Wheel spin in 2nd

red6spd · 11-16-2010, 11:15 AM

I got the tail to wag a few times going into 3rd with VDC off... You just got to take it easy unless you want to have fun.

WestCo Scott · 11-16-2010, 11:33 AM

Like stated a tire change won't do much as these stockers are pretty well balanced.

coming from driving a 240sx without any driving aids for a few years these RWD platforms like to kick out a bit when you are a little to aggressive with it. It requires a bit a finesse and a whole lot of getting used to!

-Scott

spearfish25 · 11-16-2010, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexanderb

Sorry this maybe a bit OT but is does wheel spin only happen on the MT? I have the 7AT and have not encountered this even in spirited driving. I even tried one time in a deserted road to take off VDC and aggressively accelerate in 1st and 2nd and it does not happen to me. Is there something wrong with my Z?

You live in Manila. It's like 120F there all the time and the tarmac is probably 150F. Your tires were nice and gummy before you even started driving!

christian370z · 11-16-2010, 01:19 PM

I can always get VDC to kick in when I punch it at any point in second and many times while I am in third gear as well, but a lot of this is due to my base open differential I believe. Wider stickier tires will definitely help in many ways, that is my plan to gain some grip next year.

wilsonp · 11-17-2010, 01:52 AM

I've seen the VDC light up accelerating at WOT on the 1-2 and the 2-3 in fairly warm weather (75?) with tires warm after 15 minutes of curved driving using the paddles.

For a low (ish) torque car, it does pretty good

ImportConvert · 11-17-2010, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilsonp

I've seen the VDC light up accelerating at WOT on the 1-2 and the 2-3 in fairly warm weather (75?) with tires warm after 15 minutes of curved driving using the paddles.

For a low (ish) torque car, it does pretty good

Blowing the tires off with 270 fwtq when you floor a car in 2nd gear isn't what I would call a good thing. I am curious if anyone knows the stock spring-rates on the Z? It has to be a suspension deal, the tires on those cars are not junk and 75* is not cold.

EDIT:
FRONT:
OE rate: Linear 74 N/mm (422 lbs/in)

REAR:
OE rate: Linear 79 N/mm (450 lbs/in)

Found this. Not really that stiff. I dunno why these cars are so traction-challenged. With their weight, balance, power, and tires, they shouldn't spin this easily. I noticed the same thing in my friend's 'vert. Hitting it in 2nd would light up the VDC. Rediculous.

samb03 · 11-17-2010, 05:39 PM

You need to think about gear ratios. for the manual 2nd gear is 2.324 w/ a rear final drive ratio of 3.69. multiply those to get your absolute gearing = 8.576. Multiply that time the torque the engine is producing. 270lbs @the crank at 5200rpm. This makes a grand total of 2315.3 lbs/ft so I guess I that is were tire slick comes from.

3rd gear is 1.624x3.69= 5.992x270=1617lb/ft.

the 96 trans am w/ 6sp manual makes 325lbs@2400 (according to MSN.auto) 3.42 final ratio (there was also a 2.73 rear ratio) and 1.78 ratio second gear. make total torque multiplation of 1978lbs@ peak torque in second gear. If you hit it hard and are above 2400 you will have less torque.

I know theres torque numbers aren't real world numbers but they are the best I have to work with. And it is more about the principal then the actual figures.

wilsonp · 11-17-2010, 07:00 PM

The 7AT has even more effective torque due to its gearing (I have a spreadsheet I haven't posted on it yet...)

Since the torque curve is so flat, the car makes around 200 rwt from around 2500 RPM to 6500 RPM, so the 7AT has 3300 in 1st, 2141 in 2nd and 1370 in 3rd versus the manual's 2800 in 1st, 1713 in 2nd and 1196 in 3rd. With the heavy flywheel/rotational mass of the 370Z's engine, that makes wheelspin at shifts even more likely. Even assuming a cf of 1.5, seems like we have enough force to spin.

Cmike2780 · 11-17-2010, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilsonp

The 7AT has even more effective torque due to its gearing (I have a spreadsheet I haven't posted on it yet...)

Since the torque curve is so flat, the car makes around 200 rwt from around 2500 RPM to 6500 RPM, so the 7AT has 3300 in 1st, 2141 in 2nd and 1370 in 3rd versus the manual's 2800 in 1st, 1713 in 2nd and 1196 in 3rd. With the heavy flywheel/rotational mass of the 370Z's engine, that makes wheelspin at shifts even more likely. Even assuming a cf of 1.5, seems like we have enough force to spin.

You guys are a bunch of nerds.

ImportConvert · 11-17-2010, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samb03

You need to think about gear ratios. for the manual 2nd gear is 2.324 w/ a rear final drive ratio of 3.69. multiply those to get your absolute gearing = 8.576. Multiply that time the torque the engine is producing. 270lbs @the crank at 5200rpm. This makes a grand total of 2315.3 lbs/ft so I guess I that is were tire slick comes from.

3rd gear is 1.624x3.69= 5.992x270=1617lb/ft.

the 96 trans am w/ 6sp manual makes 325lbs@2400 (according to MSN.auto) 3.42 final ratio (there was also a 2.73 rear ratio) and 1.78 ratio second gear. make total torque multiplation of 1978lbs@ peak torque in second gear. If you hit it hard and are above 2400 you will have less torque.

I know theres torque numbers aren't real world numbers but they are the best I have to work with. And it is more about the principal then the actual figures.

I think you have nailed it! Good points!

11-16-2010, 11:15 AM	#46 (permalink)
red6spd A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Long Island NY Posts: 3,277 Drives: 2010 Z Coupe M6 SPT Rep Power: 21	I got the tail to wag a few times going into 3rd with VDC off... You just got to take it easy unless you want to have fun. __________________ 2010 Base+Sport 6spd: Stillen G3, FI Non-Resonated CBE, FI Non-Resonated Test Pipes, UpRev Tuned, Custom 24R Oil Cooler, JDM Rear Fog-OEM Harness. ???Whp ???WTQ (Will find out come spring time)

11-16-2010, 11:33 AM	#47 (permalink)
WestCo Scott A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: West Covina, Ca Posts: 1,052 Drives: 3million Z Rep Power: 17	Like stated a tire change won't do much as these stockers are pretty well balanced. coming from driving a 240sx without any driving aids for a few years these RWD platforms like to kick out a bit when you are a little to aggressive with it. It requires a bit a finesse and a whole lot of getting used to! -Scott __________________ Providing you with OEM/JDM & aftermarket performance Check us out at thenismoshop.com GTR Button Swap, Nismo Shift Knobs

11-16-2010, 01:19 PM	#49 (permalink)
christian370z A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Newport Beach Posts: 3,900 Drives: 2010 370Z/Saab 900se Rep Power: 432	I can always get VDC to kick in when I punch it at any point in second and many times while I am in third gear as well, but a lot of this is due to my base open differential I believe. Wider stickier tires will definitely help in many ways, that is my plan to gain some grip next year. __________________ -320whp / 259wftlbs- SP Rays -- RE-11s -- SpecialtyZ Tune -- Swift Springs -- Stillen 25R Oil Cooler -- Stillen G3 Intakes -- Berk HFCs -- F.I. 12" CBE -- Stillen Sway Bars -- Es14 Spring -- INGS+1 lip -- CF Spoiler -- GTR Start Button -- VLED Parking Lights -- PWJDM V2 shift knob

11-17-2010, 01:52 AM	#50 (permalink)
wilsonp A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 1,134 Drives: 2009 Touring Sp Nav Rep Power: 17	I've seen the VDC light up accelerating at WOT on the 1-2 and the 2-3 in fairly warm weather (75?) with tires warm after 15 minutes of curved driving using the paddles. For a low (ish) torque car, it does pretty good __________________ 2014 Cayman S PDK Sport Chrono White/Black Was 2009 370Z Touring Sport+Nav 7AT Metallic Black/Persimmon Was 1991 NSX Auto Black/Black

11-17-2010, 05:39 PM	#52 (permalink)
samb03 Base Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: western Oklahoma Posts: 164 Drives: Black Cherry Sport Rep Power: 15	You need to think about gear ratios. for the manual 2nd gear is 2.324 w/ a rear final drive ratio of 3.69. multiply those to get your absolute gearing = 8.576. Multiply that time the torque the engine is producing. 270lbs @the crank at 5200rpm. This makes a grand total of 2315.3 lbs/ft so I guess I that is were tire slick comes from. 3rd gear is 1.624x3.69= 5.992x270=1617lb/ft. the 96 trans am w/ 6sp manual makes 325lbs@2400 (according to MSN.auto) 3.42 final ratio (there was also a 2.73 rear ratio) and 1.78 ratio second gear. make total torque multiplation of 1978lbs@ peak torque in second gear. If you hit it hard and are above 2400 you will have less torque. I know theres torque numbers aren't real world numbers but they are the best I have to work with. And it is more about the principal then the actual figures. Last edited by samb03; 11-17-2010 at 05:41 PM.

11-17-2010, 07:00 PM	#53 (permalink)
wilsonp A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 1,134 Drives: 2009 Touring Sp Nav Rep Power: 17	The 7AT has even more effective torque due to its gearing (I have a spreadsheet I haven't posted on it yet...) Since the torque curve is so flat, the car makes around 200 rwt from around 2500 RPM to 6500 RPM, so the 7AT has 3300 in 1st, 2141 in 2nd and 1370 in 3rd versus the manual's 2800 in 1st, 1713 in 2nd and 1196 in 3rd. With the heavy flywheel/rotational mass of the 370Z's engine, that makes wheelspin at shifts even more likely. Even assuming a cf of 1.5, seems like we have enough force to spin. __________________ 2014 Cayman S PDK Sport Chrono White/Black Was 2009 370Z Touring Sport+Nav 7AT Metallic Black/Persimmon Was 1991 NSX Auto Black/Black

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