How detrimental is it to...

Red__Zed · 01-10-2011, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

I am disagreeing with the way you say "running the engine with 5-weight oil".

That is deceptive in that the oil is very thick when cold. cSt of most "X"-30 weight oils is around 60 when cold. When you heat them up, the cSt drops to around 9-11.

The way you presented it makes it sound like oil is thinner when its cold.

I apologize if my comment caused confusion. I meant it behaves as a cold 5W oil, giving it a (slightly) higher viscosity. I guess I should have fleshed that comment out more.

Not sure where you get the 60cSt number. It's usually below 20, at least for a 5W oil.

Viscosity Charts

ChrisSlicks · 01-11-2011, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

I apologize if my comment caused confusion. I meant it behaves as a cold 5W oil, giving it a (slightly) higher viscosity. I guess I should have fleshed that comment out more.

Not sure where you get the 60cSt number. It's usually below 20, at least for a 5W oil.

Viscosity Charts

Because it isn't an SAE-5 oil, it is an oil blend. A 5W30 isn't going to perform the same as a SAE-5 or an SAE-30, most of the time it is somewhere in between. It's properties are such that it can pass the minimum test for SAE-30, however there actually isn't any standardized test for Winter weight and most oils certainly wouldn't pass the test of SAE-5.

The viscosity numbers quoted (60 cSt @ 100F) is an average from actual manufacturer test data. On a cold start on a cold day it will be slightly higher, probably around 80-90.

Mt Tam I am · 01-11-2011, 10:06 AM

I HAVE NO CLUE AS TO WHAT I AM DOING. With that said, I still give the car a 30 second warm up and then take it easy for the first mile, check where the temp is, and determine wether or not to raise the rev's.

RCZ · 01-11-2011, 11:12 AM

On cold starts I tend to let the idle come down to normal or at least sub 1krpm before going anywhere and then keep it under 4k rpm until temperature gets to around 180.

I've had the issue a few times where I really want to play with someone when the car's cold and I haven't done it...I feel your pain.

christian370z · 01-11-2011, 11:21 AM

^Same here. I try to be as gentle as possible when it is still completely cold but as it warms up, I generally increase the rpms and or throttle that I would allow and would never give it WOT until the temps hit 170 at least.

Red__Zed · 01-12-2011, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisSlicks

Because it isn't an SAE-5 oil, it is an oil blend. A 5W30 isn't going to perform the same as a SAE-5 or an SAE-30, most of the time it is somewhere in between. It's properties are such that it can pass the minimum test for SAE-30, however there actually isn't any standardized test for Winter weight and most oils certainly wouldn't pass the test of SAE-5.

The viscosity numbers quoted (60 cSt @ 100F) is an average from actual manufacturer test data. On a cold start on a cold day it will be slightly higher, probably around 80-90.

Maybe I'm confused. I was under the impression that an SAE 5W-30 met the 5W low temp test, as well as the 30 weight 100C test, and behaved as in the following chart:

I know there's a lot of misinformation out there though, and I probably got some of it-- I won't pretend to know everything about oil. I am genuinely curious about how they rate the winter oils, if there is no standardized test. I was under the impression that the timed orifice method was used for the 100C test, and then it had to meet a standard at 40C, based on the cranking/pumping characteristics.

ChrisSlicks · 01-12-2011, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

Maybe I'm confused. I was under the impression that an SAE 5W-30 met the 5W low temp test, as well as the 30 weight 100C test, and behaved as in the following chart:

I know there's a lot of misinformation out there though, and I probably got some of it-- I won't pretend to know everything about oil. I am genuinely curious about how they rate the winter oils, if there is no standardized test. I was under the impression that the timed orifice method was used for the 100C test, and then it had to meet a standard at 40C, based on the cranking/pumping characteristics.

In a perfect world they would want the oil to have the ideal properties of both, both the reality is that it is currently impossible. Trade offs have to be made at either end. Given that the oil spends most of its live at operating temperature they make a few more trade offs in the lower range.

Red__Zed · 01-12-2011, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisSlicks

In a perfect world they would want the oil to have the ideal properties of both, both the reality is that it is currently impossible. Trade offs have to be made at either end. Given that the oil spends most of its live at operating temperature they make a few more trade offs in the lower range.

I understand that, but I thought it had to meet the cranking and pumping specs of the lighter weight oil at 40C?

didymus · 01-12-2011, 10:14 PM

Why hasn't this turned into a lambo vs z thread?!

ChrisSlicks · 01-13-2011, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

I understand that, but I thought it had to meet the cranking and pumping specs of the lighter weight oil at 40C?

They do. But it doesn't have to pass the full SAE test regiment that they do at operating temperature. The cranking and pumping tests aren't very tough, basically just there to assure that your oil won't turn to molasses at lower temperatures. It's the other standard tests such as the API (currently SN standard) that are more important and test the wear resistance and longevity of the oil.

wolf41779 · 01-23-2011, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by didymus

Why hasn't this turned into a lambo vs z thread?!

Haha, I agree.

ImportConvert · 01-24-2011, 11:02 AM

SAE weight is about as accurate as stirring the oil with your finger and comparing it to honey, syrup, or pudding and then lumping it under that category.

Look at cSt at a given temperature. It is much more relevant to a combustion engine, where SAE weight is much more relevant to pouring a liquid through a small hole out of a bottle. Completely worthless spec. imo.

Push370zzz · 01-24-2011, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LMBmikeZ

lol ya for some of those cars the cost to maintain them for a year would buy our car!

I don't know about lambo's but I know I was reading bugatti veyron owners (I know it's $1.7-2.7 million car) but they are paying around $250,000 - $300,000 a year for yearly maintenance!!

that would buy some pretty nice houses around my area (the $250k to $300K).

I really doubt that....

ImportConvert · 01-24-2011, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smashwebs

I really doubt that....

The tires alone on a Veyron cost more than your Z KBB's for if you still had it, depending on trim level.

Pelican170 · 01-24-2011, 02:44 PM

I have always been told to let your car warm up a little at first. With that said, waiting till the oil temp guage says 180 is pretty warm for a first rip. My car takes like 20 minutes to get to that temp it seems, and this is in the summer. I let her loose at 140-160 haha. Who knows how accurate those Oil Temp guages are anyways...

01-11-2011, 10:06 AM	#33 (permalink)
Mt Tam I am A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: California Posts: 10,709 Drives: 370Z T/S/N 6MT & XKE Rep Power: 3843	I HAVE NO CLUE AS TO WHAT I AM DOING. With that said, I still give the car a 30 second warm up and then take it easy for the first mile, check where the temp is, and determine wether or not to raise the rev's. __________________ "Does the carpet match the drapes? NO!!! I don't date bald women." Nissan Motorsports 34R Oil Cooler. Stillen CBE. Hotchkis Sport Sway Bars. KW Variant 3 Coilover System. Stillen Gen3 CAI. Michelin Pilot Super Sport. Stillen Brake Ducts. Carbotech™ XP10/XP8 Pads. Z1 Front Rotors. Z1 Stainless Brake Lines. Two degrees of camber

01-11-2011, 11:21 AM	#35 (permalink)
christian370z A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Newport Beach Posts: 3,900 Drives: 2010 370Z/Saab 900se Rep Power: 432	^Same here. I try to be as gentle as possible when it is still completely cold but as it warms up, I generally increase the rpms and or throttle that I would allow and would never give it WOT until the temps hit 170 at least. __________________ -320whp / 259wftlbs- SP Rays -- RE-11s -- SpecialtyZ Tune -- Swift Springs -- Stillen 25R Oil Cooler -- Stillen G3 Intakes -- Berk HFCs -- F.I. 12" CBE -- Stillen Sway Bars -- Es14 Spring -- INGS+1 lip -- CF Spoiler -- GTR Start Button -- VLED Parking Lights -- PWJDM V2 shift knob

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Added weight detrimental?	ddvette9	Nissan 370Z General Discussions	14	02-28-2010 12:37 PM

01-11-2011, 11:12 AM	#34 (permalink)
RCZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Miami Posts: 6,403 Drives: '09 370Z Rep Power: 1119	On cold starts I tend to let the idle come down to normal or at least sub 1krpm before going anywhere and then keep it under 4k rpm until temperature gets to around 180. I've had the issue a few times where I really want to play with someone when the car's cold and I haven't done it...I feel your pain.

01-12-2011, 10:14 PM	#39 (permalink)
didymus Track Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Providence / Boston Posts: 564 Drives: 280 / 370Z Rep Power: 306	Why hasn't this turned into a lambo vs z thread?!

01-24-2011, 11:02 AM	#42 (permalink)
ImportConvert A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: SWMO Posts: 4,454 Drives: 2019 CX5 GT Reserve Rep Power: 7627	SAE weight is about as accurate as stirring the oil with your finger and comparing it to honey, syrup, or pudding and then lumping it under that category. Look at cSt at a given temperature. It is much more relevant to a combustion engine, where SAE weight is much more relevant to pouring a liquid through a small hole out of a bottle. Completely worthless spec. imo.

01-24-2011, 02:44 PM	#45 (permalink)
Pelican170 Track Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Sandy Hook, CT Posts: 972 Drives: Nissan 370z Nismo Rep Power: 16	I have always been told to let your car warm up a little at first. With that said, waiting till the oil temp guage says 180 is pretty warm for a first rip. My car takes like 20 minutes to get to that temp it seems, and this is in the summer. I let her loose at 140-160 haha. Who knows how accurate those Oil Temp guages are anyways...