can't decide if this is the right car for me
 

trying to decide between this and the RX-8 R3 but the only comparisons I can find are of power, I'm wondering about the gearboxes and the handling. The 350Z seems to be known as a Japanese muscle car (so I've heard) so I'm wondering if the 370z is still power first, and handling second? My friend has an s2k which is why I'm leaning more towards the RX-8, it has a similar feel, but I'm trying to figure out if the handling/gearbox in the 370z is really that far off from the RX-8 or is it a minor difference? I'm coming from RSX so even the 8 is an improvement in power. Everyone who owns an 8 seems to be extremely satisfied with the driving experience, and everyone who owns the Z seems to enjoy the power, but few people mention the handling/gearbox

And then there's other things such as maintenance..I heard it takes a good hour or 2 to change the coils/spark plugs in the Z whereas it's a 20 min job in the 8..same goes for the battery etc...and then there's the infamous Z insurance..

Since I'm asking this in the Z forums I guess I'm trying to give myself enough reasons to go with the Z instead of the 8. The Z looks like it has a good mix of Camaro and 8 (handling and power)

and yes, I did search..but only 2 or 3 posts came up that actually helped..and sorry if this is the wrong section, couldn't find a "competition" sub-forum

You could try test driving one and seeing how you like it.

get the RX-8 so you can be envious of our Z's.

;)

:iagree:

I test drove te RX-8 against the Z.

The RX-8 has very little power. You have to rev it to high heaven to get any power, and while the Z is similar due to its variable valve timing, the RX-8 is more work for less power.

The Mazda handles better, marginally, and has a better modern racing pedigree if that matters to you. While it has 4 seats, I find that its front seats are more cramped than the Z.

Unless I'm mistaken, the Wankel is also harsher on gas mileage if thrashed.

I think the Z looks better, inside and out, but that's subjective.

I say test drive them both.

It's hard enough to get those guys to let me test drive (apperently they only let "serious buyers" test drive) and once I'm in, it's only a quick spin around the block..can't tell much from that..I do like the much bigger community of the Z though..it would be days before I get a response from a thread in the 8 forums, and even then, it's always the same people lol although I have to say those guys are a lot more dedicated to their 8's

thanks, that's exactly what I was looking for +rep..you're right about the mileage, I guess that can even out the fact that the Z has higher insurance. You do have to rev it high, but that's the fun part about it with the 9k redline =D I agree with you on the looks and seating

Z

More dedicated? lol I just drove 12 hours down to Fontana Village for Zdayz, along with 400+ other people, partied and drove hard roads all weekend, then drove 12 hours back. And there were a number of people who drove there from further away (NY, MI). A lot of people on this board turn wrenches on these cars and love them, including me.

Maybe the RX-8 guys are more dedicated, but I'm certainly obsessed with my Z. :icon17:

lol not that the Z owners aren't dedicated, I just meant that those guys are always up to something (FI, engine swaps etc.) wheras a lot of the Z owners are just "average Joe's", probably not the ones on the forums, but there's a lot of Z owners that do nothing with their Z's except drive to and from work..but that could also be because the community is a whole lot bigger

The RX-7 R3 slaloms at around 70 to 71 mph, has a skidpad of about .90. Considering the 370Z matches the slalom numbers and destroys the skidpad numbers, it would probably be at least a dead tie in handling. That plus the massive advantage in power puts the 370Z ahead in any sports/race situation. Feel might be totally different, but that's entirely subjective anyway.

Well they need extra power a lot more than we do :icon17:

rx-8 has terrible real world gas mileage and it burns oil so get used to checking the oil often and always having a quart of oil with you. Its a nice car but it came out a year after the 350z came out and has pretty much remained the same other than cosmetic changes. the rx-8 is just plainly out classed.

I personally think the rx8 is ugly. The rx7 was so much better looking... I don't know what was in Mazda's mind when they designed and released the rx8. I am surprised people even bought them. If the 370z wasn't out then I would rather buy an s2k over an rx8.

it's funny because the RX-8 guys say the exact same thing about Nissan and the Z lol something about a crouched down frog-catfish. To each their own I guess. And idk about those slalom numberrs because the Mustang GT got a 68 or something when in reality, it's no where near on the same level as the Z.

And what about the MT gearbox? After driving the genesis coupe I've become a lot more picky about them, that thing was horrible! Plus I'm still a little new to stick shift so I don't want something that's near impossible to drive smoothly

The new Mustang GT is close in handling to the Z. It's very improved.

The RX-8's shifter is much smoother than the Z, I'll admit. Mazda short-throw shifters are terrific.

that's because you're comparing an under powered sedan to a capable sports car.

coming from an rsx (type-s i assume?), you will notice a difference in the gear box. the rsx is much smoother and easier to shift, but i have no complaints after a month of owning my z. handling and road feel are about the same or better in the z than the rsx. although, im still in the break in period, so i haven't taken the z anywhere near the limits yet.

i can't compare to the rx-8 since ive never driven one. i hate how they look, but that's just my opinion. :tiphat:

I am not a big fan of the fangs either but between the fangs and the rx8.... the fangs please...

i heard there's some RX9 or something coming out that's suppose to have a rotary + electric motor to kinda cheat itself into the sports car crowd. :rolleyes:

come on now mazadah, using a motor for torque downlow is cheating. :ugh2:

Gas is $4.35 a gallon for premium, I will pass on the RX-8 which has a real driving gas mileage of 16 or 17......

I bought a RX-8 thinking I shouldsave money, but the car got to a point where it pissed me off enough that I sold it within six months.

As a former RX-8 owner, I can honestly tell you that it was a great car with a lot of flaws. It was really fun to drive around the bends, a lot more balanced than the Z. You could throw that thing into a hairpin turn with confidence. Reving that engine was fun. The only downside of course, was the very lacking amount of torque. A minivan could smoke you off the line. The rotary has power, but not until you reach 4500 rpm's. I also had a lot of mechanical issues with the car. After 40K miles I had to replace the ignition coils, engine mounts and a few other parts I can't remember at the moment. I also had coolant issues, hard starting, flooding engine....the list goes on.
There have been quite a few RX-8 owners that have had their engines replaced due to lost of compression and out of warranty. The Mazda service dealerships near me didn't help matters. I once contacted Mazda's US corporate office to try and replace a defective SSV and they were just as rude and dismisive as the dealership. Really bad customer service. It took me like 6 visits to finally have them replace the part.
The Renesis engine also doesn't handle FI very well and very limited in terms of aftermaket performance mods. Top it off with having to add oil every 1500 miles or so and it becomes a headache after a while. The manual gearbox on the RX-8 is much smoother than Z though. If you've ever driven a manual Z, you'd know what I mean.

The 370z is very much more refined than the 350z. The 350z needed a lot of growing up. The interior really turned me off when I was cross shopping with the RX-8. The 370 interior on the other hand, fits the personality of the car nicely. There's plenty of power and the handling is top notch. The steering feels heavier than the RX-8, but you get use to it. I guess you could describe it as the best all around performer.

I have a close friend with an RX-8, and I have owned my Z for awhile now, so while this isn't a balanced comparison, I still have some decent experience in the RX. Echoing what a lot of people said, the Mazda is completely dead down low in the powerband, I mean DEAD. If you get caught short geared, it's embarrassingly slow to pull out of the hole. As far as the backseats go, they are pretty much child or emergency carpool use only, I wouldn't subject anyone of decent size to more than a few minutes back there. The tranny and gearbox on the 8 are actually very smooth, although you get to the point where you're working so much that it gets kind of tiresome, not a knock on the gearbox itself, more the entire package.

from 20-45 in 2nd gear. My Prius does it in 4.0 sec. If you leave the RX-8 in 2nd and just punch it, it takes 3.9.....

WOOT WOOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Go with the Z, the RX is old and dated and is due for a huge change, plus just like Al said the RX gets really bad gas mileage and has to be reved hard to get going. I understand power is not everything, but when the RX has none to begin with your gonna wish for the Z.

im baffled by this. Why would you need to change the spark plugs? i thought they were rated for 100k miles. Doesn't the Z have a coil rail not "coils"?

As far as maintenanc ecost I am not sure, but try finding a mechanic to work on a rotary besides the dealer. Not alot of Wenkel experts out there.

My boss has an RX-8 that I drove once, but ridden a lot. His is an automatic, though, like my 370Z.

Power is lacking but it isn't terrible if you give it gas, but he is on his second engine (replaced under warranty) and has had to have it towed to the dealership a few times when it wouldn't start. Moving it a few feet in your driveway tends to make it flood and towing is the recovery. He also has to keep oil in the car to add every few weeks.

While some early 370Z had oil problems, mine is perfect, and newer ones appear to be fixed. Probably the most common problem is the hatch not popping open on the first press of the release and you have to pull it up and press the release again.

If you need four seats, the RX-8 is probably one of the best sporty compromises, but if you don't, I would get something else. He won't buy another Mazda after his experience with the RX-8.

Car and Driver rated it third in its search for best handling cars, but the 370Z wasn't tested.

From reading a lot of posts here, it seems like most people would say the 370Z automatic transmission is very advanced, and the 370Z manual transmission is at best average. If you want a better handling, nicer transmission sports car, I think you'd need to get a Cayman S.

Otherwise I think the 370Z is the best all around sports car, considering price, performance, quality, technology and even luxury.

test drive
 

Really a test drive is the only way you'll know, but

what I did was searched on the internet

I bought the Z as the best bang for the buck car that I could afford at the time

the Mazda wasn't in the mix for whatever that's worth...

You can search and find the answer

the Z handles great by the way-.99g on the skidpad translates to

lots of fun in every day driving

maintenance and changing spark plugs?

what?

good luck and keep us posted:tiphat:

get the S2000.
- convertible definitely has more style than the RX8
- most prob handle better
- engine is a screamer
- sips gas
- minimal maintenance (compared to regular engine oil topups in the RX8)

all i know about s2000's is that i was carving with one and all i heard from him was "wait till i get a supercharger" he was behind me the whole time sometimes two turns or more back and yes thats corners marginally better handling doesn't have crap on massive breaks and 100 more horspower to accelerate out of the corner.

I don't mean to hijack the OP's thread but I'm coming from an rsx and was wondering about the difference (no one ever compares the 2 for obvious reasons :icon17:) is the extra weight/size really noticeable or was it easy to adjust to? How about the outside view between the two?
You say handling was about the same but I guess I was expecting more...in the s2k forums they say that the s2k is on a whole new level, that the turns they made in the rsx at 35mph, they now make at 60-70...did you have a similar feeling with your Z or you think they're just exaggerating?

Nephew has an RX-8. He says it's a serious gas guzzler. That car is simply not on the same level as our Z's. Besides, its style is many years old and it is due for a significant re-style and possible re-engineering. You'll have an out-of-date car with a huge appetite for fuel that will kill the budget. Nephew also talks about the rotary engine in the RX-8 as something to be cautious about.
I'd stay away. The Z is a whole different league up with n one of those problems.

http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezfl...0b704c7a33.pdf

^Acceleration is pure crap, about like a crown vic, and handling isn't very good either imo. considering all the other compromises this car embodies.

http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezfl...65b5481d51.pdf

^Acceleration is actually better than most family cars/crown vics, stops the same as the RX8, and in THIS test it gives up 1mph on the lane-change which is probably more a result of the 370Z's 3" greater width than any ability to change lanes/corner better on the RX8's part. The much higher skid-pad rating indicates that long, sweeping corners would put the 370Z FAR ahead of the RX8.


To be fair, the 370Z body style has not changed that much from the '03 350Z. It has gotten more rigid and a few changes to the motor and other tweaks here and there, but all in all, the Z is overdue for a more competitive drive line and maybe some styling changes.

Then again, I like older designs. It takes a while to work the kinks out of things, and that is why I would rather have a last production-run car of an older style than a first production run car of a new style.

having owned an RX7, I also know several folks with 8's. The engines not only return terrible mileage and are low on power and torque, engines on these suckers blow at around 50k miles. I kid you not, 2 of 6 people with 8's here in my small/medium sized town have gotten 2 new engines under warranty. All failed from apex seal deterioration.

The longest I ever heard of an FD lasting was around 110K miles, and everyone was stunned that it lasted that long. It wasn't pushing a ton of boost, pretty mild, running 13's.

As far as comparing the two, it's an apples to oranges comparison. The most elemental difference will be going from FWD to RWD. Beyond that, in regards to the weight difference, the Z is a car that in my opinion drives "small." Visibility out of the Z, put plainly, sucks. You have zero 3/4 visibility and huge blindspots, and have to rely on your mirrors exclusively to check before you switch lanes. The rear glass is also pretty tight to see out of, however if you're cautious or get a new one with the backup camera you will be fine. The handling is significantly better, a combination of the setup and RWD will make it a night and day comparison.

The funny thing about the rx-8 is that it actually uses less gas at the track (8-10mpg) compare to the Z (6-8mpg)

If you are used to the RSX, forget about the handling and all the other stuff. One thing you will miss is the room!

the extra weight is noticeable. i believe the z weighs approx. 500 lbs more than the rsx, which you will feel right away. however, imo it makes the car feel more stable and planted, especially at higher speeds. a few passengers have commented on it too.

the z is actually lower and shorter than the rsx, but it is wider by a few inches. i still find myself double checking that i am in my lane on occasion due to the extra width, but i have become more comfortable over time.

the visibility is way worse. like the above poster said, you have to really rely on your mirrors. the back side windows are worthless and you cannot see out of them. rear visibility isn't horrible compared to the rsx, but not as good.

since i am still in the break in period, my view on the handling differences probably isn't worth as much since i am still feeling out the z's limits. however, just yesterday, i was taking this long 270 degree turn/on ramp that i could usually take at 45mph max in my rsx. i looked down at the speedo, and i was going 55 without even realizing it. it felt like there was room to go faster (but i didn't try). :tiphat:

Thanks for the input everyone, it's really making the decision easier...I see a lot of negativity towards the rx-8 so just to clear things up:

1: I'm sorry for those who had flooding issues etc. but those issues were mainly on the 04-05 models due to last minute changes on Mazda's part. 06-08 isn't as bad, and 09+ (Series 2 aka 2nd gen) is a whole new car (reliability wise) the changed everything, I haven't heard a single flooding issue for the S2 models so far...they even changed the gear ratio so it feels a lot tourquier in 1st and 2nd (remember, I said feels)

2: The rotary engine itself isn't bad, it's hard for people to adjust to it after using pistions..rotary engines are meant to be kept at high revs not only to keep the engine healthy, but it's also reported that you get better gas mileage if you shift at 5k. You also need to redline it often to clear out the carbon, hence the popular saying "a redline a day keeps the carbon away" as for the oil, they use about a quart every 3k miles when isn't all that bad

3: Rotary engines are not low on torque. It's just that torque is pretty much dependant on displacement size..I garauntee you that a 1.3L NA pisiton engine will give you a lot less torque than the Renesis in the rx8. A 5.0L rotary engine will kill the Mustang and both HP and torque. They may not be effecient in mileage, but they are very effecient in size-power. I have to agree though that they do have a short life-span if you don't maintain it. A well maintained rx8's have lasted over 200k miles on the stock engine...they're not like piston engines where you can just "forget about it", they need to be taken care of. And Mazda did up the powetrain warranty to 100k/8 years standard

I did a lot of test driving in the 8 and I can't explain the feeling, it's just so smooth. If you closed your eyes and plugged your ears, you would not be able to tell if you were on 2k or 9k RPM, it's just that smooth.

Anyway I'm pretty sure the 370z is the way to go. I'll drop 1k (will that be enough?) on some decent coil-overs and that should be enough to at least match the rx8. And yea I guess I can't expect a perfect car until I move up to the Cayman's price point, but the Z does seem like a better overall package.
About the spark plugs and everything, I was just quoting what I read at rx8club, they change their plugs every 20k miles, I had no idea they lasted 100k in the Z.

1 last thing, anyone here ever drive a MT gen coupe? Maybe I can get a comparison of the gearboxes

EDIT: RX-9 FTW! They may have the electric motor, but it's for gas mileage, not power. The rotary will still suppy a large majority of the power. Anyway I don't mind it being a hybrid if it can still get the rumored 300hp, ~280tq and 30mpg highway while still remaining NA.

EDIT 2: Holy s**t did I really just type all that =O

Thanks guys, +rep. I don't mind the blind spots since I rarely ever turn my head anyway, I always lean forward and look in the side mirrors (gives you a different angle)...as long as the front and rear visibility is good, I can live with it.

you guys also have to remember that the 8 is not exactly in the same price range. They might be close in MSRP, but you can get huge discounts on the 8. I was at some dealerships a few weeks ago and they were practically begging me to take the 8's that have been sitting on their lots forever. I barely negotiated and they were offering 25 and 26k for the R3 (closer to 20k for the base), that almost 10k off MSRP :eek:. The RX-8 is a slow selling car, come December and I'm sure you can get an even better deal with the Mazda end-of-year cash bonuses.
So you really have to ask yourself if its worth spending the extra 8 or 9k on the Z (the answer is yes :tup:)

I own a 370z and have owned an RX-8.

The RX-8 has ok power on the top end due to the high-reving rotary engine, however it doesn't have the torque and low-end power the Z has. It also is setup for passengers which I never had more than 1 of. Handling-wise it does pretty well but I prefer to have more power behind the car to get it through the turns and such smoothly.

The 370z is pretty raw. It can jump off the line quite easily, has pretty good power until you hit towards 5500-6000 then it sort of goes limp. Handling-wise it does well in corners and straights however VDC is pretty amazing in corners even if it makes your car a bit under-powered. Turn it off and your car will take corners a bit faster but you better know how to drive :)

In the end it's all about what you want and what makes you happy. I obviously went with a Z and am happy.