Originally Posted by abecus (Post 1136107)

Thanks for the input everyone, it's really making the decision easier...I see a lot of negativity towards the rx-8 so just to clear things up:

1: I'm sorry for those who had flooding issues etc. but those issues were mainly on the 04-05 models due to last minute changes on Mazda's part. 06-08 isn't as bad, and 09+ (Series 2 aka 2nd gen) is a whole new car (reliability wise) the changed everything, I haven't heard a single flooding issue for the S2 models so far...they even changed the gear ratio so it feels a lot tourquier in 1st and 2nd (remember, I said feels)

2: The rotary engine itself isn't bad, it's hard for people to adjust to it after using pistions..rotary engines are meant to be kept at high revs not only to keep the engine healthy, but it's also reported that you get better gas mileage if you shift at 5k. You also need to redline it often to clear out the carbon, hence the popular saying "a redline a day keeps the carbon away" as for the oil, they use about a quart every 3k miles when isn't all that bad

3: Rotary engines are not low on torque. It's just that torque is pretty much dependant on displacement size..I garauntee you that a 1.3L NA pisiton engine will give you a lot less torque than the Renesis in the rx8. A 5.0L rotary engine will kill the Mustang and both HP and torque. They may not be effecient in mileage, but they are very effecient in size-power. I have to agree though that they do have a short life-span if you don't maintain it. A well maintained rx8's have lasted over 200k miles on the stock engine...they're not like piston engines where you can just "forget about it", they need to be taken care of. And Mazda did up the powetrain warranty to 100k/8 years standard

I did a lot of test driving in the 8 and I can't explain the feeling, it's just so smooth. If you closed your eyes and plugged your ears, you would not be able to tell if you were on 2k or 9k RPM, it's just that smooth.

Anyway I'm pretty sure the 370z is the way to go. I'll drop 1k (will that be enough?) on some decent coil-overs and that should be enough to at least match the rx8. And yea I guess I can't expect a perfect car until I move up to the Cayman's price point, but the Z does seem like a better overall package.
About the spark plugs and everything, I was just quoting what I read at rx8club, they change their plugs every 20k miles, I had no idea they lasted 100k in the Z.

1 last thing, anyone here ever drive a MT gen coupe? Maybe I can get a comparison of the gearboxes

EDIT: RX-9 FTW! They may have the electric motor, but it's for gas mileage, not power. The rotary will still suppy a large majority of the power. Anyway I don't mind it being a hybrid if it can still get the rumored 300hp, ~280tq and 30mpg highway while still remaining NA.

EDIT 2: Holy s**t did I really just type all that =O

Originally Posted by abecus (Post 1134453)

it's funny because the RX-8 guys say the exact same thing about Nissan and the Z lol something about a crouched down frog-catfish. To each their own I guess. And idk about those slalom numberrs because the Mustang GT got a 68 or something when in reality, it's no where near on the same level as the Z.

And what about the MT gearbox? After driving the genesis coupe I've become a lot more picky about them, that thing was horrible! Plus I'm still a little new to stick shift so I don't want something that's near impossible to drive smoothly

Originally Posted by TypeOne (Post 1137040)

I've owned a ton of different cars including a DC5.

I did a LOT of shopping around before I chose my Z... I drove:

350Z
370Z
S2000 (04+ AP2)
Genesis Coupe 2.0t & 3.8 GT
Mustang GT (2010 model as the 2011 wasn't out yet)
RX8
EVO X GSR( I sold my STi slightly before the Z so I wasn't really interested in owning another Subaru so soon)
Camaro SS (although it was a bit out of my price range)
BMW 335i Coupe
BMW 135i Coupe

I looked into all of them, did all of my research and honestly, the RX8 was out of the picture from the beginning. I'm not a fan of RX8s.. I never have been. They are under powered and yes, they might handle well, but they should because they are so light. I don't like the rear seat deal... I wanted a legit 2 seat sports car. So... I lost interest early on.

When I did the math, considered what I wanted and what I was buying, my choices were narrowed down to the 370Z, S2000 and the Gen Coupe 3.8.

I've come from a heritage of Hondas (about 10 or so in the last few years,) I wanted something new (to me.)

The S2000 is a great car. It has a great engine, great gearbox and it will last forever. It is pricey to get big power out of them and the rear ends blow up with the slightest of hard launches. It is small and somewhat under powered if you're used to torque.

The Gen coupe is just garbage IMO... but I know people frown upon hearing the truth so I will make this brief. It's cheaply made and the technology and heritage just isn't on par with the Z. I drove the first 3.8 Track that came to my local dealer ship the DAY they unloaded it.

I was disappointed with the clutch and the gearbox. The power wasn't really there either until you rev'd the piss out of it.

I really thought about buying the Hyundai because of the value, but then I asked myself... what is important to me?

I went back and saved up a little more cash and planned out my purchase of the 370Z for a few months. I was a member on this forum for a few months before I ever found the car I own today.

Everyone is different, but the Z has the quality of Nissan (they make one of the best supercars in the world, yes I called the GTR a supercar) and some of that technology is going to trickle down into there other cars.

Long story short (I know I wrote a book just now) but I got out of the Gen Coupe, went across the street and drove a Z and it was so obvious, I felt like an ******* for thinking of spending my hard earned money on an inferior car.

I love my Z. I would suggest going to a dealership and driving one for yourself. Try to drive them both in the same day to really keep the comparison open.

:tiphat:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed (Post 1137283)

o rly?

Originally Posted by mikeSS (Post 1136967)

coming from a X rx8 r3 owner, i got the car right when it came out. the handling and the looks of the car is what got me. when i got it there was no camaro or 5.0L mustang or 370z out. it was the 350z that was still at dealerships. i miss that car everyday. they fixed most problems in the 2009+ rx8s.

pros- handles like a dream
- fun 9.5k redline
-the seats are BA
-the R3 rims go great with the car
- VERY all around smooth car
- you think the 370z is a rare car ? think again rx8 r3. i have seen one in my area. not including mine.

cons
- no power what so ever in a straight line. still fun when cornering
- bad MPG, but who really cares its a sports car right ? but its still pretty bad for how much power the car has.
- the car is not mod friendly at all. engine wise.
- the suspension was pretty rough, and i live in MI roads which are not good.

veridic

the car is very rare, and looks cool. its a fun car, but i feel the 370z is a better buy because it has both ok handling and power in the straights. and thats what makes a great sports car.

Originally Posted by Hambone1 (Post 1138037)

They are pretty common around here. Don't see a ton of R3's, maybe one every couple of days, but far from rare.

Originally Posted by mikeSS (Post 1138167)

maybe its your area, i see very few 370zs, and only one time saw a rx8 r3. i see more Bentleys and Ferraris then 370z or rx8 r3s. lol.

but ya the older rx8s are much more common.

Originally Posted by Hambone1 (Post 1138372)

I've always felt like the RX-8 is kind of a quirky man's sports car, hence the low sales volume.

Originally Posted by Davey (Post 1138014)

Overstatement, but it is true the weak link in the S2000's drivetrain is the rear end.

The clutch delay BS on the AP2 is annoying as hell, too.

Originally Posted by 1slow370 (Post 1138194)

I've seen a z32 pumpkin swapped in an s2000 it's that bad

Originally Posted by mikeSS (Post 1138754)

ya i feel you on that. its a drivers car, but takes a certain person to really want it. over a 370z for example. i know they are well balanced and handle great but they have to many draw backs.

the reason why there car sales are low is one true reason and that is the car is just to underpowered. even the rx7 was fast for its time, but had sooo many problems with the engine. mazda needs to drop its rotary engine if they want to compete with sports cars. like 370z or mustang for example. and sales prove people want 370zs and mustangs over rx8s.

and rx8 owners always, say " If mazda made a bigger or turbo rotary its would be a lot better." but i always say then why don't they ? because there will be to many problems and MPG on a bigger rotary would be nuts. and a turbo rotary would have problems.

Originally Posted by happytheman (Post 1139657)

Just take the X out of the equation, and your problem is miraculously solved! There ya go! Glad I could be of service! +rep if this was helpful! :tup:

Originally Posted by Hambone1 (Post 1139610)

I think it's a combination of being underpowered and also all of it's quirks. I'd be willing to guess that 50% or more of it's potential customer base barely know what a rotary engine is, let alone anything about it. If I'm car shopping, and suddenly find out the car I'm looking at is some engine I've never heard of, I'm gone.

I've heard those arguments for a larger or boosted engine, and it would be completely retarded. You'd get like 5 mpg, and if it was boosted you'd be swapping engines once a week from blowing them.

The thing that is strange, is that I realize it sold well early on, and the Wankel is part of their heritage and they don't want to completely get rid of it, but considering that they have some pretty decent motors in-house, such as the 4 banger in the MS3, and even the V6 in the MS6 isn't bad. Plus I'm pretty sure they can still raid the Ford parts bin, I don't know why they aren't snagging Eco-Boost and doing something with it

Originally Posted by cossie1600 (Post 1139698)

its people like you and retards at mazda that killed the car. the rx program had always been underfunded and undeveloped. morons at mazda are too conservative to do something ground breaking to the motor (ie turbo). the motor design itself is basically 25+ years old, think about gas mileage on cars from that era. the ford parts are a disaster, see problems with the mazda 6 v6 and mpv vans

mazda is still the only japanese car company to have won lemans, nissan and toyota didnt. the fuel mileage on the rotary is also better at high rpms. its a great racing engine, but terrible for highway cruise.

Originally Posted by cossie1600 (Post 1140889)

Here is a little history lesson for you.

The 1st and 2nd gen RX-7s were extremely popular sports car. They were popular because they had great performance for the buck and they were practical up to a point. It competed extremely well with the Z cars and the Supra. It was definitely a mainstream car as everyone knew what that car was. It was like the 350Z in the 80s. 1st and 2nd gen were success in every possible way, 3rd gen was a failure from a business point of view.

On the RX-8, the car was actually not a failure. It did what it was suppose to do, revived the rotary engine. The problem is that they didn't do a good enough job R&Ding, improving, marketing it or selling it. Once again, it goes back to the morons who run the company and the parent company at its time (Ford). If they had improved on the car to make it better, the car would be a even bigger sucesss. There is a reason why they sold way more 04 and 05 than all other years combined.

Originally Posted by Z_ealot (Post 1140933)

wow, someone hit a nerve and yet somehow i feel like i stumbled into a commercial for Mazda and on a "Z" forum of all places...in all seriousness what the hell brought all that on cossie?

Originally Posted by Hambone1 (Post 1141109)

P.S. guys, keep in mind this is a guy who wanted to file a class action lawsuit on Nissan, because he didn't know that the "miles to empty" readout in the car was an estimate. Just saying

Originally Posted by Hambone1 (Post 1141054)

In between blowing his load for rotary engines and driving his Prius, I think his feelings must have gotten a boo boo

Originally Posted by Hambone1 (Post 1140897)

I just love remedial history lessons. Thanks Wikipedia! If you read closely, you will note I never said it was a failure as a vehicle on it's own merits, I said it was a sales failure.

Originally Posted by cossie1600 (Post 1141390)

I don't disagree with you one bit about it being a sales failure, especially with the second gen RX-8. Of course you can look no further than the 370Z to see how it is becoming a sales failure too. My point is that if Mazda had done a better job with the car, they wouldn't put themselves in a situation where they ruined the car's reputation and the overall performance of the vehicle. If you are going to go around spreading rumors, at least get your $hit straight. I don't love the RX-8, but I don't hate them either. I just hate to hear all these people pissing on it because some idiots don't understand how the motor work or some people are too lazy to check the oil level.

Originally Posted by OldGuy (Post 1135764)

Nephew has an RX-8. He says it's a serious gas guzzler. That car is simply not on the same level as our Z's. Besides, its style is many years old and it is due for a significant re-style and possible re-engineering. You'll have an out-of-date car with a huge appetite for fuel that will kill the budget. Nephew also talks about the rotary engine in the RX-8 as something to be cautious about.
I'd stay away. The Z is a whole different league up with n one of those problems.

Originally Posted by Z_ealot (Post 1141514)

and i don't disagree with you either, the renesis engine in the RX-8 did solve some of the problems from previous designs, but was poorly executed in the first gen RX-8's. As for the responses you are getting from other people i think that mostly has to do with your little outburst, because no offense, you come off as an @ss when you start calling people idiots and retards. It's quite alright to disagree with people and voice your opinions, but it's another matter altogether when you start insulting people that in my eyes also have valid points about the RX-8. In summation, yes the rx-8 is a great all around sports car with it's own set of flaws, but that also goes for every sports car on the road today including the Z and as for the poor sales figures, in both cases that can be contributed mostly to the state of the economy and less on the flaws of each of these cars cause honestly there's not many normal people that can afford the upkeep of a sports car at this point in time.