Nissan Ester Oil

wstar · 04-15-2009, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molamann

Isn't Mobil 1 also considered ester oil?

It seems regular Mobil 1 does not contain the esters we want, but Mobil 1 Extended Performance may, although the details are fuzzy. Most oil manufacturers aren't very transparent on these issues, unfortunately.

Also, it's interesting to note that the patent Nissan got on their Ester Oil mostly isn't about the actual esters, it's about suspended metallic nano-particles added to their formula to help properly lubricate the Diamond-Like Coating (DLC) on the VVEL parts. Apparently some in-the-know types think this isn't very innovative anyways (the suspended particle thing), and any good quality synthetic with clingy esters is going to work just as well as their special sauce.

I'm mostly going with the Motul 300V because (a) they're one of the only ones that come right out and claim that their base oil is ester (not just some mixed in additive), (b) 300V is their flagship/premium product, and (c) it's a very large and well-respected brand, compared to some of the other boutique oils out there that make claims of being on par with this stuff.

Between the 300V and the K&N filter, I'm looking at somewhere around $95 cost per oil change DIY (no labor charges), but it's worth it to me. I want this engine to turn out like my last one (an LS1): 100K miles of hard-*** abusive driving, and not a single internal problem or leak developed, thanks to overzealous maintenance practices. That engine's getting moved to another vehicle soon where I suspect it will continue to have many more thousands of miles without issue.

ETA: I should note that LS1 used Mobil One its whole life, so I am a fan of that oil. I just feel safer with an ester-based oil in the VQ37VHR after reading up on all of this stuff.

Pushing_Tin · 04-15-2009, 01:13 AM

Call me crazy or dumb, but with all of the money we waste on frivolous things an extra $50 a year for the recommended oil is worth it to me. I had my first oil change today and the dealer charged me $10 a quart for the ester.

SoCal 370Z · 04-15-2009, 01:50 AM

Oil arguments will go on until there is no more oil. I've following them for decades now, and probably the best answer I've read consistently is to use a good quality motor oil and change it often, along with the oil filter. Regarding any upper-end sounds, if you are hearing those noises after the engine has warmed-up then the upper-end is simply not receiving the proper lubrication as the oil circulation is in play. Having to use clinging additives to prevent these is a design flaw. You'd be better off simply adding a preoiler.

wstar · 04-15-2009, 03:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCal 370Z

Oil arguments will go on until there is no more oil. I've following them for decades now, and probably the best answer I've read consistently is to use a good quality motor oil and change it often, along with the oil filter. Regarding any upper-end sounds, if you are hearing those noises after the engine has warmed-up then the upper-end is simply not receiving the proper lubrication as the oil circulation is in play. Having to use clinging additives to prevent these is a design flaw. You'd be better off simply adding a preoiler.

The VVEL's design is pretty unique, I'm not gonna knock Nissan for saying it has special oiling requirements. As far as "having to use XX additives to prevent Y", this is something that's been going on with oil and engine forever. That's why API SA-grade oil is a no-no in anything made after 1930, it doesn't contain even the additives needed back then (probably wasn't very well refined either).

We're up to SM now for better or worse. All along the way, all kinds of additives have been added to better protect all kinds of engines, some of which are necessary for modern engines. Good quality API "SF" oil from a quality manufacturer (if you happen to have some stashed from years ago) should not be used in a 2009 car from any manufacturer and it comes down to necessary additives for newer engine technologies.

So if Nissan comes out with some new engine tech and says "hey this requires better oil than what a lot of mfgs are asking for (and a lot of what you'll find on the shelf) today", I don't see that as a big problem, they're just running a little ahead of the curve.

Bobba Booey · 04-15-2009, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

Between the 300V and the K&N filter, I'm looking at somewhere around $95 cost per oil change DIY (no labor charges), but it's worth it to me.

I hope you will have some used oil analysis done since you're spending so much on these oil changes. It would be nice to know how Motul protects the VHR because the results on the DE were poor. Castrol GTX showed better results at a fraction of the cost.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCal 370Z

Oil arguments will go on until there is no more oil.

So very true. Using a quality name brand oil in the proper weight is all that is necessary. Changing the oil every 3,000 miles while using synthetic isn't necessary, but I guess it gives people something to do on the weekend.

wstar · 04-15-2009, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobba Booey

I hope you will have some used oil analysis done since you're spending so much on these oil changes. It would be nice to know how Motul protects the VHR because the results on the DE were poor. Castrol GTX showed better results at a fraction of the cost.

Yes, and we'll see. I've got a 6-pack of UOA kits inbound from Blackstone, I'm going to have them look at my Nissan Ester Oil from the first change too.

Quote:

So very true. Using a quality name brand oil in the proper weight is all that is necessary. Changing the oil every 3,000 miles while using synthetic isn't necessary, but I guess it gives people something to do on the weekend.

3,000 miles is excessive for some people, sure. The oil analysis will help hone in on the right values, but I'll be playing it safe until then.

ZzzZz · 04-15-2009, 02:23 PM

For your reference, I had a baseline oil analysis done on the original oil @1000mi.

My Oil Analysis @1000mi

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

Yes, and we'll see. I've got a 6-pack of UOA kits inbound from Blackstone, I'm going to have them look at my Nissan Ester Oil from the first change too.

3,000 miles is excessive for some people, sure. The oil analysis will help hone in on the right values, but I'll be playing it safe until then.

SoCal 370Z · 04-15-2009, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

So if Nissan comes out with some new engine tech and says "hey this requires better oil than what a lot of mfgs are asking for (and a lot of what you'll find on the shelf) today", I don't see that as a big problem, they're just running a little ahead of the curve.

Nissan states the following in the Owners Manual (see pict below); there is no reference to Nissan's ester based oil in the Service and Maintenance Guide; there is reference of a "recommendation" in Service (shop) Manual, but owner's are not expected to purchase a shop manual. I feel if Nissan is supposedly ahead of the engine design curve then such an ester precautions would not be necessary and the Nissan stated API rating should suffice as this is a mass produced vehicle for the masses to be serviced by standard dealerships and not some esoteric engineering prowess to be serviced by the few who have the qualified fluids to do so. That defeats the premise of the Z from its very origins. Hey, but that's just me.

Isn't the oil used on the GT-R from the factory Mobil1?

wstar · 04-15-2009, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCal 370Z

Nissan states the following in the Owners Manual (see pict below); there is no reference to Nissan's ester based oil in the Service and Maintenance Guide; there is reference of a "recommendation" in Service (shop) Manual, but owner's are not expected to purchase a shop manual. I feel if Nissan is supposedly ahead of the engine design curve then such an ester precautions would not be necessary and the Nissan stated API rating should suffice as this is a mass produced vehicle for the masses to be serviced by standard dealerships and not some esoteric engineering prowess to be serviced by the few who have the qualified fluids to do so. That defeats the premise of the Z from its very origins. Hey, but that's just me.

This whole Ester thing started with the G37 when they released our engine and people were hearing bad sounds out of the cylinder heads. First Ester oil was the fix, then they did a software update to make sure it ran with less noise even when using normal oils. I don't know the details on what they did w/ the software update, but I presume we have it as well. I'm quite sure that API SM oil of any brand and type is considered appropriate for our engine now, and won't void any warranty. That's probably why they didn't include it in the owner's manual, and why they're not making a big deal of it for our cars: it's expensive (looks bad for them) and it's not really necessary.

But they still reference it as recommended in the Service Manual, and the warranty is a lot shorter than I plan on keeping this engine running. There's a lot of question marks in there, and I wish we had straight answers, but we're not really going to get them, ever. I'd rather waste a few bucks and err on the side of caution.

Quote:

Isn't the oil used on the GT-R from the factory Mobil1?

Yes, but it's a different engine, although it does apparently have VVEL (can anyone confirm that it does, and they're also this same DLC coating?). Factory fill on our cars is Nissan Ester oil, which is more relevant to us.

semtex · 04-15-2009, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molamann

I'm just wondering why people are going out of there ways to purchase Nissan Ester oil when Mobil one/Motul/Castrol Edge are more reaadily available?

Because you don't want to switch over to synthetic too early. Stick with conventional oil until around 5000 miles to ensure that all the seals have seated in properly, then switch over to a synthetic. That's the only reason I went out of my way to get the Nissan Ester oil. Did my first oil change at 1800 miles with that stuff. Then at 5000 I'm switching over to Motul 300V.

AK370Z · 04-15-2009, 05:06 PM

I though I would chime in to this thread. I just came from the Nissan dealer. I had my first oil change done. I was taking to the service manager and he mentioned that the Ester is "Recommended" but not "Necessary" for the 370Z hence it's a bit expansive option (to some). I still went with "Ester" for this time, since he gave me the option (FREE oil change, why not!). Not sure what route (regular vs synthetic vs Nissan Ester) I will go in the future.

SoCal 370Z · 04-15-2009, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AK370Z

I though I would chime in to this thread. I just came from the Nissan dealer. I had my first oil change done. I was taking to the service manager and he mentioned that the Ester is "Recommended" but not "Necessary" for the 370Z hence it's a bit expansive option (to some). I still went with "Ester" for this time, since he gave me the option (FREE oil change, why not!). Not sure what route (regular vs synthetic vs Nissan Ester) I will go in the future.

This is definitively a great thread, and wstar, and others, have brought to light some excellent oil points.

wstar · 04-15-2009, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCal 370Z

This is definitively a great thread, and wstar, and others, have brought to light some excellent oil points.

And I certainly don't mean to ruffle your feathers (too much

) by being so contrarian

semtex · 04-15-2009, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCal 370Z

Nissan states the following in the Owners Manual (see pict below); there is no reference to Nissan's ester based oil in the Service and Maintenance Guide; there is reference of a "recommendation" in Service (shop) Manual, but owner's are not expected to purchase a shop manual. I feel if Nissan is supposedly ahead of the engine design curve then such an ester precautions would not be necessary and the Nissan stated API rating should suffice as this is a mass produced vehicle for the masses to be serviced by standard dealerships and not some esoteric engineering prowess to be serviced by the few who have the qualified fluids to do so. That defeats the premise of the Z from its very origins. Hey, but that's just me.

SoCal,

While it is true that there is no mention of Nissan Ester Oil on page 9-5 of the Owner's Manual, I just want to point out that this is on page 9-2 of the Owners Manual:

So while I agree with you that owners are not expected to purchase a Service Manual, one doesn't actually have to go to the Service Manual to find a reference to this oil. But in any case, it is indeed just a recommendation, not a requirement, so I also agree with you that any oil that meets or exceeds the stated API rating on page 9-5 should suffice.

- Semtex <- Contrarian feather ruffler.

SoCal 370Z · 04-15-2009, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

And I certainly don't mean to ruffle your feathers (too much

) by being so contrarian

Contrarians' are among my favorite people, and friends...life, and problem solving, would be so incredibility boring and screwed-up, without them!

04-15-2009, 01:50 AM	#18 (permalink)
SoCal 370Z A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: US of A Posts: 2,842 Drives: Answers Rep Power: 33	Oil arguments will go on until there is no more oil. I've following them for decades now, and probably the best answer I've read consistently is to use a good quality motor oil and change it often, along with the oil filter. Regarding any upper-end sounds, if you are hearing those noises after the engine has warmed-up then the upper-end is simply not receiving the proper lubrication as the oil circulation is in play. Having to use clinging additives to prevent these is a design flaw. You'd be better off simply adding a preoiler. __________________ ( Click to show/hide ) Why I NEVER say NO to the Panda Lou Fusz!!!

04-15-2009, 05:06 PM	#26 (permalink)
AK370Z Administrator Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: NJ Posts: 9,930 Drives: 09 370Z MB Sports M6 Rep Power: 10	I though I would chime in to this thread. I just came from the Nissan dealer. I had my first oil change done. I was taking to the service manager and he mentioned that the Ester is "Recommended" but not "Necessary" for the 370Z hence it's a bit expansive option (to some). I still went with "Ester" for this time, since he gave me the option (FREE oil change, why not!). Not sure what route (regular vs synthetic vs Nissan Ester) I will go in the future. __________________ The370Z Signature Pictures ll Want to rock our forum decals on your car? Then click here! ll How to Embed YouTube Videos In a Post STOP! (Hammertime) ll Become a Premium Member Click HERE ll F.A.Q. Are You a Nissan Dealer? Click Here to Become A "Supporting Dealer" and Start Listing Your 370Zs In Our Inventory Section My Monterey Blue Z ll My Exhaust --> My Intake --> G3 Nissan's Official Response Regarding Oil Temp Issue: CLICK HERE Need a Set of Cheap Winter wheels /Tires? Then Visit The Banner Link Below and Place Your Order. You'll Help Keep The370Z Alive.

04-15-2009, 01:13 AM	#17 (permalink)
Pushing_Tin A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Eugene, OR Posts: 2,875 Drives: E63 AMG Rep Power: 228	Call me crazy or dumb, but with all of the money we waste on frivolous things an extra $50 a year for the recommended oil is worth it to me. I had my first oil change today and the dealer charged me $10 a quart for the ester.