Top 3 SEXIEST cars

ImportConvert · 06-10-2011, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadoquad

Ah, I thought you were dogging the GTR's power numbers. Fair enough.

Lotus Elises are fast. Obviously not as fast as sport bikes

, but awfully quick around a circuit!

Depends on the circuit. If it's a short one, sure. If it's more of a longer one or the 'ring or something, they are pretty slow in my book. The mustang GT is quicker, and it's a muscle car. Also, the brakes are pretty pathetic. All-in-all, it's a raw experience and whatnot, but it's far from the performance powerhouse people make it out to be based on everything I have heard from those who actually own them. The car is mainly about fun. Not necessarily going fast.

AS to the GT-R, it's the opposite. It's all about going fast, and fun is a secondary consideration. (AWD, automatic, etc.)

ImportConvert · 06-10-2011, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilsonp

I think you totally misread his admittedly difficult to parse writing.

He is saying the GT-R is a supercar, and the 370Z as the top sportscar in the Nissan line-up is under powered.

And most people said the NSX was under powered for years, until one embarrassed them on a track (it was definitely under powered in the 2000's though).

It isn't about peak horsepower, it's about performance, and the 370Z was leading until the 2011 Mustang GT came out, and it is still pretty close, which the 350Z - 370Z update brought about.

I don't think a variable valve lift and timing throttle-less engine with a flat torque curve and 7500 RPM red line is out of date at all - add some direct injection and tuning, and it can beat the Mustang with just an engine and I/H/E mid-cycle facelift (though some more lightness would be nice).

The VQ makes 100whp less than the mustang does. Now you are talking about modifying it--even if done at the factory.

The Coyote (Ford's 5.0) is ready to go for DI. It was built with DI in mind. The VQ would then be behind by an even larger margin.

As to the GT-R, yes, you nailed what I was saying. The GT-R is not in the same class as the 370Z and it's a Halo car. That is like talking about the ZR1 and the Camaro SS or the Ford GT and the Ford mustang in the same sentence. They may share a couple of components at their basest level, but they really shouldn't be discussed together or taken as a representation of the brand.

No, the concept of the VQ is not out of date. The implementation of it is, though. Nissan needs to scrap the engine, and keep the knowledge gained from it. Just like GM did with the LS1 and Ford did with the 4.6L 2 and 3V engines. Great ideas, but they have a lot of room to be improved upon and reached the peak of their limitations without a re-do.

As to the NSX. Yeah, if my stock 150K mile Trans Am stomped one, it was underpowered for the money. It might have gotten around my old '95 F-body, but the beating wouldn't have been significant for sure. The NSX is like a supermodel with a great personality and a picture perfect smile that doesn't know how to make a sandwich.

b1adesofcha0s · 06-10-2011, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

The VQ makes 100whp less than the mustang does. Now you are talking about modifying it--even if done at the factory.

The Coyote (Ford's 5.0) is ready to go for DI. It was built with DI in mind. The VQ would then be behind by an even larger margin.

As to the GT-R, yes, you nailed what I was saying. The GT-R is not in the same class as the 370Z and it's a Halo car. That is like talking about the ZR1 and the Camaro SS or the Ford GT and the Ford mustang in the same sentence. They may share a couple of components at their basest level, but they really shouldn't be discussed together or taken as a representation of the brand.

No, the concept of the VQ is not out of date. The implementation of it is, though. Nissan needs to scrap the engine, and keep the knowledge gained from it. Just like GM did with the LS1 and Ford did with the 4.6L 2 and 3V engines. Great ideas, but they have a lot of room to be improved upon and reached the peak of their limitations without a re-do.

As to the NSX. Yeah, if my stock 150K mile Trans Am stomped one, it was underpowered for the money. It might have gotten around my old '95 F-body, but the beating wouldn't have been significant for sure. The NSX is like a supermodel with a great personality and a picture perfect smile that doesn't know how to make a sandwich.

Isamu · 06-10-2011, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

. The NSX is like a supermodel with a great personality and a picture perfect smile that doesn't know how to make a sandwich.

the only sentence really worth reading...

and really, if she has those qualities.. shit, I can make her a sandwich

Zaggeron · 06-10-2011, 08:16 PM

The NSX was a supercar when it first came out -- fastest ring lap for a production vehicle at the time. Further improvements to power were hindered during the '90s by Japan's 276 HP limit -- any Japanese car sold in the JDM could not exceed 276 HP. Given that situation during the 90s I'm guessing that not a lot of effort was put into making higher power engines. So when the update for the model finally came out, it was too little too late.

I would still rather have one of those than almost any American car made in the last 20 years.

Isamu · 06-11-2011, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaggeron

The NSX was a supercar when it first came out -- fastest ring lap for a production vehicle at the time. Further improvements to power were hindered during the '90s by Japan's 276 HP limit -- any Japanese car sold in the JDM could not exceed 276 HP. Given that situation during the 90s I'm guessing that not a lot of effort was put into making higher power engines. So when the update for the model finally came out, it was too little too late.

I would still rather have one of those than almost any American car made in the last 20 years.

that's not entirely true bro. The 3000GT VR-4, The Supra TT, the 300ZX TT, the Skyline GTR all made above 276..infact most of them had right around 320... minus the ZX.

Zaggeron · 06-11-2011, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isamu

that's not entirely true bro. The 3000GT VR-4, The Supra TT, the 300ZX TT, the Skyline GTR all made above 276..infact most of them had right around 320... minus the ZX.

You are right that there were exceptiions, but in general the manufacturers kept to their agreement. They had higher horsepower models built for their racing series. Also, there were some special "one-off" versions of some of the cars that exceeded this limit and sometimes the advertised horse power was at that limit, but the actual HP was greater.

Some of the models had "export" versions with higher horsepower -- Supra the mkIV is an example of this.

From wikipedia

Quote:

twin turbocharged Toyota 2JZ-GTE making 276 hp (206 kW; 280 PS) and 318 ft·lb (431 N·m) of torque for the Japanese version. For the export model (America/Europe) Toyota upgraded the Supra turbo's engine (smaller, steel wheeled turbochargers, bigger fuel injectors, etc.). This increased the power output to 320 hp (239 kW; 324 PS) at 5600 rpm and 315 ft·lb (427 N·m) at 4000 rpm

Here's an except from the Nissan Skyline GT-R page on Wikipedia

Quote:

In February 2002 Nissan released a final production model of the R34 GT-R called the Skyline GT-R V-spec II Nür and the Skyline GT-R M-spec Nür. The Nür was named after the famous German Nürburgring racetrack, where the Skyline was developed. In total 1000 R34 GT-R Nür(s) were made, 750 were V-Spec II Nürs' and 250 M-Spec Nürs'. The Nür model featured an improved RB26DETT based on the N1 racing engine. The standard turbochargers were upgraded to larger versions with a slight increase in boost and the ceramic blades were replaced with steel versions. This has increased lag, but to compensate the turbo's durability was improved while being able to handle a bigger boost increase. This allowed tuners to increase the boost safely with standard turbos up to 340 kW (450 hp) at the crank. The V-spec II Nür is based on the regular V-spec II model, and the M-spec Nür was based on the regular M-spec model. Other than the addition of the Nür engine, the Nür models also included a different color of stitching on the interior trim, as well as a speedometer reading up to 300 km/h (186 mph). Due to then-current Japanese law the car was advertised as having 206 kW (276 hp) but it actually had over 246 kW (330 hp) when it left factory.

See also:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_domestic_market

onzedge · 06-11-2011, 10:00 AM

^^ Good stuff.

Mt Tam I am · 06-11-2011, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

Sorry to argue, but I was out shooting the shotguns this morning and a few chiggers got ahold of my ankles and I have to take it out on someone. Oddly, Italian shotguns make more sense to me than American one's.

I am sure you mean something other than what I am reading/hearing. What is nonsensical about a Remington 870 for instance?

Isamu · 06-11-2011, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaggeron

You are right that there were exceptiions, but in general the manufacturers kept to their agreement. They had higher horsepower models built for their racing series. Also, there were some special "one-off" versions of some of the cars that exceeded this limit and sometimes the advertised horse power was at that limit, but the actual HP was greater

it wasn't even a gentlemans agreement, that's more of a rumor, then truth. It was more about JGTC rulings with the GT300 class racing..

The JGTC or All-Japan Grand Touring Championship (I hate to say it, but if you've ever played Gran Turismo 2 or 3 then you'll recognize the name VERY quickly) is a prestigious race series in Japan, similar to our NASCAR in popularity. It was created in 1994 and it's governing body the GT-A has VERY strict rules/regulations. The JGTC is seperated into 2 classes the GT 500 & GT 300; the numbers designate the ROUGH hp limits for cars competing in those classes. Motor swaps are restricted to the same manufacturer and the car's body MUST be mostly stock and functional. Aero mods and suspension tweaks are the very limit of what is allowed, so in essence it is mostly stock VS stock, especially in the GT 300 class; are you beginning to see the picture?

While anything from Vipers to Ferraris to Lambos compete in the GT 500, the 300 is more homegrown. The cars that traditionally competed in the GT 300 class were the cream-of-the-crop of all of the Japanese auto manufacturers, and it's line-up consisted of cars like the Mazda FD-3S RX-7, the Mitsu 3000 GT (GTO) and after wards the EVO, the Nissan 300ZX & Skyline, the Honda NSX, the Toyota Supra, and a few others. Ok, now are you seeing a logical trend here?!?

The JDM manufacturers wanted each of their flagship cars to be able to compete against one another without engine modification within the limits of the GT 300 Class horsepower limitations, so they all "claimed" that none of their cars made over 280 hp at the crank (but most of them underrated their vehicle's capabilities, in essense they all cheated). What better way to advertise your flagship car and prove that yours is better than your competitors than by having your mostly stock sportscar kick theirs' *** in the most prestigious, most watched racing circuit in all of Japan?!? It also made it easier for a potential team/owner to field a GT 300 Class car instead of a 500 because it was much cheaper since no engine mods would be needed. That made the GT 300 more popular than the GT 500, although the "big brother" Class attracted fans of the exotics.

b1adesofcha0s · 06-11-2011, 03:26 PM

Isamu · 06-11-2011, 03:26 PM

troof brah! <3

Zaggeron · 06-11-2011, 03:30 PM

^^ thanks for clarifying.

It sounds like the full story is still more or less compatible with my conjecture was that their energies were more directed to getting better performance out of their relatively low power sports cars through handling and balance improvements rather than raw HP.

Isamu · 06-11-2011, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaggeron

^^ thanks for clarifying.

It sounds like the full story is still more or less compatible with my conjecture was that their energies were more directed to getting better performance out of their relatively low power sports cars through handling and balance improvements rather than raw HP.

I wouldn't say relatively low tho, at least not in the ninties
I like JGTC way more than NASCAR btw.. just sayin

Zaggeron · 06-11-2011, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isamu

I wouldn't say relatively low tho, at least not in the ninties
I like JGTC way more than NASCAR btw.. just sayin

Road circuits FTW!! But, frankly, I like almost any races where motorized vehicles are involved

Anyway, remember that my original post was a conjecture on why the NSX, as a supercar, was underpowered in the late 90s early 2ks.

06-10-2011, 08:16 PM	#185 (permalink)
Zaggeron A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,951 Drives: '10 370ZR '13 BRZ Rep Power: 18	The NSX was a supercar when it first came out -- fastest ring lap for a production vehicle at the time. Further improvements to power were hindered during the '90s by Japan's 276 HP limit -- any Japanese car sold in the JDM could not exceed 276 HP. Given that situation during the 90s I'm guessing that not a lot of effort was put into making higher power engines. So when the update for the model finally came out, it was too little too late. I would still rather have one of those than almost any American car made in the last 20 years. __________________ 2010 Platinum Graphite 370z Roadster:Touring/Sport 2013 Subaru BRZ Limited

06-11-2011, 10:00 AM	#188 (permalink)
onzedge A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Battle Lake MN Age: 64 Posts: 183,964 Drives: 370Z 240Z Rep Power: 2684736	^^ Good stuff. __________________ Koni\|Swift\|Michelin\|Motordyne\|Berk\|RJM Performance\|Gates\|SPL\|Motul\|Technafit\|Ate Super Blue\|Hawk Tommy Kaira\|Momo\|Optima\|Hella\|Hotchkis\|Red Line\|ZSpeed\|Stillen\|B&M\|H&R

06-11-2011, 03:26 PM	#191 (permalink)
b1adesofcha0s A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: MD Posts: 40,963 Drives: HypeTrain Choo Choo! Rep Power: 141	__________________ Project: b1adeZmobile (2009 370Z) \| Uprev Tune by AAM Competition \| Berk Exhaust Project: b1adeZmobile 2.0 (2014 C7 Z51) \| Corsa Xtreme Exhaust

06-11-2011, 03:30 PM	#193 (permalink)
Zaggeron A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,951 Drives: '10 370ZR '13 BRZ Rep Power: 18	^^ thanks for clarifying. It sounds like the full story is still more or less compatible with my conjecture was that their energies were more directed to getting better performance out of their relatively low power sports cars through handling and balance improvements rather than raw HP. __________________ 2010 Platinum Graphite 370z Roadster:Touring/Sport 2013 Subaru BRZ Limited

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