Who REALLY owns their Z???

MarkGideon · 05-15-2013, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KERMIT

0% interest loan. I'd be crazy to pay it off!

Same here. I even put down less than I had originally planned when I bought it last year. Why use my money when Nissan lets me use theirs for 0%.

I have almost 4.5 years left on the loan, haven't made any extra payments, and have no plans to pay it off early.

KERMIT · 05-15-2013, 09:00 PM

What I don't understand is why people who have paid off their cars talk about others who are upside down on their car loan... It doesn't matter, everyone lost the same amount regardless of when they paid for it...

Guy 1: gets 370z pays $35000 cash. 3 years later, it's worth $12000. Net loss = $23k

Guy 2 gets 370z 0 down gets 5 yr loan for 35000. 3 years later, it's worth $12000. Is "upside down on his loan" and owes $2000 more than its worth. In the meantime, 35000 was invested and made 8% per year. Original investment is now worth $44k (net gain of $9k). He paid 21k in payments over the 3 year period, still owes $2k... Net loss $16k!

So, the fact that people are upside down is completely arbitrary. Everyone loses the same amount in depreciation. What matters is if you made your money work for you in the meantime.

6MT · 05-15-2013, 09:08 PM

Ahhhhh...... no I better not.

KERMIT · 05-15-2013, 09:18 PM

For clarity I should add guy 3

Guy 3: gets 370z w 5 year loan, barely makes the payments, has no investment. Goes to trade it in with 2k negative equity and rolls it into his next loan and the cycle continues. Net loss = his ***

birdmanx1 · 05-16-2013, 12:44 PM

Kermit, to each their own, if you are fine paying interest for 5, 6, 7 years on something that won't be worth much in the end, then start the process over with another car and you have no issue with it, no biggie then man. A basic guy 1 guy 2 analysis to show arbitrary numbers won't suffice. You are locked in a 5-7 year loan, there may be opportunity cost in terms of your credit worthiness/Asset vs Liability report if and when purchasing long term assets. Please don't imply that the guy who paid for the car cash is not also getting returns on the equity market and doing other things to get ahead.

Look man, if you can swing having consumer debt, paying interests (that could have been invested elsewhere) and that works for you

I rather be the guy at 50 with all my houses paid for, College planning taken care of, no debt, free to roam the world as I please. Being locked in car debt is not part of that plan

MarkGideon · 05-16-2013, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by birdmanx1

Kermit, to each their own, if you are fine paying interest for 5, 6, 7 years on something that won't be worth much in the end, then start the process over with another car and you have no issue with it, no biggie then man. A basic guy 1 guy 2 analysis to show arbitrary numbers won't suffice. You are locked in a 5-7 year loan, there may be opportunity cost in terms of your credit worthiness/Asset vs Liability report if and when purchasing long term assets. Please don't imply that the guy who paid for the car cash is not also getting returns on the equity market and doing other things to get ahead.

Look man, if you can swing having consumer debt, paying interests (that could have been invested elsewhere) and that works for you

I rather be the guy at 50 with all my houses paid for, College planning taken care of, no debt, free to roam the world as I please. Being locked in car debt is not part of that plan

Somehow, I don't think that 0% interest on the consumer debt is really costing all that much.

MMC Racing · 05-16-2013, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by birdmanx1

Kermit, to each their own, if you are fine paying interest for 5, 6, 7 years on something that won't be worth much in the end, then start the process over with another car and you have no issue with it, no biggie then man. A basic guy 1 guy 2 analysis to show arbitrary numbers won't suffice. You are locked in a 5-7 year loan, there may be opportunity cost in terms of your credit worthiness/Asset vs Liability report if and when purchasing long term assets. Please don't imply that the guy who paid for the car cash is not also getting returns on the equity market and doing other things to get ahead.

Look man, if you can swing having consumer debt, paying interests (that could have been invested elsewhere) and that works for you

I rather be the guy at 50 with all my houses paid for, College planning taken care of, no debt, free to roam the world as I please. Being locked in car debt is not part of that plan

Based on your response, Kermit's entire post was lost on you.

birdmanx1 · 05-16-2013, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkGideon

Somehow, I don't think that 0% interest on the consumer debt is really costing all that much.

Smart @ss

KERMIT · 05-16-2013, 06:41 PM

No one has come up with good counter arguments....

Capital gains?

Uncertainty?

Don't make me argue with myself!... There are lots more good ones left!

MMC Racing · 05-17-2013, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KERMIT

No one has come up with good counter arguments....

Capital gains?

Uncertainty?

Don't make me argue with myself!... There are lots more good ones left!

You did skip the emotional aspect. Some people get pleasure from having no debt. They would rather forgo taking the low or no interest rate and put their money to work for the emotional benefit of not having that debt.

We call these people crazy..

birdmanx1 · 05-17-2013, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMC Racing

You did skip the emotional aspect. Some people get pleasure from having no debt. They would rather forgo taking the low or no interest rate and put their money to work for the emotional benefit of not having that debt.

We call these people crazy..

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMC Racing

I've been a big fan ever since I attended the Inside Line reveal back in 2008 before the LA autoshow. I had been on the hunt for a GT-R, but couldn't find one at a reasonable price. After I saw the 370z at the reveal, I knew I wanted one. Then an interesting thing happened 2 days later, I found a GT-R at "only" $2000 over MSRP in California. That next weekend I was a GT-R owner..

Flash forward to June 2009, I was looking for a daily driver. I was driving from San Diego to LA almost every week. I test drove a 370z and a G37 and opted for the G37. At the time it was the right move since the G was a little more comfortable as a DD and I had the GT-R for the perfomance That goal required some sacrafice including selling the GT-R and G37. 1 year ago this month, we moved into our new house. Our vehicles at that time and still today are a 2010 Ford Raptor and a leased 2011 Accord. It was time to get into something fun again (on road, the Raptor is a blast offroad), so today we drove home a 2012 Solid Red Sport, Touring, Nav from Yuma..

Naaa, you skipped the rational aspect. Some people do get the pleasure of having no debt. they would rather forgo having to work 6 jobs, never worry about any job loss to keep their houses and cars, rather have their money work for them so they can afford to get whatever they want by paying hard cold cash.

Coming from the guy who sold a supposedly existing GTR and G to get a Raptor and to lease an Honda accord within a few months to end up with a Z.

We call these people DUMB FOOOOOOOLS

Congrats on being awesomely crazy for buying your sweet 2012 370z

MMC Racing · 05-17-2013, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by birdmanx1

Coming from the guy who sold a supposedly existing GTR and G to get a Raptor and to lease an Honda accord within a few months to end up with a Z.

We call these people DUMB FOOOOOOOLS

Congrats on being awesomely crazy for buying your sweet 2012 370z

Your timeline is off along with reasoning. I owned a 350z, G37, GT-R and Raptor at the same time. I sold all but the Raptor and took on the Honda lease when we bought a 2nd property, converting the 1st property to a rental. The 370z came later when I wanted something a little fun when desert season was over.

Cars come and go, but the investment potential of the last 3 years has been huge. Smart people are locking up cheap long term debt right now and keeping their cash working for them.

RiCharlie · 05-17-2013, 04:34 PM

Paid in full..

wstar · 05-17-2013, 06:42 PM

It's true. I'm a big anti-debt person. I would just rather pay for stuff and have nothing hanging over my head. However, given how low interest rates are, and how decent the market returns are, it makes sense to borrow investment money right now. In other words, if you bought a mortgage in the past few years it might be in the 3-4% range. Let's say you come into an extra $40K. My anti-debt brain says "throw into the house loan and get that thing finished quicker," but the smart move right now is to put that 40K into the market (even something conservative like an S&P Index Fund) and make more off of it than your mortgage is charging you.

Tazicon · 05-17-2013, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

It's true. I'm a big anti-debt person. I would just rather pay for stuff and have nothing hanging over my head. However, given how low interest rates are, and how decent the market returns are, it makes sense to borrow investment money right now. In other words, if you bought a mortgage in the past few years it might be in the 3-4% range. Let's say you come into an extra $40K. My anti-debt brain says "throw into the house loan and get that thing finished quicker," but the smart move right now is to put that 40K into the market (even something conservative like an S&P Index Fund) and make more off of it than your mortgage is charging you.

A man that thinks smart!

05-15-2013, 09:00 PM	#2 (permalink)
KERMIT Enthusiast Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Republic of Wadiya Posts: 301 Drives: Ms. Daisy Rep Power: 14	What I don't understand is why people who have paid off their cars talk about others who are upside down on their car loan... It doesn't matter, everyone lost the same amount regardless of when they paid for it... Guy 1: gets 370z pays $35000 cash. 3 years later, it's worth $12000. Net loss = $23k Guy 2 gets 370z 0 down gets 5 yr loan for 35000. 3 years later, it's worth $12000. Is "upside down on his loan" and owes $2000 more than its worth. In the meantime, 35000 was invested and made 8% per year. Original investment is now worth $44k (net gain of $9k). He paid 21k in payments over the 3 year period, still owes $2k... Net loss $16k! So, the fact that people are upside down is completely arbitrary. Everyone loses the same amount in depreciation. What matters is if you made your money work for you in the meantime. IMWEZL and birdmanx1 like this. __________________ Steering wheel with Z emblem, keyless entry, 3.7L with dual overhead cams, am/fm radio, ABS brakes, windshield, air in tires

05-15-2013, 09:08 PM	#3 (permalink)
6MT A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2009 Location: ITU Zone 2 Posts: 22,459 Drives: Reliant Robin Rep Power: 1790	Ahhhhh...... no I better not. __________________ Andrew 2009 370Z Sport/Touring 6MT sold 2013 Honda Civic Si coupe D/D

05-15-2013, 09:18 PM	#4 (permalink)
KERMIT Enthusiast Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Republic of Wadiya Posts: 301 Drives: Ms. Daisy Rep Power: 14	For clarity I should add guy 3 Guy 3: gets 370z w 5 year loan, barely makes the payments, has no investment. Goes to trade it in with 2k negative equity and rolls it into his next loan and the cycle continues. Net loss = his *** __________________ Steering wheel with Z emblem, keyless entry, 3.7L with dual overhead cams, am/fm radio, ABS brakes, windshield, air in tires

05-16-2013, 12:44 PM	#5 (permalink)
birdmanx1 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Baltimore, MD Age: 96 Posts: 3,175 Drives: 370z Nismo Rep Power: 24	Kermit, to each their own, if you are fine paying interest for 5, 6, 7 years on something that won't be worth much in the end, then start the process over with another car and you have no issue with it, no biggie then man. A basic guy 1 guy 2 analysis to show arbitrary numbers won't suffice. You are locked in a 5-7 year loan, there may be opportunity cost in terms of your credit worthiness/Asset vs Liability report if and when purchasing long term assets. Please don't imply that the guy who paid for the car cash is not also getting returns on the equity market and doing other things to get ahead. Look man, if you can swing having consumer debt, paying interests (that could have been invested elsewhere) and that works for you I rather be the guy at 50 with all my houses paid for, College planning taken care of, no debt, free to roam the world as I please. Being locked in car debt is not part of that plan kenchan likes this. __________________ 370Z NISMO #0462 \| ClearBra \| 3M tint \| Head/Taillights \| Dynamat \| Black Roof \| Tommy Kaira HB \| CF Parts \| Berk HFCs \| FI SS \| NST Pulleys \| Takeda aFe \| K&N \| H&R Spacers \| Swift Spec R \| SPC F&R \| Zuperman M370 Nismo Vid \| Nismo Journal \| Nismo Rumble

05-16-2013, 06:41 PM	#9 (permalink)
KERMIT Enthusiast Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Republic of Wadiya Posts: 301 Drives: Ms. Daisy Rep Power: 14	No one has come up with good counter arguments.... Capital gains? Uncertainty? Don't make me argue with myself!... There are lots more good ones left! __________________ Steering wheel with Z emblem, keyless entry, 3.7L with dual overhead cams, am/fm radio, ABS brakes, windshield, air in tires

05-17-2013, 04:34 PM	#13 (permalink)
RiCharlie Track Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Johnston RI Posts: 857 Drives: 370 Touring Spt A/t Rep Power: 16	Paid in full..

05-17-2013, 06:42 PM	#14 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3595	It's true. I'm a big anti-debt person. I would just rather pay for stuff and have nothing hanging over my head. However, given how low interest rates are, and how decent the market returns are, it makes sense to borrow investment money right now. In other words, if you bought a mortgage in the past few years it might be in the 3-4% range. Let's say you come into an extra $40K. My anti-debt brain says "throw into the house loan and get that thing finished quicker," but the smart move right now is to put that 40K into the market (even something conservative like an S&P Index Fund) and make more off of it than your mortgage is charging you. birdmanx1, DEpointfive0 and MarkGideon like this. __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

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