Nissan: A Major Let Down!

Ace · 04-10-2009, 01:28 AM

~2 weeks ago I placed an order for a new 370z in Canada. The salesman discussed what I was looking to order. We confirmed everything, and then began pricing negotiations. I negotiated a price with the salesman and the sales manager, signed the sales order, then gave them my $1000.00 deposit. The deal was all cash no financing. They told me they were placing a factory order the next day and my car would be included with that order. I was told I could expect the car at the latest sometime in late June early July. My time frame for receipt of the car is no later than the end of September or early October as the snow begins shortly after. I was assured they would be able to get me the car and the options I requested were not unusual or unattainable. The salesman told me he would keep me updated. The sales manager shook my hand and congratulated me on the purchase as did the salesman.

So ~2 weeks later, which brings me to this afternoon, I get a phone call from Stadium Nissan (Canada). I am told they will not be able to get me the car I ordered.

The gentleman that called me was neither the salesman nor the sales manager I dealt with. The gentleman was in charge of placing orders with the factory. He said he also looked after searching to see if vehicles requested are available at other dealerships.

I was blown away and completely caught off guard. I can not express how upset and disappointed I am at Nissan.

I had originally ordered a 2009 red 370z 6M Touring Coupe with Sport and Navigation.

The explanation I was give goes something like this: apparently Nissan has halted production on all 2009 370z coupe models. Nissan has decided to stop production on the 370z coupe models to focus on the new 2010 370z roadster/convertible. The gentleman from Nissan told me he did not understand why Nissan was having such a short run on the 2009 370z coupes to focus on the 2010 roadster/convertible. He also said he had to call at least two other people in Calgary and let them know Nissan would be unable to place their orders. He told me there are no other red 370z M6 Touring Coupe with Sport and Navigation cars in Canada or on order to be shipped to Canada. I was then told this meant I would need to look at getting a 2010 and Nissan did not know the pricing or availability for that model. I was told it was not possible to get the car, or possible colour combination alternatives, at all. I won't compromise the sport or navigation package.

Imagine my frustration and disappointment with Nissan. After this experience I am not even sure if I want to deal with Nissan any longer. It amazes me in the current economic environment Nissan would be willing to lose one sale. If it is not possible to get, or order a 2009 370z, as requested by myself, Nissan should stop offering them or advertising them for purchase!

I was told by Stadium Nissan they could mail my deposit back to me. I told them I would swing by after work and pick it up. The gentleman said the check would be left at the front desk. When I got to Stadium Nissan their was no check ready for me nor one to be found. I told the salesman I am giving them until Saturday to return my deposit. The salesman said it would be ready Saturday for me.

I called an alternative dealership, Fish Creek Nissan (Canada), tonight and spoke to a salesman about what happened at Stadium Nissan. I then asked him to see if they were able to find me the car I am after, as well as a second colour alternative choice. The salesman at Fish Creek will be speaking to his management team and finding out if Stadium Nissan's story is correct. I haven't completely given up my search. However, if Fish Creek Nissan comes back with the same story I will likely have no other alternative, but to stop chasing the car I want to buy.

What a bunch of crap! Nissan, get your **** together!

If anyone has any input regarding how I can locate and purchase the car I want please feel free to share your thoughts. I may or may not look into locating / purchasing one in the US and bringing it up to Canada. However, I am not sure if the situation in the US would be any different.

Pushing_Tin · 04-10-2009, 01:33 AM

It's a fact that many people that work at dealerships are either liars or morons, many times both. I would check around and see if what they are saying is true, as I have not seen that mentioned anywhere else.

Crash · 04-10-2009, 01:39 AM

That'd be an interesting lie, though. Cash up front fully loaded?? Why would they suddenly lie to NOT sell a car? Usually the lies are to UP sell a car.

I certainly hope that the story they told you is untrue. That'd be a VERY long wait for the 2010 model. And what could they possibly be changing/retooling that'd make so much difference as to totally stop production of the '09?

Ace · 04-10-2009, 01:40 AM

Thanks for the input. I am going to call around to a few other dealers in my city and in other cities close by. I was told by Stadium Nissan that I can check with other dealers and they will take my deposit and promise me the car. However, in two weeks, after they talk to Nissan headquarters the order will be turned down.

I will be interested to see if this is the case. Fish Creek Nissan told me they would check with headquarters and confirm if this is true.

SiXK · 04-10-2009, 08:05 AM

I would keep looking. there are several dealerships with new 370Zs on ebay. and of course, if you read the 350 board all the dealerships are stuck with 370s they can't sell.

something doesn't sound right about that story. why would Nissan, who builds thousands of cars a year, need to halt production on one to work on another model year of the same car? unless there was a major problem with the 09's I just can't see it.

GOOD LUCK!! It will be worth the trouble and wait!

MightyBobo · 04-10-2009, 08:35 AM

I cant help but keep reading that you're shifting the blame to NISSAN. Wrong target, friend - the title of this post should be as follows:

"Stadium Nissan in Canada: A Major Let Down!"

This is the dealership dropping the ball, NOT Nissan. Im sure there is a 370 SOMEWHERE they could trade for, they're just too lazy to look.

355890 · 04-10-2009, 08:43 AM

River City Nissan in Kamloops has a Red Z/sport/touring - no nav though.

250-377-3800

Also try Contacting Eriksen Nissan in Edmonton 780-429-4611 and speak with the Inventory Manager, tell him what you want, be prepared to pay for trucking costs to get it in. Also ask to look at inventory in the Region as well as what is on pending order. Theyc an tell you.

Takes a little searching, took me a month and I am in Texas, with all kinds of dealers and I couldn't find anything, until the car I wanted popped into San Antonio and I live in Austin, went to local dealer, told them to work on a trade, gave them the price I was willing to pay, I paid $200 to have it trucked to Austin, and bought it from the lcoal dealer in Austin.

You are in the drivers seat here, make them work for it a bit.

bullitt5897 · 04-10-2009, 09:04 AM

took me over a month to get my pearl white fully loaded! It had to be shipped directly from japan! they luckily gave me a brand new car for a loaner in which I put over 2k miles on hehehe

semtex · 04-10-2009, 09:16 AM

I don't find it at all implausible that Nissan is halting/curtailing production on the 09 Coupe.

A simple Google search on "Nissan cutting production" yielded plenty of results, one of which is this article from back in February:

Nissan to slash jobs, production after forecasting $2.9bn annual loss | 1853 Chairman

Quote:

Nissan to slash jobs, production after forecasting $2.9bn annual loss
Hans Greimel

Automotive News | February 9, 2009 - 4:42 am EST

TOKYO — Reversing his profit forecast to a loss, Nissan Motor Co. CEO Carlos Ghosn entered crisis mode Monday.

Ghosn announced plans to slash 20,000 jobs, cut production by 20 percent, scale back new model launches and delay new factories. Nissan could also seek government bailout loans, Ghosn said.

The 265 billion yen ($2.91 billion) net loss Ghosn now predicts for the fiscal year ending March 31 would be his first loss since taking the charge of Nissan in 1999.

The outlook wipes out an earlier forecast for net income of $1.76 billion.

Ghosn has put on hold the Nissan GT 2012 mid-term business plan announced last year and its target of achieving 5 percent revenue growth through 2012. That plan was introduced after the earlier Value-Up initiative missed its unit sales goal.

The top priority now is preserving cash as Nissan and Japanese rivals struggle against collapsing global demand, a surging yen and shrinking access to credit. Of Japan’s six big automakers, only Honda Motor Co. and Suzuki Motor Corp. are still predicting profits.

"Nissan is operating in an environment in which we are hit with three challenges at one time, the credit crisis, economic recession and strengthening yen," Ghosn said here Feb. 9, while announcing fiscal third-quarter results. "Systematically, the worst scenario happened."

New recovery plan

Ghosn’s new recovery actions include:

• Slashing global workforce to 215,000 from 235,000 by end of 2009.

• Cutting labor costs by 20 percent to $7.69 billion.

• Limiting launches to 48 new products in next five years, instead of 60 as planned.

• Slowing the ramp-up of Nissan’s new factory in Chennai, India.

• Suspending Nissan’s involvement in a new Renault factory in Tangiers, Morocco.

• Reducing board member pay by 10 percent, managerial pay by 5 percent.

Nissan will also approach governments worldwide about possible credit lines, Ghosn said. He applauded industry support measures already implemented in Europe and being considered in Japan and the United States. "We need access to financing, that’s all we’re asking," he said.

"Cash is king," Ghosn said. "You need to generate cash and be extremely rigorous with cash."

The company may seek up to $549.5 million in low interest loans from the Japan’s government-backed Development Bank of Japan, the Nikkei newspaper reported.

It may also try tapping the $25 million the U.S. government has earmarked to help automakers and suppliers retool factories to make more fuel-efficient vehicles.

Grim outlook

For the full-year, Nissan expects an operating loss of $1.98 billion. That’s against an earlier outlook for operating profit of $2.97 billion.

The company will rein in capital expenditure by 21 percent in the current fiscal year and then cut again by 14 percent next year. The cuts will help Nissan save cash, Ghosn said.

That will bring Nissan’s spending on capital investment to $3.63 billion in the next fiscal year, from $5.37 billion in 2007.

Ghosn warned that global volume will shrink as low as 50 million units in 2009, from an estimated 62 million last year. To match it, Nissan is aiming to cut production by 787,000 units by the end of March - a 20 percent decrease from its planned volume.

The 20,000 job cuts account for roughly 8.5 percent of the company’s workforce.

They include some 2,000 temporary jobs that have already been cut in Japan and another 1,200 early retirement buyouts from the United States. Nissan has also already announced 1,680 cuts in Spain. Nissan did not give details about where the additional cuts will hit.

Keep in mind that this article is from February. I'm sure their cutback plans have 'evolved' since then and continue to fluidly evolve from day to day, which is why Stadium Nissan may have been caught off guard. The bottom line is that they've gone into a fiscally 'defensive' mode, which means that they want to keep excess inventory to a minimum, hence the reduction in cars produced. Now, I know that as a special order, this shouldn't be an issue as the car is pretty much sold before it's even made. But if they're cutting back production capability in general and across the board, there's bound to be a spill-over effect even on their ability to fill special orders.

355890 · 04-10-2009, 09:59 AM

Keep searching...

scorpion90 · 04-10-2009, 10:24 AM

Dealer in Akron, Ohio placed my order for a blue 7AT base with sport package at beginning of March and is supposed to be here in a week or so. I haven't been told that there is any problem in placing and getting the car.

ChrisSlicks · 04-10-2009, 11:11 AM

I wouldn't be surprised that they are desperately trying to get some roadsters here for summer as that is pretty much the only time they sell.

They probably figure they have enough coupe inventory sitting on the wharf and in the holding yards in Japan to cover them for a month or two. The VQ engine plant was cut back to 1 shift and they probably cut shifts on the main production line as well.

JohnnyD · 04-10-2009, 12:37 PM

Quote:

If anyone has any input regarding how I can locate and purchase the car I want please feel free to share your thoughts. I may or may not look into locating / purchasing one in the US and bringing it up to Canada. However, I am not sure if the situation in the US would be any different.

What are the disadvantages of buying in the US? ..besides traveling to pick up? I had a tough time finding a fully loaded AT in Chicane Yellow, but found one in my state, 700 mi away - we''re flying out and driving it back next week.

A quick check of Seattle area dealer inventory shows that:
PUYALLUP NISSAN
101 VALLEY AVE NW
PUYALLUP
WA 98371
Tel. (253) 848-4507

has your car, grey leather interior. There may be other dealers in the Seattle area also.

Good luck

semtex · 04-10-2009, 01:01 PM

Check out Importing a U.S. vehicle | Importer un véhicule des É.U.

Ace · 04-10-2009, 01:33 PM

Thank you everyone for all the input. I won't give up yet. Calgary has another large dealership Brasso I will also try on Saturday. I really want this car and won't give up.

I posted about this in the Canada forum and received some interesting feedback from another member in Calgary. He said he had spoke with a service tech at Stadium who was very frank and said that Stadium was very late to reserve their allocation and it sounded like they missed out.

However, I will find out if that is the case soon enough after speaking with a few other dealers in my area.

Mightybobo you stated, "I cant help but keep reading that you're shifting the blame to NISSAN. Wrong target, friend - the title of this post should be as follows:

"Stadium Nissan in Canada: A Major Let Down!"

This is the dealership dropping the ball, NOT Nissan. Im sure there is a 370 SOMEWHERE they could trade for, they're just too lazy to look."

Interesting point made and taken. You may or may not be correct about Stadium Nissan / Canada dropping the ball. I am not sure, but will soon find out if their story is true once a few other local dealers get back to me.

However, weather it is Nissan Canada, Nissan USA or an individual Nissan dealer they all represent one company brand "Nissan". Each Nissan dealership represents and sells Nissan products and I am sure is accountable for upholding the name and reputation. It doesn't matter weather you are a dealer in Canada, USA, Japan etc... if you can sell the product you still represent the Nissan brand, name and reputation. (Un)Fortunately, every dealership represents the larger company Nissan. So good or bad they are hanging Nissan's name out their on their sign once they become a dealer. If Nissan allows poor quality dealers who can't get their **** together to sell their product I hold Nissan accountable.

Anyway, I am not even sure if this is a story Stadium Nissan's feeding me or if it is the truth. I will try to reserve my judgement on the quality of the dealership until I find out for sure. As semtex pointed out there maybe some reality behind the story Stadium told me. Although I feel you might be correct when you say, "Im sure there is a 370 SOMEWHERE they could trade for, they're just too lazy to look."

Thanks for all the great input people. This website is awesome!

04-10-2009, 01:28 AM	#1 (permalink)
Ace Base Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Calgary Posts: 55 Drives: Red 09 370Z CS M6 Rep Power: 16	Nissan: A Major Let Down! ~2 weeks ago I placed an order for a new 370z in Canada. The salesman discussed what I was looking to order. We confirmed everything, and then began pricing negotiations. I negotiated a price with the salesman and the sales manager, signed the sales order, then gave them my $1000.00 deposit. The deal was all cash no financing. They told me they were placing a factory order the next day and my car would be included with that order. I was told I could expect the car at the latest sometime in late June early July. My time frame for receipt of the car is no later than the end of September or early October as the snow begins shortly after. I was assured they would be able to get me the car and the options I requested were not unusual or unattainable. The salesman told me he would keep me updated. The sales manager shook my hand and congratulated me on the purchase as did the salesman. So ~2 weeks later, which brings me to this afternoon, I get a phone call from Stadium Nissan (Canada). I am told they will not be able to get me the car I ordered. The gentleman that called me was neither the salesman nor the sales manager I dealt with. The gentleman was in charge of placing orders with the factory. He said he also looked after searching to see if vehicles requested are available at other dealerships. I was blown away and completely caught off guard. I can not express how upset and disappointed I am at Nissan. I had originally ordered a 2009 red 370z 6M Touring Coupe with Sport and Navigation. The explanation I was give goes something like this: apparently Nissan has halted production on all 2009 370z coupe models. Nissan has decided to stop production on the 370z coupe models to focus on the new 2010 370z roadster/convertible. The gentleman from Nissan told me he did not understand why Nissan was having such a short run on the 2009 370z coupes to focus on the 2010 roadster/convertible. He also said he had to call at least two other people in Calgary and let them know Nissan would be unable to place their orders. He told me there are no other red 370z M6 Touring Coupe with Sport and Navigation cars in Canada or on order to be shipped to Canada. I was then told this meant I would need to look at getting a 2010 and Nissan did not know the pricing or availability for that model. I was told it was not possible to get the car, or possible colour combination alternatives, at all. I won't compromise the sport or navigation package. Imagine my frustration and disappointment with Nissan. After this experience I am not even sure if I want to deal with Nissan any longer. It amazes me in the current economic environment Nissan would be willing to lose one sale. If it is not possible to get, or order a 2009 370z, as requested by myself, Nissan should stop offering them or advertising them for purchase! I was told by Stadium Nissan they could mail my deposit back to me. I told them I would swing by after work and pick it up. The gentleman said the check would be left at the front desk. When I got to Stadium Nissan their was no check ready for me nor one to be found. I told the salesman I am giving them until Saturday to return my deposit. The salesman said it would be ready Saturday for me. I called an alternative dealership, Fish Creek Nissan (Canada), tonight and spoke to a salesman about what happened at Stadium Nissan. I then asked him to see if they were able to find me the car I am after, as well as a second colour alternative choice. The salesman at Fish Creek will be speaking to his management team and finding out if Stadium Nissan's story is correct. I haven't completely given up my search. However, if Fish Creek Nissan comes back with the same story I will likely have no other alternative, but to stop chasing the car I want to buy. What a bunch of crap! Nissan, get your **** together! If anyone has any input regarding how I can locate and purchase the car I want please feel free to share your thoughts. I may or may not look into locating / purchasing one in the US and bringing it up to Canada. However, I am not sure if the situation in the US would be any different. Last edited by Ace; 04-10-2009 at 01:32 AM.

04-10-2009, 01:39 AM	#3 (permalink)
Crash A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,853 Drives: 02 Corvette Z06 Rep Power: 589	That'd be an interesting lie, though. Cash up front fully loaded?? Why would they suddenly lie to NOT sell a car? Usually the lies are to UP sell a car. I certainly hope that the story they told you is untrue. That'd be a VERY long wait for the 2010 model. And what could they possibly be changing/retooling that'd make so much difference as to totally stop production of the '09? __________________ 2002 Corvette Z06 - Totaled 2003 Corvette Z06 50th Anniversary

04-10-2009, 08:05 AM	#5 (permalink)
SiXK Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Orlando Posts: 352 Drives: 09 370Z / 91 300ZXTT Rep Power: 185	I would keep looking. there are several dealerships with new 370Zs on ebay. and of course, if you read the 350 board all the dealerships are stuck with 370s they can't sell. something doesn't sound right about that story. why would Nissan, who builds thousands of cars a year, need to halt production on one to work on another model year of the same car? unless there was a major problem with the 09's I just can't see it. GOOD LUCK!! It will be worth the trouble and wait! __________________ Magnetic Black 2009 370Z / Pearl Yellow 1991 300ZXTT

04-10-2009, 08:35 AM	#6 (permalink)
MightyBobo A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 8,465 Drives: No cars; only bikes Rep Power: 52	I cant help but keep reading that you're shifting the blame to NISSAN. Wrong target, friend - the title of this post should be as follows: "Stadium Nissan in Canada: A Major Let Down!" This is the dealership dropping the ball, NOT Nissan. Im sure there is a 370 SOMEWHERE they could trade for, they're just too lazy to look. __________________ I don't own a car anymore. Last edited by MightyBobo; 04-10-2009 at 08:40 AM.

04-10-2009, 09:59 AM	#10 (permalink)
355890 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 416 Drives: GP Z Base+Sport (6m) Rep Power: 541	Keep searching... __________________ *"Burnley Football Club supporter" ENGLAND...ENGLAND...ENGLAND*

04-10-2009, 01:33 AM	#2 (permalink)
Pushing_Tin A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Eugene, OR Posts: 2,875 Drives: E63 AMG Rep Power: 228	It's a fact that many people that work at dealerships are either liars or morons, many times both. I would check around and see if what they are saying is true, as I have not seen that mentioned anywhere else.

04-10-2009, 01:40 AM	#4 (permalink)
Ace Base Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Calgary Posts: 55 Drives: Red 09 370Z CS M6 Rep Power: 16	Thanks for the input. I am going to call around to a few other dealers in my city and in other cities close by. I was told by Stadium Nissan that I can check with other dealers and they will take my deposit and promise me the car. However, in two weeks, after they talk to Nissan headquarters the order will be turned down. I will be interested to see if this is the case. Fish Creek Nissan told me they would check with headquarters and confirm if this is true.

04-10-2009, 08:43 AM	#7 (permalink)
355890 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 416 Drives: GP Z Base+Sport (6m) Rep Power: 541	River City Nissan in Kamloops has a Red Z/sport/touring - no nav though. 250-377-3800 Also try Contacting Eriksen Nissan in Edmonton 780-429-4611 and speak with the Inventory Manager, tell him what you want, be prepared to pay for trucking costs to get it in. Also ask to look at inventory in the Region as well as what is on pending order. Theyc an tell you. Takes a little searching, took me a month and I am in Texas, with all kinds of dealers and I couldn't find anything, until the car I wanted popped into San Antonio and I live in Austin, went to local dealer, told them to work on a trade, gave them the price I was willing to pay, I paid $200 to have it trucked to Austin, and bought it from the lcoal dealer in Austin. You are in the drivers seat here, make them work for it a bit.

04-10-2009, 09:04 AM	#8 (permalink)
bullitt5897 Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: North GA Posts: 6,831 Drives: Twin Turbo Z34 Rep Power: 3682	took me over a month to get my pearl white fully loaded! It had to be shipped directly from japan! they luckily gave me a brand new car for a loaner in which I put over 2k miles on hehehe

04-10-2009, 10:24 AM	#11 (permalink)
scorpion90 Base Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Akron, Ohio Age: 76 Posts: 109 Drives: 370Z Base 7AT+Sports Rep Power: 283	Almost Here ! Dealer in Akron, Ohio placed my order for a blue 7AT base with sport package at beginning of March and is supposed to be here in a week or so. I haven't been told that there is any problem in placing and getting the car.

04-10-2009, 11:11 AM	#12 (permalink)
ChrisSlicks A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: North East Posts: 6,203 Drives: 09 370Z Sport M6 Rep Power: 653	I wouldn't be surprised that they are desperately trying to get some roadsters here for summer as that is pretty much the only time they sell. They probably figure they have enough coupe inventory sitting on the wharf and in the holding yards in Japan to cover them for a month or two. The VQ engine plant was cut back to 1 shift and they probably cut shifts on the main production line as well.

04-10-2009, 01:01 PM	#14 (permalink)
semtex A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Behind enemy lines Age: 54 Posts: 5,995 Drives: People to drink Rep Power: 32	Check out Importing a U.S. vehicle \| Importer un véhicule des É.U. __________________ "There are no small accidents on this circuit." -- Ayrton Senna 316.8whp & 248 ft/lbs (Dyno Dynamics) \| 319whp & 256 ft/lbs (DynoJet) (04/23/10) Stillen G3 CAI, CBE, Pulley / F.I. LTH / GTSpec Ladder Brace / Setrab Oil Cooler / UpRev-tuned by Forged Perf.

04-10-2009, 01:33 PM	#15 (permalink)
Ace Base Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Calgary Posts: 55 Drives: Red 09 370Z CS M6 Rep Power: 16	Thank you everyone for all the input. I won't give up yet. Calgary has another large dealership Brasso I will also try on Saturday. I really want this car and won't give up. I posted about this in the Canada forum and received some interesting feedback from another member in Calgary. He said he had spoke with a service tech at Stadium who was very frank and said that Stadium was very late to reserve their allocation and it sounded like they missed out. However, I will find out if that is the case soon enough after speaking with a few other dealers in my area. Mightybobo you stated, "I cant help but keep reading that you're shifting the blame to NISSAN. Wrong target, friend - the title of this post should be as follows: "Stadium Nissan in Canada: A Major Let Down!" This is the dealership dropping the ball, NOT Nissan. Im sure there is a 370 SOMEWHERE they could trade for, they're just too lazy to look." Interesting point made and taken. You may or may not be correct about Stadium Nissan / Canada dropping the ball. I am not sure, but will soon find out if their story is true once a few other local dealers get back to me. However, weather it is Nissan Canada, Nissan USA or an individual Nissan dealer they all represent one company brand "Nissan". Each Nissan dealership represents and sells Nissan products and I am sure is accountable for upholding the name and reputation. It doesn't matter weather you are a dealer in Canada, USA, Japan etc... if you can sell the product you still represent the Nissan brand, name and reputation. (Un)Fortunately, every dealership represents the larger company Nissan. So good or bad they are hanging Nissan's name out their on their sign once they become a dealer. If Nissan allows poor quality dealers who can't get their **** together to sell their product I hold Nissan accountable. Anyway, I am not even sure if this is a story Stadium Nissan's feeding me or if it is the truth. I will try to reserve my judgement on the quality of the dealership until I find out for sure. As semtex pointed out there maybe some reality behind the story Stadium told me. Although I feel you might be correct when you say, "Im sure there is a 370 SOMEWHERE they could trade for, they're just too lazy to look." Thanks for all the great input people. This website is awesome!

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