Worth it, to go F.I.???

98intrigue · 06-05-2011, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by delusional

im pretty sure it'll cost way over $6-7k for F.I. some guys over here went to get a quote on the price and it came out to around $13k for everything. personally, i think its very expensive for a "mod" where you can't fully use its full potential on the streets but that's just me. and it kills the reliability of the car. the shop said that under 500whp, you'll need an engine rebuild at around 60k miles which would be another ~$7k according to them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeSS

i didn't read this whole thread, but i am just going to say what i think from first post. if you have a second car to drive, and want to spend a lot of money then do it. but i must say the engine is not going to last long. with high boost. but if you put a lot of money into a car and go balls deep, i am sure it can last longer.
i know a guy with a 700WHP 350z. its a 2004, and he still has the car to this day. only has about 35k miles on it. spent 80k total on the car. the car is completely custom built , even engine. his runs VERY strong under high boost.

honestly i wont go FI , unless you wanna drop a lot of money.

Lets not spread any false information... this thread may be worthwhile to people on the fence about going FI.

The VQ37VHR is still relatively a new engine. It has not been pushed to its limits long enough to find its breaking point/weak points. No one knows that 500whp at 50k miles will require a rebuilt engine. That's the risk all of the FI guys are taking because no one knows...

I've only heard of 1 blown engine and that was with a Stillen SC, which means low power. Does that mean our motors are not safe at 450whp? No. The owner installed headers and didn't retune. That's the end user's fault.

Right now, it's all a guessing game.

mikeSS · 06-05-2011, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 98intrigue

Lets not spread any false information... this thread may be worthwhile to people on the fence about going FI.

The VQ37VHR is still relatively a new engine. It has not been pushed to its limits long enough to find its breaking point/weak points. No one knows that 500whp at 50k miles will require a rebuilt engine. That's the risk all of the FI guys are taking because no one knows...

I've only heard of 1 blown engine and that was with a Stillen SC, which means low power. Does that mean our motors are not safe at 450whp? No. The owner installed headers and didn't retune. That's the end user's fault.

Right now, it's all a guessing game.

just by reading that i wont get turbos. the car is just to new. how is the drivetrain in 370z ? lets not just look at engine.

BTW nothing i said was really false info, its a fact that any kind of FI hurts engine life. well "high" boost FI.

Red__Zed · 06-05-2011, 10:05 AM

While we are talking reliability, I think it is helpful to say a few things related to it.

Reliability is always a tricky subject, and you will hear a ton of conflicting information. My take has always been that you should be prepared to purchase a new engine at any point if you are FI. simply because you don't know.
As far as running time with FI, a lot of it depends on your tune and how you drive, rather than just the power you are laying down. If you are running your Z hard with 4-500 WHP, you will need a rebuild before 50k...most likely, a stock Z run hard would probably need some TLC around that point anyways. Some of it is also just luck and chance.

To that point, I've owned a couple boosted S2000's, and so has one of my friends. We had similar builds set up by inline pro, except I was gutsier and turned up the boost more. He ran ~458 whp, mine was laying 515 to the wheels. His car lasted about 10,000 before his engine was beyond saving. Of course, this dude drove hard for all of those miles....

I put about 20,000 on mine, including a bunch of drag passes, and when we tore down the engine there was nothing worse for the wear...probably because I wasn't running around at 10,000 rpms to get milk.

Red__Zed · 06-05-2011, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeSS

just by reading that i wont get turbos. the car is just to new. how is the drivetrain in 370z ? lets not just look at engine.

BTW nothing i said was really false info, its a fact that any kind of FI hurts engine life. well "high" boost FI.

I don't think anyone has really tested the limits of the diff and trans yet, but I feel they won't be that high.

98intrigue · 06-05-2011, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

While we are talking reliability, I think it is helpful to say a few things related to it.

Reliability is always a tricky subject, and you will hear a ton of conflicting information. My take has always been that you should be prepared to purchase a new engine at any point if you are FI. simply because you don't know.
As far as running time with FI, a lot of it depends on your tune and how you drive, rather than just the power you are laying down. If you are running your Z hard with 4-500 WHP, you will need a rebuild before 50k...most likely, a stock Z run hard would probably need some TLC around that point anyways. Some of it is also just luck and chance.

To that point, I've owned a couple boosted S2000's, and so has one of my friends. We had similar builds set up by inline pro, except I was gutsier and turned up the boost more. He ran ~458 whp, mine was laying 515 to the wheels. His car lasted about 10,000 before his engine was beyond saving. Of course, this dude drove hard for all of those miles....

I put about 20,000 on mine, including a bunch of drag passes, and when we tore down the engine there was nothing worse for the wear...probably because I wasn't running around at 10,000 rpms to get milk.

A good tune and luck will go a FAR way

I agree...whomever goes FI should always "plan" on rebuilding their engine down the road.

I beat the hell out of my single turbo G35. It was boosted from 62k miles to 113k miles when I sold it. It had close to 200 drag passes and I didn't exactly drive it cautiosly on the street. Granted, it was only making around 350whp....but I had one of the most reliable FI VQs to date.

With the 370Z, I'm much more cautious. Not only due to the oil consumption and oil temp issues, but also becuase I'm running more boost/hp.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

I don't think anyone has really tested the limits of the diff and trans yet, but I feel they won't be that high.

Same thing... the car is still too new to know. If the G35/350Z transmission can handle upwards of 800-1000whp, I don't think the 370Z transmission will have any problem. The thing that sucked about the earlier year G35/350Z transmission was the synchros. My old G35 went through to transmissions.

Brazilbro · 06-05-2011, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 98intrigue

Same thing... the car is still too new to know. If the G35/350Z transmission can handle upwards of 800-1000whp, I don't think the 370Z transmission will have any problem. The thing that sucked about the earlier year G35/350Z transmission was the synchros. My old G35 went through to transmissions.

Ya, Sound Performance and Injected Performance both run 1000+whp on the stock 6spds. They seem pretty stout. I think anything under 700whp stock parts will hold up fine - the clutch. Might need axles if your running slicks.

DIGItonium · 06-05-2011, 05:01 PM

The amount of power Brazilbro is pushing looks plenty for daily driving. This car has plenty of room for more power to safely accelerate briskly in 1st and 2nd, and safely have a bit of fun passing in 3rd and 4th without being wreckless. I drive my dad's z32-tt, and it is quite fun even at half throttle.

I'm happy to say I have officially placed an order for the GTM stage 2 tt. Set will consist of the kit, gtr intake Plenum, and f.I. hfc to compliment the Tdx exhaust. Roughly under 450whp 6.5psi tailored for daily driving. I don't drive hard... just enjoy the feeling with big grin on my face.

b1adesofcha0s · 06-05-2011, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIGItonium

The amount of power Brazilbro is pushing looks plenty for daily driving. This car has plenty of room for more power to safely accelerate briskly in 1st and 2nd, and safely have a bit of fun passing in 3rd and 4th without being wreckless. I drive my dad's z32-tt, and it is quite fun even at half throttle.

I'm happy to say I have officially placed an order for the GTM stage 2 tt. Set will consist of the kit, gtr intake Plenum, and f.I. hfc to compliment the Tdx exhaust. Roughly under 450whp 6.5psi tailored for daily driving. I don't drive hard... just enjoy the feeling with big grin on my face.

Footloose301 · 06-05-2011, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIGItonium

The amount of power Brazilbro is pushing looks plenty for daily driving. This car has plenty of room for more power to safely accelerate briskly in 1st and 2nd, and safely have a bit of fun passing in 3rd and 4th without being wreckless. I drive my dad's z32-tt, and it is quite fun even at half throttle.

I'm happy to say I have officially placed an order for the GTM stage 2 tt. Set will consist of the kit, gtr intake Plenum, and f.I. hfc to compliment the Tdx exhaust. Roughly under 450whp 6.5psi tailored for daily driving. I don't drive hard... just enjoy the feeling with big grin on my face.

What was the cost of the kit + plenum? This is same setup I plan to order.

FromG2Z · 06-05-2011, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIGItonium

The amount of power Brazilbro is pushing looks plenty for daily driving. This car has plenty of room for more power to safely accelerate briskly in 1st and 2nd, and safely have a bit of fun passing in 3rd and 4th without being wreckless. I drive my dad's z32-tt, and it is quite fun even at half throttle.

I'm happy to say I have officially placed an order for the GTM stage 2 tt. Set will consist of the kit, gtr intake Plenum, and f.I. hfc to compliment the Tdx exhaust. Roughly under 450whp 6.5psi tailored for daily driving. I don't drive hard... just enjoy the feeling with big grin on my face.

Digi... what's up bro.

So you decided to go FI with a TT kit? dang... congrats man. Can you tell me why the GTM TT kit and not the GTM SC or even a Stillen SC set up?

And if you don't mind me asking, how much did it set you back and are you planning on doing the install yourself?

And another general question for all you FIers... what's your plan with the car once you want to get rid of it/trade it in/sell it for another car? Obviously, the 7-10k invested you won't get it all back right? So do you have to go through the process of parting it all out to stock form before selling?

Dembflyr · 06-05-2011, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FromG2Z

And another general question for all you FIers... what's your plan with the car once you want to get rid of it/trade it in/sell it for another car? Obviously, the 7-10k invested you won't get it all back right? So do you have to go through the process of parting it all out to stock form before selling?

I haven't even entertained the possibility of selling the car. If it comes time or if something comes up where I have to get rid of the car I will cross that bridge when I come to it.

If I thought of all of the "what if's" I probably wouldn't have ever gone TT.

Let's face it, there is nothing rational about spending $10k+ on a FI kit to begin with.

It's all about the giant F*cking smile when the boost kicks in.

FromG2Z · 06-06-2011, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dembflyr

I haven't even entertained the possibility of selling the car. If it comes time or if something comes up where I have to get rid of the car I will cross that bridge when I come to it.

If I thought of all of the "what if's" I probably wouldn't have ever gone TT.

Let's face it, there is nothing rational about spending $10k+ on a FI kit to begin with.

It's all about the giant F*cking smile when the boost kicks in.

Well said. In the end, it's all about the joy and the love we have for our cars, isn't it?

Perhaps other FIers can respond with their thoughts.

Also, I have to make sure I think of a good way to justify an FI kit to my wife if the time comes

DIGItonium · 06-06-2011, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FromG2Z

Can you tell me why the GTM TT kit and not the GTM SC or even a Stillen SC set up?

And if you don't mind me asking, how much did it set you back and are you planning on doing the install yourself?

I like the feeling of the TT especially in the Z32. The linear power delivery of the SC is great, but it doesn't give me a nice old school sound and feeling of the Z32 TT. Who doesn't like the turbo spooling sound? I'm shuffling my finances a tiny bit, but the goal is to get it paid off as quickly as possible. Once I settle down and get my own pad in about 6-12 months, this big project is financially the last thing on my mind.

In terms of labor cost, a high estimate of 30 hours at 110-125/hr. The labor charges I got quoted includes installation of the kit, oil cooler, aftermarket gauges in the stock location (requires removal of entire dash), clutch/flywheel/CSC, and rear camber kit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Footloose301

What was the cost of the kit + plenum? This is same setup I plan to order.

The cost of the kit is the retail price on GTM's website. You can order a brand new VR38 intake plenum off a Nissan parts site like Courtesy, but it's not plug and play. I got mine used from a blown motor. Look at the White Dragon project in the F.I. section. It's just a waiting game with GTM to see when they finish the intake manifold and start selling the retrofit kit. That's what's holding me up right now, but at least it'll buy time to pay off stuff.

FromG2Z · 06-06-2011, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIGItonium

I like the feeling of the TT especially in the Z32. The linear power delivery of the SC is great, but it doesn't give me a nice old school sound and feeling of the Z32 TT. Who doesn't like the turbo spooling sound? I'm shuffling my finances a tiny bit, but the goal is to get it paid off as quickly as possible. Once I settle down and get my own pad in about 6-12 months, this big project is financially the last thing on my mind.

In terms of labor cost, a high estimate of 30 hours at 110-125/hr. The labor charges I got quoted includes installation of the kit, oil cooler, aftermarket gauges in the stock location (requires removal of entire dash), clutch/flywheel/CSC, and rear camber kit.

The cost of the kit is the retail price on GTM's website. You can order a brand new VR38 intake plenum off a Nissan parts site like Courtesy, but it's not plug and play. I got mine used from a blown motor. Look at the White Dragon project in the F.I. section. It's just a waiting game with GTM to see when they finish the intake manifold and start selling the retrofit kit. That's what's holding me up right now, but at least it'll buy time to pay off stuff.

Ah, I thought you were doing the install yourself. And if not, why not? Is it uberly complicated? I was hoping if I did get a kit, myself and couple of friends could do it over the weekend... (hope is the keyword)

Red__Zed · 06-06-2011, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FromG2Z

Ah, I thought you were doing the install yourself. And if not, why not? Is it uberly complicated? I was hoping if I did get a kit, myself and couple of friends could do it over the weekend... (hope is the keyword)

It depends on your skill level and the tools you have access to.

If you're pretty handy, it's not bad at all.

06-05-2011, 05:01 PM	#52 (permalink)
DIGItonium A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Kansas Posts: 3,800 Drives: 09 Z34-TT 6MT Rep Power: 42	The amount of power Brazilbro is pushing looks plenty for daily driving. This car has plenty of room for more power to safely accelerate briskly in 1st and 2nd, and safely have a bit of fun passing in 3rd and 4th without being wreckless. I drive my dad's z32-tt, and it is quite fun even at half throttle. I'm happy to say I have officially placed an order for the GTM stage 2 tt. Set will consist of the kit, gtr intake Plenum, and f.I. hfc to compliment the Tdx exhaust. Roughly under 450whp 6.5psi tailored for daily driving. I don't drive hard... just enjoy the feeling with big grin on my face. __________________

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06-05-2011, 10:05 AM	#48 (permalink)
Red__Zed A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: window seat Posts: 28,940 Drives: Mostly on two wheels Rep Power: 120	While we are talking reliability, I think it is helpful to say a few things related to it. Reliability is always a tricky subject, and you will hear a ton of conflicting information. My take has always been that you should be prepared to purchase a new engine at any point if you are FI. simply because you don't know. As far as running time with FI, a lot of it depends on your tune and how you drive, rather than just the power you are laying down. If you are running your Z hard with 4-500 WHP, you will need a rebuild before 50k...most likely, a stock Z run hard would probably need some TLC around that point anyways. Some of it is also just luck and chance. To that point, I've owned a couple boosted S2000's, and so has one of my friends. We had similar builds set up by inline pro, except I was gutsier and turned up the boost more. He ran ~458 whp, mine was laying 515 to the wheels. His car lasted about 10,000 before his engine was beyond saving. Of course, this dude drove hard for all of those miles.... I put about 20,000 on mine, including a bunch of drag passes, and when we tore down the engine there was nothing worse for the wear...probably because I wasn't running around at 10,000 rpms to get milk.