How detrimental is it to...

daisuke149 · 01-10-2011, 12:39 AM

three things i keep an eye on.

the engine revs higher for a bit, i wait till it drops below 1k, doesnt normally take long.
I move the shifter around, when really cold its really stiff, so i let the heat from the engine warm that up a bit.
the coolant temp to hit the third dot.

Generally in a combination of these is when i begin driving, but I still dont gun it. (heck i never really gun it on the streets ever, I shift at 3k rpm's and take my sweet time gettin there)

not sure if its correct, but its always made me feel better.

Nitrouz · 01-10-2011, 01:25 AM

Was this at Westgate? That may have been me...

ChrisSlicks · 01-10-2011, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TypeOne

Oil gets thicker as it warms up. When your car sits and cools down, the oil thins out. The oil is thin so that it lubricates the engine better when everything is cold.

Sorry that's not really true. Oil thins as it gets hotter and thickens as it cools.

The viscosity of a 5W30 at 100F is around 60 cSt, and at 210F is around 10 cSt (higher number is thicker).

I think you were mislead by the numbers. The number followed by the W means that it is a Winter weight, which means it has the viscosity of that weight oil if it were at operating temperature (210F), but doesn't mean that it acts like a SAE 5 weight oil would at operating temperature while cold.

Now with the modern multi-weight oils there are some properties that are built in the help reduce the extremes in viscosity, but not so much that it can ever be level in viscosity or operate backwards.

IDZRVIT · 01-10-2011, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TypeOne

Few things about this you should tell your "knowledgeable friend that tracks his car."

Oil gets thicker as it warms up. When your car sits and cools down, the oil thins out. The oil is thin so that it lubricates the engine better when everything is cold.

When your car is cold and has been sitting, all of the oil which is normally pumped through it, has settled back down into the oil pan. Once the engine starts to turn, the oil pump is primed, which in turn pumps engine oil throughout the engine...lubricating everything.

If you crank your car up and drive off when the car isn't warm, you are increasing the chance of wear on the engine. Most of the wear from an engine comes during cold starts when oil pressure is at its lowest.

As you rev the engine up, the oil pressure increases.

You need to let your engine properly warm up, as well as the oil. Not just for the engine, but for the gear box and all of the other parts that require proper lubrication.

Letting your car idle is not bad. It is the best way to let your car warm up properly. However because of modern multi-viscosity oils, it's not BAD to DRIVE the car, just don't redline it when the oil is cold.

**Edit**

Just to be clear, running your engine hard before the oil has reached the proper temps will increase wear on the rotating internal parts as the oil is NOT thick enough to properly lubricate it. Engine coolant temps are a little different and they are just as important. You want the engine to be warm, but you don't want it to be too hot. As metal gets hot, it expands... when it is cold, it condenses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TypeOne

Just letting you known that you should inform your friend. I am simply trying to stop the spread of misinformation about things like this.

No harm no foul, just want you to understand how it works.

By doing what you said, you could actually do more harm than good.

Sorry if it came out the wrong way.

You are a prime example of someone who doesn't have a clue about oil and lubrication and then spreads the misinformation. Wow!

Oil is thick when cold and thinner when hot. There is spalsh lubrication, boundary lubrication and hydrodynamic lubrication interacting inside an engine to provide its lubrication needs. Most wear occurs while the engine is cranking over during a cold start. I'll stop there because I'm not going to give a lesson on how an internal combustion engine is lubricated. Suggest you do some research before you spread misinformation.

ImportConvert · 01-10-2011, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

The need to warm the engine up stems primarily from the desire to get the motor oil up to temp. If you wail on your car while it's cold, you are essentially running 5 weight oil in the engine...

No, you're running something thick as syrup and it doesn't lubricate as well, or pump NEARLY as well. In other words, you have more pressure at the pump and less up top and over the bearings.

No, you won't blow your car up the first time, but it's not a good habit at all. That is why many high-end cars have tach's that adapt to the running temp like the M series, etc.

ImportConvert · 01-10-2011, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisSlicks

Sorry that's not really true. Oil thins as it gets hotter and thickens as it cools.

The viscosity of a 5W30 at 100F is around 60 cSt, and at 210F is around 10 cSt (higher number is thicker).

I think you were mislead by the numbers. The number followed by the W means that it is a Winter weight, which means it has the viscosity of that weight oil if it were at operating temperature (210F), but doesn't mean that it acts like a SAE 5 weight oil would at operating temperature while cold.

Now with the modern multi-weight oils there are some properties that are built in the help reduce the extremes in viscosity, but not so much that it can ever be level in viscosity or operate backwards.

+1

cSt is the only number worth reading regarding viscosity imo.

PapoZalsa · 01-10-2011, 09:15 AM

Well one of the main reason I warm the car is to heat the car inside during the Winter.

For the old lady since the SUV is outside the same plus the defroster.

During the other months if is not cold, 30 secs and I'm out the garage.

Jeffblue · 01-10-2011, 10:05 AM

i think if you need to get out of the way of a runaway truck, you shouldn't care what your oil temperature is but you should take it easy and wait to have your 'fun' until the oil is warmed up.

i would also like to note that the car also pollutes the most when very cold because catalytic converters are doing the very least to reduce emissions when they are not warmed up. so all those eco nuts that don't know d1ck about cars who get in their cars and just drive away right away are polluting more than they think.

anyway, thats a side note. I also just like to think of it like this. would you like to get woken up, told to get out of bed and sprint 1/4 mile? i dont think so. obviously a car is a machine, but, personifying things sometimes helps.

TreeSemdyZee · 01-10-2011, 12:05 PM

Um. If you didn't go over 3500, you're not really running it hard.

kenchan · 01-10-2011, 12:35 PM

No issue, as long as it's not mine.

Greed · 01-10-2011, 03:05 PM

I don't think My Z will go fast when the engine is cold. Throttle response is very sluggish in cold weather until oil temps near 180. Granted, my car is parked in my icy cold garage for up to 5 days b/t drives.

Still, even after the oil temps are at normal levels, I typically won't get 100% throttle response until after I've shut off the engine and started it up again -- say, after a quick stop at the grocery store. I have noticed this more often in winter than summer.

Not knowing much about cars, I've attributed this behavior to the ECU perhaps trying protecting the engine. Am I right?

I also drive a 99 Mercury Sable. That car drives the same (slowly) regardless of the conditions.

Aidan · 01-10-2011, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TypeOne

Oil gets thicker as it warms up. When your car sits and cools down, the oil thins out. The oil is thin so that it lubricates the engine better when everything is cold.

This is the worst explanation I've ever heard. Oil get thicker as it warms up?

And by the way. Hi everyone. Long time reader. First time poster. Please continue.

sonic370 · 01-10-2011, 08:36 PM

when sitting beside a lambo at a red light it is never a good idea to gun your
car

Red__Zed · 01-10-2011, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

No, you're running something thick as syrup and it doesn't lubricate as well, or pump NEARLY as well. In other words, you have more pressure at the pump and less up top and over the bearings.

No, you won't blow your car up the first time, but it's not a good habit at all. That is why many high-end cars have tach's that adapt to the running temp like the M series, etc.

What exactly are you disagreeing with in my post?

ImportConvert · 01-10-2011, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

What exactly are you disagreeing with in my post?

I am disagreeing with the way you say "running the engine with 5-weight oil".

That is deceptive in that the oil is very thick when cold. cSt of most "X"-30 weight oils is around 60 when cold. When you heat them up, the cSt drops to around 9-11.

The way you presented it makes it sound like oil is thinner when its cold.

01-10-2011, 01:25 AM	#17 (permalink)
Nitrouz Track Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 934 Drives: 40th Z, GTR, 420z-tt Rep Power: 15	Was this at Westgate? That may have been me... __________________ 2010 370Z 40th Anniversary - Anastasia VENACI / AERO JACKET / HKS USA / MXP / NISMO / FALKEN / STILLEN / T1R / MR WORKS / CARBON SIGNAL / EVO-R / BLUE BATMOBILE

01-10-2011, 09:15 AM	#22 (permalink)
PapoZalsa A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Not in Sunny Florida Posts: 6,358 Drives: 16 Nismo w/Tech Pack Rep Power: 4500	Well one of the main reason I warm the car is to heat the car inside during the Winter. For the old lady since the SUV is outside the same plus the defroster. During the other months if is not cold, 30 secs and I'm out the garage. __________________ 2009 370Z MB Base w/Sport Package 6MT Modshack's Custom Air Intakes /3M Clear Bra/ Illuminated Kick Plates / F. I CBE w/12" resonators / EVO-R Front Lip / Rear Hatch Wing / Tein S-Tech Springs /Ilegal Tint in the Rep. of VA/4x20mm Z1 Spacers/ Vinyl Roof/Liquid Carbon Designs

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