Japanese and the Z - Sound
 

I'm gonna post up some of the more interesting things that I ran across during my trips to Nissan Japan and hope they are entertaining to some of you.
The Japanese are incredibly into touch, feel and actually the 5 senses in general to a much higher degree than anybody else I have ever ran into. They can all draw, are extremely observant and notice little things about people they are around and communicating with. Hard to explain but it's like Japan was colonized by a band of artists.
A good example is that when Admiral Perry visited them in the 1800s he left a cartridge firing rifle with them as gift. When he returned several years later they had made another just like it even though that was the only rifle they had ever seen. They gave him the copy. Tom Cruise alludes to this in The Last Samurai.
A peek into the future I think..............

While there to train on large Japanese built plastic injection molds I was in a class and the subject of sound came up and my group was informed of the following to show us how far they go to finesse something.

Notice the sound of your engine when you mash the throttle and you year that soothing sound of internal combustion power. Several things affect this sound but the most important is the intake which is number one and the exhaust which is secondary.
Designers are given a certain amount of real estate under the hood for their given parts so look at your intake. I am not familiar, yet, with the Z but most cars have a type of plenum that is blow molded plastic where air enters before the air filter container. This is the source of your intake sound and it is tuned like a musical instrument by a man that is blind. At that time Nissan had one man that went to different areas to do just this. This was his job even though he was an accomplished musician of some sort.
He was very high paid and famous in the company. He would listen in the car, direct changes, report back to the PPM (Principal Project Manager) and together they would acquire the proper sound. But the blind guy's hearing was the tool for the job.
After the intake was tuned the same guy would do the same for the exhaust and later would choose tire type and brand using the same logic. In Purchasing it used to kill us that he would choose a tire that cost $50 each when we could get the same quality of tire for $35 from another manufacturer. But this guy ruled. Yes, Nissan gets tires that cheap.

If this is of interest let me know and I'll lay out some more stuff later.

I just thought it was fascinating.

That is very intersting! :tup:

Suddenly the weird resonators on the intake and the counter weights on the exhaust make sense.

Shame that the musican's hard work hasn't translated into good reviews on the engine note -- Top Gear's Jeremy Clarkson saying he'd rather hear the sound of his own firing squad than the VQ37 approaching redline.

He is the most interesting blind man in the world and he drinks Saki!!! lol definitely interesting! :tup:

This might be for another thread, but how does Nissan (per your experience) handle contracts on things. So they want X tire for a car (370z), do they do a contract with a company to get a good deal and if so what happens if they alter a few things and want to change the tires?

The Dreamer
That's an easy one for me. When a car is in development each part is given a budget or cost target which add up to a total that will translate into an acceptable MSRP. You can't go over target without God's approval
Tires are same and every effort is made to use an existing tire so it is speced and then put out for bid and an award is given to a company.
When a prototype starts to roll the actual tires start to be tested and this can go in many directions including changing the tires and making them model unique which is expensive as hell.
It's all between the designer, the blind dude, marketing and the PPM with the blind dude having priority.
Kind of a left handed answer but it's not an exact process. Usually the tire maker will provide a "guest" engineer to work beside the Nissan designer to finalize things.

It should be noted that in the old days tire makers would practically give tires to us so that consumers would replace them with same which is really where their money is. But they figured out that that is not what consumers do and could not care less whether the OEM chooses their product or not. This equals higher prices.

Does that help?

Yep, I know the Japanese work a lot on hand shake basis and will pick item A or B because of what you described. Though I was curious how Nissan has adapted to the idea of contracts and budgets.

All has changed since the French (Renault) bought controlling interest of Nissan. The handshake is gone and replaced with what's called a Master Purchase Agreement. Very complex. Have no doubt, the French call the shots at Nissan these days.

ive also had the pre-french guy G20 and wat a mess that was. :shakes head:

To be accurate, he doesn't always drink saki....but when he does, he prefers dosSaki. Stay thirsty, my friends.

Little did you know, the 370Z also hails from the pre-french era. It was once called an "Altima"...

Then the French came along, blended a few lines...

...and the 370Z was born!

wtf is this saki stuff?

lol, Ghoswned. ugh.

i really can appreciate the work that goes into tuning the sound of the cars and all that. it's nice to see attention to details. still...if our VQ37VHR is 'tuned for sound', i think we've got serious problems. maybe the blind guy is going deaf. :ugh2:

and honestly, they should probably get that intern going on figuring out how to get some more low end torque out of this damn engine!

i think importconvent was rubbed the wrong way. :icon18:


... back to topic. :icon17:

http://i55.tinypic.com/furmth.png
Similar mirror design? Check.
Similar Fender bulges? Check.
Similar headlight shape? Check.
Totally uninspired offering of multiple shades of gray? Check.

A blind guy designing the engine/exhaust sound makes sense. His heightened hearing would lead to quieter exhausts....hence our nearly silent stock exhaust.

Now did this blind guy lay a hand on the car during testing? The V and H in NVH surely didn't get aprpeciated.

what the hell is that on the 370Z's hood? did someone shitstain it??

:bowrofl::roflpuke2::icon17:

:icon17: walmart shopper you are.



as for the Z's stock sound, it's too quiet. i was expecting a melodic note like on my G but was kind of dissappointed when i got the Z. (and quickly replaced with aftermarket). :D

so...does this mean that all of us who got aftermarket exhausts just snubbed some blind guy?

i feel kinda bad now.

Yours is JDM so you are good. :ugh2:

I'm curious if the exhaust tuning guy listens from inside the cabin. As many of us have concluded, the stock sound is less than inspiring.

Also, I'd love to know what internal criteria the blind dude is using for his evaluation. Trying to get a sound that would appeal to the masses, or finding something to his own subjective (but apparently well informed) opinion?

Another great thread, Sach...keep 'em coming :tup:

Funny you should mention that. In college I shopped at Wal-Mart and hated it and swore I would graduate to Target or something else. Now that I can afford not to have to go to stores like Wal-Mart, as luck would have it, I work nights and usually end up there at 0300 or so on my nights off and there isn't a soul around. Without the trash, Wal-Mart isn't so bad at all.

Not my fault.

The Z really isn't that bad in my opinion, considering that Nissan had to meet a bunch of regulatory standards, etc. regarding sound at WOT that can dumb-down the sound at part throttle so as not to exceed some stupid mandated threshold at WOT, and make you feel like the car is too quiet during 95% of your driving. There really is only so much you can do with a V6 engine. Architecture for sound vs. performance--I think you guys would rather have that sliding-scale more toward the performance end. Kindof like the 2V mustangs. I think they sound awesome, but their LS1 equipped nemesis was so much more fun to drive, even if it sounded like a machine-gun in a trashcan in comparison.

i remember seeing a review by some j-magazine or something online where the guy was saying how the 370z AT is great because it's so quiet and keeps the revs low vs MT. :icon14: i cant remember but i think he also pointed out the cabin was quiet keeping the exhaust noise down. perhaps this car was geared towards more of the quiet crowd?

i know the demographics in japan quickly changed from the real car guys to magazine-spec-racer-wanna-be-a-car-guy-but-dont-know-much-about-cars-but-i-have-money-my-parents-gave-me--i-couldn't-make-it-into-a-good-college-so-i-should-go-to-U.S.A.-and-learn-some-english-to-keep-my-dad-off-my-arse-and-make-mom-proud-telling-her-friends-and-neighbors-her-son-is-in-America after the bubble bursted in the early 90's. perhaps thats where japan suddently made the wrong turn for the 370z's...

this i agree. :tup: the store isn't actually bad, i just dont care for their demographics.

:bowrofl:

Ken, there's got to be an acronym for that!

f-king 留学生 :tup:

I was thinking the same thing in regards to how noisy the stock tires are. I just switched to some snow shoes and I was taken back by how much less road noise my car has now.

You guys are good!

The Z was never an Altima and was born way back as the Fairlady Z. Which you guys probably already know.
The Altima was born from the Stanza.

I have not heard the Z but it sounds like it is bad. Not sure if the blind dude is still around or if what he does is any good. My point was to illustrate the mind set of the Japanese. A blind guy is best for sound. I would be willing to bet that money now has the front seat

Wait till I tell you about the deaf dude!

KenChan, where do you get your name? In Japan it is an honorific term to use san at the end of a man or woman's name as it denotes respect as does the level of a bow. Chan however is used only by men and denotes a very close relationship such as best friends to us. If your name was Ken and I addressed you as Ken-chan people around us as well as you would see this as a term of affection and that you have given me permission to to use it.

And that's today's lesson!

^ whoa, whoa, whoa. careful with using -chan suffixes. '-chan' between a male and a female who are in a close relationship can be seen as cute. two guys using 'chan' with each other is seen as strange most of the time...i think.

wikipedia surprisingly captures it quite well.

in fact, these days, i don't hear a lot of suffixes between male friends, unless it's a nickname or something. they just call by name, or if necessary, add the '-san' as appropriate. in familiar cases, use '-kun'.

or maybe 'yan'. lol

Not true, or at least it was not a few years ago. In the office I would hear one man add chan to another man he was addressing and asked about the term. The guy that explained it to me was a little embarassed by it because he understood the stigma my western mind would attach to it. After this I noticed it more and got the same explanation at a bar with a friend over there. Perfectly OK to use.

Are you in Japan phelan?

no, but i lived in tokyo for a while.

never heard it used between guys. unless they were drunk off their *** lol. mind you, i was a grad student. maybe it's different. i dunno.


oh, and for the record, i never heard '-kun' either. i think it's kinda kiddy, honestly.

basically, i called people using -san, no matter what. being a foreigner, i just made sure i was proper and not insulting someone.

i suppose the rule is, if others refer to a person as -chan, and they're cool with it, then fine. but don't open up by calling someone '-chan' until you know they're comfortable with it. it could be weird lol

BACK ON TOPIC!

yah, noone in real life actually calls me kenchan other than my mom. :icon17: my girlfriends including my wife long time ago use to call me that while we were dating but these days they use -san.

it is common for j-folks call their co-workers with -chan or -yan especially after shortening either their first or last name. it's something about the j-culture they like to shorten names and add some kind of flare to it.

as far as the 370z's stock exhaust, it sounds better when it's leaking at the last flange. lol

As I mentioned I am Zless until Feb when my lease gets here but ya'll have me primed for a terrible sounding car. I'm so in love with the damn thing I don't think I will care. I go to east TN to rip around the twisties up there on sport bikes twice a year with freinds from 3 different states. This year I'm takin the Z and am going to tear their a** up!

Has the Dragon and Cherohala been discussed in this forum?


Tail of the Dragon at Deals Gap and Cherohala Skyway, Graham Co, NC

Man, I would love to live in Tokyo for a year. Shibuya......Shibuya......transfer for the Oedo Line, the Marunochi Line, the Keio Line.......

The car sounds fine stock, the engine itself can be a little harsh at very high RPM's but the intake the exhaust are alright, just can be improved by some aftermarket.

Make sure you get yourself an oil cooler or your fun will only last a minute!!

The car will be a company car that I will have for one year and can't do anything to it. What is the oil cooler deal?

OK, having been on forums with Kenchan for several years now and never understanding the significance of how he prefers to be addressed, I am both embarrassed that I have never gotten him a birthday present, and pissed off that he's never had me over for dinner.

;)

:icon18: