Nissan Ester Oil

LiquidZ · 05-16-2009, 01:59 PM

So this topic is bugging the crap out of me.

Anybody care to clarify... but if an oil is a group V, it contains esters? The question then becomes, how much of the oil is esters. Correct?

EDIT: Ok I think I answered my own question. It appears group V doesn't mean it necessarily contains esters, but it groups all oils that don't fit into the first 4 groups. It is that esters are grouped into group V oils.

EDIT 2: Would switching to a heavier weight oil have a similar if not the same effect as using a lighter weight, ester oil?

EDIT 3: Looks like Royal Purple's Synerlec technology resembles the benefits of an ester oil. Whether it is an ester, I have no clue. Check it out: http://www.royalpurple.com/synerlec-oil-additive.html

SoCal 370Z · 05-16-2009, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiquidZ

EDIT 3: Looks like Royal Purple's Synerlec technology resembles the benefits of an ester oil. Whether it is an ester, I have no clue. Check it out: Royal Purple Additive Technology

An oil company is not going to give away their formulation, but they will answer your question of whether they use esters or not.

6MT · 05-16-2009, 02:51 PM

I've been conversing with a company called "Amsoil" here in Canada about this very issue. Here's what they told me this week:

Dear ****,

I checked with our tech dept.

The oils that meet and exceed Nissan specification is made with PAO (polyalphaolefin) base stocks.

Ester based oils perform better when compared with conventional lubricants. While PAO has significant advantage and performance over ester based oils.

AMSOIL does make ester based oils but they are recommended to industrial application like compressor oils.

Using the recommended AMSOIL will not void Nissan warranty since AMSOIL meets and exceeds the specification and performance standards set by Nissan for the 2009 370Z with VQ37VHR engine

AMSOIL also allows the convenience of stocking one product for a wide variety of application / models.

Best Regards

Vijay Parany
AMSOIL Servicing Dealer

Direct Phone: 1-416-894-2480
Toll Free Fax: 1-888-776-5369

jsp@wboil.com
WBoil.com | AMSOIL Oil and AMSOIL Filter Products. Your One Stop Shop for AMSOIL also known as AMZOIL
AMSOIL Synthetic Oil Canada. Source of the World's Best Motor Oils and Filters

Now, I don't know whether Amsoil is available in the USA. But, I will be giving it a try when my first oil change is due. I'll keep you posted.

Here's a link to the oil they recommend: http://wboil.com/amsoil/5w30-synthet...r-oil-asl.html

LiquidZ · 05-16-2009, 06:05 PM

Found this from another forum:

Quote:

Quoted from Duluth Diesel in TundraSolutions Forum.

Tundra Solutions Forum - View Single Post - First oil change in 3 hours

"Not all synthetic oils are the same. Mobile is a Group III synthetic, not a Group IV. Even though the label might say Full Synthetic, it doesn't mean the same thing for all oils. As for extended drain intervals, it is fine to run extended drain intervals with a Group IV synthetic oil if you couple it with better filtration. Not all oil filters are created equal either. Fram and other cheap oil filters don't filter much below 35 micron and are just cellulose (paper based) filters. Higher quality oil filters have synthetic media, not paper, and filter much better. AMSOIL Eao oil filters filter down to 15 micron, and their bypass filtration systems filter down to 2 micron at 98% efficiency.

There are many oils out there that call themselves synthetic, but not all are created equal, and that's important to know. You do get what you pay for. Group III synthetic oils only use about 12% synthetic base stocks. The rest is hyrdocracked petroleum base stocks. For major oil companies who have their money in crude oil refining, the word "synthetic" is merely a marketing term. It does not mean 100%, but just that a percentage of synthetic base stock goes into their product.

The oils that are commonly mentioned are Group II and Group III synthetics with the exception of Royal Purple, which is a Group V. AMSOIL is a Group IV synthetic (PAO) but also uses Group V Ester technology. It gives you the best of Group IV and Group V synthetics. Mobil 1 is a Group III synthetic. AMSOIL is a Group IV synthetic.

In the late 1990s, Castrol started selling an oil made from Group III base oil and called it SynTec Full Synthetic. Mobil sued Castrol, asserting that this oil was not synthetic, but simply a highly refined petroleum oil, and therefore it was false advertising to call it synthetic. In 1999, Mobil lost their lawsuit. It was decided that the word "synthetic" was a marketing term and referred to properties, not to production methods or ingredients. Castrol continues to make SynTec out of Group III base oils, that is highly purified mineral oil with most all of the cockroach bits removed.

Shortly after Mobil lost their lawsuit, most oil companies started reformulating their synthetic oils to use Group III base stocks instead of PAOs or diester stocks as their primary component. Most of the "synthetic oil" you can buy today is actually mostly made of this highly-distilled and purified dino-juice called Group III oil. Group III base oils cost about half as much as the synthetics. By using a blend of mostly Group III oils and a smaller amount of "true" synthetics, the oil companies can produce a product that has some of the same properties as the "true" synthetics, and nearly the same cost as the Group III oil. AMSOIL differs from Group III oils. As a Group IV oil, it uses 100% pure synthetic base stocks. This is why you can run it for longer intervals.

Synthetic oils were originally designed for the purpose of having a very pure base oil with excellent properties. By starting from scratch and building up your oil molecules from little pieces, you can pretty much guarantee that every molecule in the oil is just like every other molecule, and therefore the properties are exactly what you designed in, not compromised by impurities. Synthetics were thus originally a reaction to the relatively poor refining processes available from about 1930 to about 1990. The original synthetics were designed for the Army Air Force in WW II. They simply could not make their high- performance turbo-charged radial engines stay alive on the available motor oils of the time.

One process for making synthetic base oils is to start with a chemical called an olefin, and make new molecules by attaching them to each other in long chains, hence "poly." The primary advantage of Poly-Alpha-Olefin "PAO" base oil is that all the molecules in the base oil are pretty much identical, so it's easy to get the base oil to behave exactly as you like. PAOs are called Group IV base oils.

These PAO base oils have an enormous advantage over mineral base oils in low temperature performance and in resistance to oxidation, which is critical in keeping the oil from forming acids.

Another type of base oil is made from refined and processed esters and is called Group V. Esters start life as fatty acids in plants and animals, which are then chemically combined into esters, diesters, and polyesters. Group V base stocks are the most expensive of all to produce. However, the esters are polar molecules and have very significant solvent properties - an ester base oil all by itself will do a very decent job of keeping your engine clean. So, people who are serious about making a superior oil will usually mix some Group V oils into their base stock.

Oils that are strictly Group V ester oils tend to be better suited for high RPM, hot running, air cooled engines. 100% ester based oils are usually more expensive than Group IV oils, and don't have the longevity of PAO (Group IV) or PAO/Ester mixes oils. Group V oils perform very well in the shorter term. Oils like Royal Purple and Redline are Group V oils. They perform very well in race engines and in applications where drain intervals are factory spec or shorter, whereas Group IV oils are better suited for the long haul of extended intervals.

Whatever oil you choose, know what you are buying. Just because the jug says "synthetic" doesn't mean it is made from 100% pure synthetic base stocks."

Royal Purple not for your Dakota - Off Topic

So according to this guy, Royal Purple is a group V, synthetic oil with ester technology. That makes sense as Royal Purple's Synerlec technology sounds like it is indeed ester based. Here is a description of Synerlec as per Royal Purple: Royal Purple Additive Technology

Also, he states Amsoil is a group IV synthetic with group V esters added to the oil.

Even though he mentions stay away from Royal Purple, I think what he's saying is that Amsoil will do the same for less.

I hate to base my opinion off of one person's remarks, but I had an initial feeling that Royal Purple and its Synerlec technology would be a very excellent choice for the VQ37VHR.

We still need independent tests with OUR motor though...

05-16-2009, 01:59 PM	#1 (permalink)
LiquidZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 1,940 Drives: Mag. Black 2009 370Z Rep Power: 705	So this topic is bugging the crap out of me. Anybody care to clarify... but if an oil is a group V, it contains esters? The question then becomes, how much of the oil is esters. Correct? EDIT: Ok I think I answered my own question. It appears group V doesn't mean it necessarily contains esters, but it groups all oils that don't fit into the first 4 groups. It is that esters are grouped into group V oils. EDIT 2: Would switching to a heavier weight oil have a similar if not the same effect as using a lighter weight, ester oil? EDIT 3: Looks like Royal Purple's Synerlec technology resembles the benefits of an ester oil. Whether it is an ester, I have no clue. Check it out: http://www.royalpurple.com/synerlec-oil-additive.html __________________ Last edited by LiquidZ; 05-16-2009 at 02:19 PM.

05-16-2009, 02:51 PM	#3 (permalink)
6MT A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2009 Location: ITU Zone 2 Posts: 22,459 Drives: Reliant Robin Rep Power: 1791	I've been conversing with a company called "Amsoil" here in Canada about this very issue. Here's what they told me this week: Dear ***, I checked with our tech dept. The oils that meet and exceed Nissan specification is made with PAO (polyalphaolefin) base stocks. Ester based oils perform better when compared with conventional lubricants. While PAO has significant advantage and performance over ester based oils. AMSOIL does make ester based oils but they are recommended to industrial application like compressor oils. Using the recommended AMSOIL will not void Nissan warranty since AMSOIL meets and exceeds the specification and performance standards set by Nissan for the 2009 370Z with VQ37VHR engine AMSOIL also allows the convenience of stocking one product for a wide variety of application / models. Best Regards Vijay Parany AMSOIL Servicing Dealer Direct Phone: 1-416-894-2480 Toll Free Fax: 1-888-776-5369 jsp@wboil.com WBoil.com \| AMSOIL Oil and AMSOIL Filter Products. Your One Stop Shop for AMSOIL also known as AMZOIL AMSOIL Synthetic Oil Canada. Source of the World's Best Motor Oils and Filters Now, I don't know whether Amsoil is available in the USA. But, I will be giving it a try when my first oil change is due. I'll keep you posted. Here's a link to the oil they recommend: http://wboil.com/amsoil/5w30-synthet...r-oil-asl.html Last edited by 6MT; 05-16-2009 at 02:57 PM.*