Nissan Ester Oil

370Zsteve · 02-13-2010, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NIZMOZ

Going from the stock break in oil to Ester you will always feel a difference, then going from Ester to another Synthetic, you don't.

But the stock break-in oil is Ester Oil, unless you can provide documentation to the contrary

kannibul · 02-13-2010, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 370Zsteve

But the stock break-in oil is Ester Oil, unless you can provide documentation to the contrary

But the stock break-in oil is clarified butter unless you can provide documentation to the contrary.

Point is, don't declare something is something unless you have proof FIRST, not second.

370Zsteve · 02-14-2010, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kannibul

But the stock break-in oil is clarified butter unless you can provide documentation to the contrary.

Point is, don't declare something is something unless you have proof FIRST, not second.

That was exactly my point.

semtex · 02-14-2010, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 370Zsteve

But the stock break-in oil is Ester Oil, unless you can provide documentation to the contrary

I think this notion that Ester oil is the factory-fill is highly doubtful. I know, I know, I've heard the argument before: Nissan made this oil for this engine, so of course it comes from the factory filled with it. Per one of your previous posts in this thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by 370Zsteve

Nissan created the oil for this engine. I for one am 100% positive that they use the oil they created for the engine as the factory fill.

Sounds reasonable, except for two things. First off, Ester oil is recommended, not required, and most corporations -- especially Nissan -- have a habit of doing what's minimally required only. Why? Because they're bean-counting tightwads (just look at how they've handled the oil-cooler issue). So I don't think we can assume that a company will fill their cars with a specific oil even if they specifically designed that oil for that car. This is especially true if said oil is more costly than the regular stuff they use. I know, that just doesn't seem right. But I've seen stranger decisions made, especially whenever there are a few bucks to be saved.

More significant, however, is the TSB for VVEL noise for the G37. The G37 has the exact same engine, so one would expect it to come with Ester oil as factory-fill as well, right? After all, Nissan designed the oil for this engine. Yet, on the Infiniti side of the house, there's a TSB for the issue of valve noise ( ITB08-028a - Noise from bank 2 VVEL actuator). Guess what the TSB says the fix is? It's a two-parter: A software update, plus changing the oil over to Ester oil! Now, let's think about this. How would it make sense for part of the fix to be changing the oil over to Ester oil if it already came from the factory with the stuff in the engine? I mean c'mon, let's use a little common-sense deduction here. In spite of designing this oil for this engine, they're filling these engines up with the cheap stuff at the factory!

I do realize that there's always a chance that they're doing something different for the 370Z vs. what they're doing for the G37. Like maybe they're using Ester oil as the factory-fill for the Z but holding out on the G for some bizarre reason. That's why I chose to characterize it as highly doubtful, vs. using the word "impossible." But I don't think it's slam-dunk obvious that they're using Ester oil for factory-fill either, as you seem to think it to be. I would be quite surprised -- pleasantly so -- if they're using the good stuff for the factory-fill.

The TSB is attached below. You can also read more about this TSB at myg37.com

ITB08-028a - Noise from bank 2 VVEL actuator (amended 9/3/08) - MyG37

blackflag · 02-14-2010, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semtex

First off, Ester oil is recommended, not required, and most corporations -- especially Nissan -- have a habit of doing what's minimally required only. Why? Because they're bean-counting tightwads

But companies that spec for synthetic fill it with synthetic. Do you have a specific example?

Quote:

Originally Posted by semtex

How would it make sense for part of the fix to be changing the oil over to Ester oil if it already came from the factory with the stuff in the engine?

Wasn't the ester oil introduced after the engine already launched? That's why it's a TSB. Unless I'm wrong on that?

semtex · 02-14-2010, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackflag

But companies that spec for synthetic fill it with synthetic. Do you have a specific example?

Wasn't the ester oil introduced after the engine already launched? That's why it's a TSB. Unless I'm wrong on that?

I don't understand your first question. Specific example of what? As to your second question, I don't know when the ester oil was introduced. To be clear, it's entirely possible that they're using ester oil for factory-fill. I just don't think we have 100% conclusive evidence one way or the other yet is all. And if we have to guess, I personally would lean towards guessing that they're not. But maybe I'm just more cynical than the rest of you.

kannibul · 02-14-2010, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semtex

I think this notion that Ester oil is the factory-fill is highly doubtful. I know, I know, I've heard the argument before: Nissan made this oil for this engine, so of course it comes from the factory filled with it. Per one of your previous posts in this thread:

Sounds reasonable, except for two things. First off, Ester oil is recommended, not required, and most corporations -- especially Nissan -- have a habit of doing what's minimally required only. Why? Because they're bean-counting tightwads (just look at how they've handled the oil-cooler issue). So I don't think we can assume that a company will fill their cars with a specific oil even if they specifically designed that oil for that car. This is especially true if said oil is more costly than the regular stuff they use. I know, that just doesn't seem right. But I've seen stranger decisions made, especially whenever there are a few bucks to be saved.

More significant, however, is the TSB for VVEL noise for the G37. The G37 has the exact same engine, so one would expect it to come with Ester oil as factory-fill as well, right? After all, Nissan designed the oil for this engine. Yet, on the Infiniti side of the house, there's a TSB for the issue of valve noise ( ITB08-028a - Noise from bank 2 VVEL actuator). Guess what the TSB says the fix is? It's a two-parter: A software update, plus changing the oil over to Ester oil! Now, let's think about this. How would it make sense for part of the fix to be changing the oil over to Ester oil if it already came from the factory with the stuff in the engine? I mean c'mon, let's use a little common-sense deduction here. In spite of designing this oil for this engine, they're filling these engines up with the cheap stuff at the factory!

I do realize that there's always a chance that they're doing something different for the 370Z vs. what they're doing for the G37. Like maybe they're using Ester oil as the factory-fill for the Z but holding out on the G for some bizarre reason. That's why I chose to characterize it as highly doubtful, vs. using the word "impossible." But I don't think it's slam-dunk obvious that they're using Ester oil for factory-fill either, as you seem to think it to be. I would be quite surprised -- pleasantly so -- if they're using the good stuff for the factory-fill.

The TSB is attached below. You can also read more about this TSB at myg37.com

ITB08-028a - Noise from bank 2 VVEL actuator (amended 9/3/08) - MyG37

Nissan likes to cover ALL the bases with their TSB's and service manuals. By specifying the Nissan oil, they get a consistent test base...if it fails to fix the problem, in their eyes, they can rule out oil.

Makes sense from a consistency for diagnostics standpoint, more=so than from a requirement for use as the TSB may suggest to some.

370Zsteve · 02-16-2010, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semtex

I think this notion that Ester oil is the factory-fill is highly doubtful. I know, I know, I've heard the argument before: Nissan made this oil for this engine, so of course it comes from the factory filled with it. Per one of your previous posts in this thread:

Sounds reasonable, except for two things. First off, Ester oil is recommended, not required, and most corporations -- especially Nissan -- have a habit of doing what's minimally required only. Why? Because they're bean-counting tightwads (just look at how they've handled the oil-cooler issue). So I don't think we can assume that a company will fill their cars with a specific oil even if they specifically designed that oil for that car. This is especially true if said oil is more costly than the regular stuff they use. I know, that just doesn't seem right. But I've seen stranger decisions made, especially whenever there are a few bucks to be saved.

More significant, however, is the TSB for VVEL noise for the G37. The G37 has the exact same engine, so one would expect it to come with Ester oil as factory-fill as well, right? After all, Nissan designed the oil for this engine. Yet, on the Infiniti side of the house, there's a TSB for the issue of valve noise ( ITB08-028a - Noise from bank 2 VVEL actuator). Guess what the TSB says the fix is? It's a two-parter: A software update, plus changing the oil over to Ester oil! Now, let's think about this. How would it make sense for part of the fix to be changing the oil over to Ester oil if it already came from the factory with the stuff in the engine? I mean c'mon, let's use a little common-sense deduction here. In spite of designing this oil for this engine, they're filling these engines up with the cheap stuff at the factory!

I do realize that there's always a chance that they're doing something different for the 370Z vs. what they're doing for the G37. Like maybe they're using Ester oil as the factory-fill for the Z but holding out on the G for some bizarre reason. That's why I chose to characterize it as highly doubtful, vs. using the word "impossible." But I don't think it's slam-dunk obvious that they're using Ester oil for factory-fill either, as you seem to think it to be. I would be quite surprised -- pleasantly so -- if they're using the good stuff for the factory-fill.

The TSB is attached below. You can also read more about this TSB at myg37.com

ITB08-028a - Noise from bank 2 VVEL actuator (amended 9/3/08) - MyG37

Oh yes, I know all about the TSB. It's also from 2008. I've never said I KNOW the factory fill is Nissan Ester. I've always maintained that those who say "there is no mention of Nissan Ester being used as factory fill" (specifically you and Modshack) can be countered with the opposite argument: "There is no mention of Nissan Ester NOT being used as factory fill".

IMO, Nissan would be crazy to develop an oil specifically for an engine and then not use it. And I wish someone, ANYONE from Nissan would put this tired old subject to rest. Their silence is deafening. Putting Mobil1 as factory fill in the GT-R doesn't clarify much, either.

I actually sent a request to Nissan Corporate to clarify this in December. I never received a response.

semtex · 02-16-2010, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 370Zsteve

Oh yes, I know all about the TSB. It's also from 2008. I've never said I KNOW the factory fill is Nissan Ester. I've always maintained that those who say "there is no mention of Nissan Ester being used as factory fill" (specifically you and Modshack) can be countered with the opposite argument: "There is no mention of Nissan Ester NOT being used as factory fill".

IMO, Nissan would be crazy to develop an oil specifically for an engine and then not use it. And I wish someone, ANYONE from Nissan would put this tired old subject to rest. Their silence is deafening. Putting Mobil1 as factory fill in the GT-R doesn't clarify much, either.

I actually sent a request to Nissan Corporate to clarify this in December. I never received a response.

Well, it's looking more and more like you might be right about them using it for factory-fill. I'm just waiting on final confirmation. Will keep you posted.