparison tests. In both comparisons, the 370Z won -- but NOT on the performance criteria. In both tests, the 135 matched or exceeded the 370Z in performance in almost every parameter. If you went only by the clock, the 135 would have won both comparisons. But just barely.

Why did the 370Z win? In both cases, by purely subjective measures. Because the BMW is dog ugly. Because it is less fun (although, as fast or faster). Because it costs too much.

Well, based off the new numbers from the 7AT test (0-60 4.6 and 1/4 in 13.1), it is MUCH closer to the 135 and best it 0-60.

Also, the 135i NEVER had better handling numbers than the 370Z.

Old Chuck · 04-25-2009, 10:43 AM

speaking in general and not just about the 370Z and 135. When I think of larger torque numbers I think of the vette with over 400 ft.lbs.

sensi09 · 04-25-2009, 03:56 PM

The 135i is a good deal underrated. Dyno numbers will show the 135i putting out HP numbers that are similar to the 370Z. Oh and the 135i's torque curve is super flat with a large percentage of the torque coming on early in the powerband.

batman_4 · 04-25-2009, 05:10 PM

^ +1

alan93rsa · 04-26-2009, 12:06 AM

The 135 will put out nearly 300 ft lb by 2000 rpm's. On the track it's not likely that you will be at 2000 rpm's.

initialgemini · 04-26-2009, 03:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tvfreakazoid

When they tested the 370 and 135 bmw, they were practically the same (0 to 60, quarter mile, braking and whatever else), you would think the 370 would do a little better due to having more hp than the 135. Is it the power to weight ratio or is it because the bimmer is turboed or does the bimmer get more power at lower rpm's or a combo of all of them?

My second question is, is it better to get more power in the lower rpm's or highter? What are the disadvantage and the advantage?
I asked this because the 370 needs to get really high in the rpm's to get the most power. Thanks.

If you want to bench race the two, the 135 and the 370Z have near identical acceleration times from 0-60, travel time to come to complete stop (the 135 has 6 piston brakes), and similar peak HP and TQ numbers.

However, the 370Z is said, according to several magazine reviews, to take the cake in skid pad tests and track times.

So lets compare the engines. The N54 is a beast of an engine. The stock power band on that engine is near linear. It responds very well to mods. For a twin turbo engine, its a doesn't have a problem with turbo lag and both turbos spool very quickly. Keep in mind, at stock settings the boost is only at 6psi which is fairly conservative for a twin turbo engine.

The VQ37HR is an NA engine. great power band as well. At this point it comes to drivers preference. Do you like the feel of a turbo car or NA. Rule of thumb goes that turbo cars have great high end power. If you take a look at some turbo dyno queens, the powerbands look like linear graphs. However, NA engines are known for having instantaneous power on tap. A well tuned NA car can do probably do circles around a typical "dyno queen" turbo engine powered car.

I've test drove both cars. You're not really gonna feel the difference comparing low ends of the car. If this is your daily driver, you don't want something that snaps your neck every time you accelerate from a stop light, or seem like its gonna launch into the car in front of you in stop and go traffic. Neither of these will do it.
My only gripe with the 135 was this: The 135 has a shorter wheel base than the 370. It also doesn't sit as low as the 370. This causes it to fall below in handling performance than the 370. Comparing the drive between the two, I personally enjoyed the ride in the 370. It felt more sports oriented, exhilarating, and more willing to slighshot around corners.

Sorry for the wall of text, but I hope this helps.

Chan Chee Hoe · 04-26-2009, 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alan93rsa

The 135 will put out nearly 300 ft lb by 2000 rpm's. On the track it's not likely that you will be at 2000 rpm's.

But on city driving,this will be much better.

04-25-2009, 05:13 AM	#1 (permalink)
tvfreakazoid A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: kommie kali Posts: 1,238 Drives: 2015 Audi S5; 6spd. Rep Power: 10324	370 vs 135 When they tested the 370 and 135 bmw, they were practically the same (0 to 60, quarter mile, braking and whatever else), you would think the 370 would do a little better due to having more hp than the 135. Is it the power to weight ratio or is it because the bimmer is turboed or does the bimmer get more power at lower rpm's or a combo of all of them? My second question is, is it better to get more power in the lower rpm's or highter? What are the disadvantage and the advantage? I asked this because the 370 needs to get really high in the rpm's to get the most power. Thanks. __________________ Mudders milk

04-25-2009, 07:30 AM	#2 (permalink)
MightyBobo A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 8,465 Drives: No cars; only bikes Rep Power: 52	Generally what you're looking for is a nice, broad power band with plenty down low. Peak power means nothing - you want the power spread out well throughout the WHOLE powerband, or a large chunk of it preferably. Peak power may sound cool because all you hear about is, "ZOMG I HIT 800 WHP TODAY" - nevermind the fact that at 5K RPM, it was making 200 WHP....5.5K RPM was 400 WHP...and 6K RPM was 700 WHP. Thats just an example really, and a typical power band you'd see in a BIG turbo car. The 370's powerband isnt bad, and i think with some tuning done to the VVTL system (getting it to open a bit sooner), it might spread that power out a bit better... Anyway, I'd really have to see the power band, but its possible the 135 makes more power/torque down low, especially when the turbos kick in (which, being stockers, probably doesnt take too long...). BTW, Im fairly sure the 370 won the fight in the handling department, hands down. __________________ I don't own a car anymore.

04-25-2009, 08:22 AM	#3 (permalink)
Old Chuck Base Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Florida & SC Posts: 86 Drives: 05 Tundra& 02 Subaru Rep Power: 16	Sometimes we forget about Torque. Torque is often described as the "seat of the pants feel" when accelerating. Small displacement engines are usually light on torque and need a lot of RPM's to obtain peak power at the highest RPM ranges. Larger engines feel the power when you punch it at lower RPM's. A phrase I heard once that makes sense is: Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall and Torque is how much of the wall you take with you....

04-25-2009, 08:56 AM	#8 (permalink)
FlashBazbo Base Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Middle Tennessee Posts: 97 Drives: '09 370Z T-SP-7AT Rep Power: 0	I have read two comparison tests. In both comparisons, the 370Z won -- but NOT on the performance criteria. In both tests, the 135 matched or exceeded the 370Z in performance in almost every parameter. If you went only by the clock, the 135 would have won both comparisons. But just barely. Why did the 370Z win? In both cases, by purely subjective measures. Because the BMW is dog ugly. Because it is less fun (although, as fast or faster). Because it costs too much. Last edited by FlashBazbo; 04-25-2009 at 09:01 AM.

04-25-2009, 10:43 AM	#10 (permalink)
Old Chuck Base Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Florida & SC Posts: 86 Drives: 05 Tundra& 02 Subaru Rep Power: 16	When I wrote I was speaking in general and not just about the 370Z and 135. When I think of larger torque numbers I think of the vette with over 400 ft.lbs.

04-25-2009, 08:47 AM	#5 (permalink)
Chan Chee Hoe Track Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Singapore Posts: 861 Drives: 370z,Yellow,7sp A Rep Power: 17	Anyway the 370z's torque is very low @ revs blow 5000 rpm,something like 363nm@5000rpm with shows that it needs revs to get going.

04-25-2009, 03:56 PM	#11 (permalink)
sensi09 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: so cal Posts: 449 Drives: _ Rep Power: 17	The 135i is a good deal underrated. Dyno numbers will show the 135i putting out HP numbers that are similar to the 370Z. Oh and the 135i's torque curve is super flat with a large percentage of the torque coming on early in the powerband.

04-25-2009, 05:10 PM	#12 (permalink)
batman_4 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: McAllen Tx. Posts: 1,038 Drives: '09 PW 370Z Rep Power: 368	^ +1 __________________ '09 6spd. Touring: Eibach / SPC / Motordyne / Berk / Z1 / Oneighty / Mines / SSR / Stillen / CFE

04-26-2009, 12:06 AM	#13 (permalink)
alan93rsa Enthusiast Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 412 Drives: 16 Cayman GT4 Red Rep Power: 220	The 135 will put out nearly 300 ft lb by 2000 rpm's. On the track it's not likely that you will be at 2000 rpm's. __________________ 16 Cayman GT4, Carmine Red, Buckets, PCCB etc.