370z hard to drive?

AlphaSnacks · 06-19-2012, 01:14 AM

^^^Yeah, slamming the clutch down too fast in 1st and even slower speeds in 2nd, makes this awful noise of the clutch and flywheel disengaging.

Face · 06-19-2012, 01:49 AM

There's a parking garage I exit often that is on a slope and terminates into traffic so the transmission is under stress as you slowly spiral up the slope and then you're forced to abruptly engage the clutch and brake to avoid a collision and then you're greeted with that "clackity clackity clack" sound.

I hate it.

shika805 · 06-19-2012, 02:03 AM

^weird i've notice that to with my car?!? I dont know what the hell that is!

wow the small things that annoy us about our z's haha

blackcherry20 · 06-19-2012, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shika805

^, they always seem excited when i say a 6spd. never had someone in real life be like 'WTF DUDE why did you get that shitty transmission'

now that's funny!

JohnsZ · 06-19-2012, 11:56 AM

I've had my 370Z for just about a week now and have gotten the shifting down to a science especially going from 1st to 2nd. Very simply...make sure your RPM's are between 3K and 3.5K. Smooth as silk

Z34Driver · 06-19-2012, 12:05 PM

I did not / have not found this car difficult to drive, just different. I got right out of a 2000 Honda Civic Ex MT (Since 2001), into the Z (2012) and drove off the lot with no problem (no stalls). The Z has basically 3x the HP, which is one of the main reasons it feels different for me

This could have something to do with the method used when I was taught how to drive a manual transmission, and my dad never letting me forget that when girls are riding in the car, they don't want to feel you shifting gears...He parked in the middle of a hill in my neighborhood, told me when I could get up the hill, I could drive a manual trans, this was in a '98 4-Cylinder Ford Ranger...He's not a redneck haha.

kenchan · 06-19-2012, 12:18 PM

if you stall this car, you definitely suck at driving MT's... lol

blackcherry20 · 06-19-2012, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenchan

if you stall this car, you definitely suck at driving MT's... lol

lol-I sucked before I left the lot-I no longer suck at driving a MT-Zzzzzz

ecoplunge · 06-19-2012, 10:27 PM

I find that the combination of a hydraulic clutch, overly helpful helper spring, meager low end torque, a very short clutch engagement and a choppy 'digital' throttle make for a very difficult-to-drive-smooth car.

I'm surprised there's not more bitching on here about the hydraulic clutch. I've never driven one I like better than a cabled version. They just seem to remove all the feel. Not to mention the 'bounce' that hydraulic circuit can introduce. It's like a resonance wave in the hydraulic fluid - get the release wrong and it can induce crazy clutch chatter. I've never experienced clutch chatter on a healthy cabled clutch but find it to be pervasive on hydraulic clutches.

That being said almost all those issues become moot when driven aggressively. When I'm really getting on it I don't even for one second think about anything but how kick *** this car is - which is, of course, why I bought it!

blackcherry20 · 06-20-2012, 10:26 AM

Quote:

ECOPLUNGE I've never experienced clutch chatter on a healthy cabled clutch but find it to be pervasive on hydraulic clutches.

That being said almost all those issues become moot when driven aggressively. When I'm really getting on it I don't even for one second think about anything but how kick *** this car is - which is, of course, why I bought it!

B&W_Evader · 06-20-2012, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbodog

Please excuse the length of the following post.

Well, considering that there are now at LEAST 11 pages of posts on this topic, it is clear something is not as good as one might expect in a modern sports car. While I had adapted to the clutch quirks in this car, I am not one to settle for what the factory provided if I don't like it. So, I investigated and made some changes and am 100% happier. My investigation revealed 2 flaws:

1. (as others also have noted) the engagement point is too high off the floor, causing one to have to modulate at the engagement point with one's knee up in the air. Not optimum. Can it be driven this way? Sure. Would ANY race driver (not that I am) worth his/her salt NOT change it in order to improve overall performance? No.

2. The return spring on the pedal is not a simple affair. It is a linkage to a spring unit which is oriented 90 degrees away from what you might expect (for space considerations, I'm sure). The relationship between pedal motion and spring compression is not linear. It is a sinusoidal relationship. A sine function 'rate of change' (slope of curve; energy needed to move the pedal) passes through zero and 'infinity' (changing from positive to negative at each of these points) as the input (clutch pedal position) changes. This friggin linkage goes through the 'infinity' point in the relationship right about at the engagement point.

If anyone does the adjustment detailed in the other clutch thread, they can experience this first hand. With the clutch push-rod disconnected from the pedal, move the pedal through it's range of motion, starting at the pedal fully 'up' position. Push, resistance, push, resistance, push SNAP the pedal goes to the floor and stays there. You have to pull it back up (with the master cyl push-rod attached, the clutch spring, fed back thru the hydraulics, pushes the pedal back up). Pull, resistance, pull, resistance, pull SNAP the pedal snaps up to the fully 'up' position. The SNAP occurs where? Right at the stock engagement point. Maybe this was on purpose... the pedal 'helping' inexperienced drivers to get their foot off the clutch pedal once the thing is engaged.

The net result is a distinct change in pedal response, right where I least want it. What to do? Well - fortunately- when the push-rod linkage is adjusted, the relationship of pedal-position-to-engagement-point is changed, and the spring snap-over occurs well past the engagement point, as I am taking my foot off the pedal.

As discussed above, a good driver can compensate for a lot of faults in the car (Fernando Alonzo in a 2009-spec Renault F1 car comes to mind as a possible pinnacle of that!), but don't overlook the fact that many faults (such as the clutch action in our 370Z) CAN be fixed.

I agree most with Turbodog.

1st I did the clutch helper spring, didn't feel a perceptable change
2nd I adjusted the pedal engage point, night and day difference

What I still think is still wrong with it...
1) Springs in the clutch plate are too soft giving it a choppy engagement. In my opinion, that's the jerkyness you feel getting off the line sometimes.
2) Pressure plate is too soft. You should be a able to get more snap out of it. Hell, my leg doesn't even get tired in stop and go traffic.
3) I'd like a lighter flywheel too. You shouldn't see a big change in RPM during engagement anyway. It's just there to make getting off the line easier.

I'm not going to take the transmission out to fix this stuff untill it needs to come out for some other reason.

Davey · 06-21-2012, 01:31 PM

Yeah, the heavy flywheel is not what I'd like to see in a sports car.

I'm OK with harder to drive if there is a reason for it. It's almost like SRM was an excuse to use an even heavier flywheel and have a laggy throttle response. Trying to heel-and-toe the Z without SRM is pretty frustrating.

shadoquad · 06-21-2012, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davey

Trying to heel-and-toe the Z without SRM is pretty frustrating.

Is it just me, or is the pedal position awkward for heel-toe as well?

Davey · 06-21-2012, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadoquad

Is it just me, or is the pedal position awkward for heel-toe as well?

Been a while since I tried since I got frustrated with its unwillingness to rev, but I want to say they're too far apart and the brake is too high to have it work unless you're on the brakes REALLY hard.

Shamu · 06-21-2012, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadoquad

Is it just me, or is the pedal position awkward for heel-toe as well?

I dont have any issue at all? Pedals are in great position for me. Its very easy car to drive on the street and heal toe is quite easy. However I grew up heal toeing old Porsches so my perspective may be warped. I have to admit though Im cheating on my feet and having an affair with SRM.

06-19-2012, 10:27 PM	#174 (permalink)
ecoplunge Base Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Orlando Posts: 45 Drives: 370z TS M6 Rep Power: 13	Persnickety I find that the combination of a hydraulic clutch, overly helpful helper spring, meager low end torque, a very short clutch engagement and a choppy 'digital' throttle make for a very difficult-to-drive-smooth car. I'm surprised there's not more bitching on here about the hydraulic clutch. I've never driven one I like better than a cabled version. They just seem to remove all the feel. Not to mention the 'bounce' that hydraulic circuit can introduce. It's like a resonance wave in the hydraulic fluid - get the release wrong and it can induce crazy clutch chatter. I've never experienced clutch chatter on a healthy cabled clutch but find it to be pervasive on hydraulic clutches. That being said almost all those issues become moot when driven aggressively. When I'm really getting on it I don't even for one second think about anything but how kick *** this car is - which is, of course, why I bought it!

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06-19-2012, 01:14 AM	#166 (permalink)
AlphaSnacks A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Windermere, FL Posts: 1,618 Drives: '13 XKR-S, '10 370Z Rep Power: 18	^^^Yeah, slamming the clutch down too fast in 1st and even slower speeds in 2nd, makes this awful noise of the clutch and flywheel disengaging.

06-19-2012, 01:49 AM	#167 (permalink)
Face Base Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Bellevue, WA Posts: 109 Drives: 09 370Z PG M6 S/T Rep Power: 13	There's a parking garage I exit often that is on a slope and terminates into traffic so the transmission is under stress as you slowly spiral up the slope and then you're forced to abruptly engage the clutch and brake to avoid a collision and then you're greeted with that "clackity clackity clack" sound. I hate it.

06-19-2012, 02:03 AM	#168 (permalink)
shika805 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Santa Barbara, CA Posts: 491 Drives: 40th Z, 71' 240z Rep Power: 20	^weird i've notice that to with my car?!? I dont know what the hell that is! wow the small things that annoy us about our z's haha

06-19-2012, 11:56 AM	#170 (permalink)
JohnsZ Enthusiast Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Connecticut Posts: 374 Drives: '09 370Z Tour CY M6 Rep Power: 14	I've had my 370Z for just about a week now and have gotten the shifting down to a science especially going from 1st to 2nd. Very simply...make sure your RPM's are between 3K and 3.5K. Smooth as silk

06-19-2012, 12:05 PM	#171 (permalink)
Z34Driver Base Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Athens, GA Age: 40 Posts: 67 Drives: 09 Nissan 370Z PW M6 Rep Power: 13	I did not / have not found this car difficult to drive, just different. I got right out of a 2000 Honda Civic Ex MT (Since 2001), into the Z (2012) and drove off the lot with no problem (no stalls). The Z has basically 3x the HP, which is one of the main reasons it feels different for me This could have something to do with the method used when I was taught how to drive a manual transmission, and my dad never letting me forget that when girls are riding in the car, they don't want to feel you shifting gears...He parked in the middle of a hill in my neighborhood, told me when I could get up the hill, I could drive a manual trans, this was in a '98 4-Cylinder Ford Ranger...He's not a redneck haha.

06-19-2012, 12:18 PM	#172 (permalink)
kenchan A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: N/A Posts: 76,801 Drives: N/A Rep Power: 141521	if you stall this car, you definitely suck at driving MT's... lol

06-21-2012, 01:31 PM	#177 (permalink)
Davey A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Indiana Posts: 3,766 Drives: '15 NISMO 6MT Rep Power: 117171	Yeah, the heavy flywheel is not what I'd like to see in a sports car. I'm OK with harder to drive if there is a reason for it. It's almost like SRM was an excuse to use an even heavier flywheel and have a laggy throttle response. Trying to heel-and-toe the Z without SRM is pretty frustrating.