2010 Consumer Reports Owner Survey says Z is 45% below average in reliability
 

Consumer Reports has published the results of its 2010 owner survey. The 370 has lost reliability points. It is now shown as solid black (much worse than average). The survey shows results for the 2009 Z. The 2010 hasn't been around long enough for them to rate it.

Engine Minor and Engine Cooling rated worse than average
Paint/trim, squeats and rattles, and body hardware all were rated (by owners) much worse than average.

Everything else, except for audio were rated much better than average.

None of this is a surprise to readers here. The ratings pretty well mirror how people here have discussed their cars. What is concerning to me is the worse than average rating on engine cooling. According to Nissan and backed up by forum members is that for normal driving the oil temps stay below excessive heating. The readers of Consumers Reports are not likely to be tracking their cars. That means a significant number of poeple who use their Z's on public roads are experiencing oil temperature problems. I am assuming it is oil temp, since I haven't seen any reports of water temp getting too high.

They rated the 370 as expected to be 45% below average reliability. The Infiniti G coupe, on the other hand, had much better than average reliability for engine cooling. With an overall reliability rating of average.
The overall rating suggests that G owners will have cars that are 42% above average in reliability. I don't understand how the same engine-transmission combination (7 speet AT) gets such vastly different owner ratings.

Perhaps the Z drivers go a little harder on their cars than the average G owner?

Aside from transmission problems with the 6MT, I think the Z is very mechanically sound. But I agree that the paint was terrible. It's the worst I've had on any car. I know some people had some chipping issues on the front and rear bumpers (I didn't) but my Z was riddled with squeaks, rattles, and of course, ECU whine (2009).

But as far as I'm concerned my issues were all quality issues, NOT reliability.

Probably because the average G owner doesn't push the car to the point of high oil temps. As a new Z owner, ( haven't even taken delivery on my used 09) the fact that these issues are surfacing are a bit concerning to me. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't thinking twice about my purchase.

I did notice that the auto consumer guide rating was rather low. Thankfully my car still has the factory warranty, but still I'd hate have to be in and out of service as soon as I start driving it.

I guess only time will tell.

Well, if you find that you run into cooling issues with your driving style it's very easy to put together an oil cooler to fix your problem.

With regard to paint... I think everyone just kind of learns to live with it. You have to be extra anal about keeping the paint and clear in good condition. Keep it protected and stay out of automatic car washes (unless they're brushless!).

My only complaints are oil cooling (we really should have oil coolers), and paint.

We really should have factory oil coolers, or at least not be 'penalized' for having them installed. And the paint is lame.

I agree. I'd say if you have a cooler installed by a Nissan dealer and documented, it should have NO implications on your warranty at all.

"Owner Survey", sounds like a lot of unhappy owners.

Is the issue with the paint just from chips? What about fading or peeling clear coats?

The paint on my STi was really thin and over the years the silver started to fade pretty bad.

The paint and clear quality that Nissan uses on the Z's is very poor. The clear is ridiculously soft so it will chip and etch very, very easily.

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

Does that count for me? :stirthepot:

Well apparently a supercharger had no implication on your transmission warranty status. :rofl2:

You can't put a warranty on Awesome.

After seeing the title of this thread and being bashed by people here because of my Z complaints, sorta does the following to me...

Probably the G gets better ratings in the "squeaks and rattles" dept. Also, I agree that G owners probably aren't beating up on the car quite as much, and thus not as likley to deal with oil temp issues.

I'm just disappointed that my fuel sender is bad -- it's a minor problem, but on a brand new car? Nissan should really find a better unit and issue a recall.

They should also extend the oil consumption TSB to the Z.

+1

Unless it's actual warranty claims that can be quantified this info is worthless and nothing new.

On a side note, after what CR said about the Iphone 4 and the bullshat that was caused from a really minor antenna issue
I completely disregard their opinion on products.

sa weet!

Sorry man, I didn't mean to imply that Nissan would honor warranty claims if you had an oil cooler installed. I meant it as in I wished that were the case.

IMHO, to the extreme, G drivers are grandpas and Z drivers are uncles. They are apples and oranges.

I remember when people on this forum were getting these Consumer Reports surveys. It was during the height of what I call "The Great Oil Temp Scare of 2009". People frequently posted on the forum that they just got a survey and listed the oil temps as a key problem. The unfortunate backlash of that behavior is that those owners have now potentially lessened the resale value by getting us a nice black circle on CR. The reality of the oil temp 'problem' is that it's not really a problem. Most people (as shown by numerous impromptu surveys on this site) have never really had a PROBLEM with oil temperatures. They were perceived problems when the temp gauge went to 240F but there was never limp mode or engine failures due to the temps. Those of us who track the car have experienced a true need for oil coolers, but that should not get reflected in a CR survey.

A special thanks to everyone who vented their frustration of a not-so-real problem during street driving by filling out the survey with frivolous complaints.

A real survey should give low marks for the following areas: 1) cabin noise during highway driving (it's a sports car but it shouldn't be this loud), 2) inaccurate fuel gauges, 3) high pitch whining sound from ECU (many people certainly have this), 4) brittle paint.

Fortunately, not a single one of those issues would change my mind about buying the car.

Check out the definitions of the areas where the Z faired poorly in the survey. The real irony is that we're going to get a nasty symbol for 'engine major' now that people are starting to freak about oil consumption too. My guess at the issue getting the low marks for each area is listed in blue italics.

Engine, minor: Oil leaks, accessory belts, engine mounts, engine knock or ping. people complaining of valvetrain noise from the VVEL (probably no real problem present), a few may have reported their blown aftermarket oil cooler lines as oil leaks which would be ridiculous

Engine, cooling: Radiator, cooling fan, antifreeze leaks, water pump, thermostat, overheating. The Great Oil Temp Scare of 2009

Paint/trim: Paint (fading, chalking, cracking, or peeling), loose exterior trim or moldings, rust. easily chipped paint, a few orange peel complaints, the random unhappiness from swirls on black paint

Body integrity: Squeaks or rattles, seals and/or weather-stripping, air or water leaks, loose interior trim and moldings, wind noise. road noise mainly during highway driving and debris hitting wheel liners

Body hardware: Windows, locks and latches, tailgate, hatch or trunk, doors or sliding doors, mirrors, seat controls, seat belts, sunroof, convertible top, glass defects. the 'stuck hatch' issue and the base model seats moving around

I don't get how those relatively minor issues landed us with the worst possible overall reliability rating. A solid black dot I mean come on it cant be that bad

CR says that if they get over 3% of surveys with those complaints, the vehicle gets a black circle for that category.

Wow... that's a really tight tolerance.

I could understand maybe 3.5/5 stars for quality because of some of the issues the Z's have, but reliability?

Aside from the problems some of the 6MTs experience (CSC failures and bum synchros) the rest of the mechanical reliability problems seem to be anomalies only.

Pretty unfortunate if you ask me. And yeah, given the number of buyers that consult CR before making a used vehicle purchase this could definitely impact resale value for the negative. :shakes head:

I am referring to the overall reliability not each individual category

One problem, this isn't a Consumer Report opinion or judgement. It's a survey report from the 370 owners, that CR did.

Even though my oil consumption led to a new short block, the car reliably ran every day. The oil cooler issue is no big deal to me even though I needed one. I just bit the bullet and got one. Why the warranty could be void after installation by Nissan is nuts.

Car appears to be well made
 

I've only had the car for 10 days. However, it appears well made. The interior seems well fitted with good materials. Comparable to my 2004 BMW 325 CI.

I agree but I guess the first part of my post didn't make that clear.

Regardless, I disregard their opinion now.

Spearfish, you hit the nail right on the head!

Another reason for the g37 crowd not complaining about the oil temp issue as much might be the fact that they don't have an oil temp gauge... The only way they find out about the oil temp will be when they hit limp mode and that, as we all know, will most likely only happen on the track.

Quality and reliability are two completely different issues that people can confused with each other.

To me the car is reliable and has some quality issues like the paint.

No car out there is perfect!

Anyhow the Z is a great car! :tup:

I just got my short block installed. The car runs better than when it was new and they did an excellent job as far as clean.

Sounds to me like this inferior paint/clearcoat situation could have the makings of a class action law suit. I've seen class actions filed over very speculative allegations of defect. These allegations seem to be supported in fact. A national level class action law firm should take a look at this one.

No issues here
 

I have a 2009 Sport/Touring and she has 19,000 miles....only problem I had was the rear hatch...however that was a quick fix with adjusting the rubber stoppers....as far as cabin noise...don't notice.....no ECU whining....as far as oil temp..she stays around 180ish normal drive and 220ish if I push her alil on the highway but also depends on ambient temperature outside...no coolant temp issues, radio is Bose and its good to go....comfort good to go....paint is ok...would be nice for a thicker or more road friendly clear coat....

All in all.......... my Z status coming from a previous Lexus IS300 Owner:

Mechanical: 9/10
Comfort (Inside Interior): 9/10
Comfort (Road): 9/10 (8/10 on Crappy Roads)
Visual Appeal: 10/10
Fuel Cost: 10/10
Navigation: 10/10 (Haven't got me lost :P)
Radio/CD/IPOD/Bluetooth: 10/10 Pretty nice for STOCK Bose
Resale K.B.B.: 10/10
Tire Price: BLAH :P LMAO

I'm just waiting on Craft Square TC-F (Short) Mirrors :) and MRworks Fenders :) and my Z will be complete ;) SHIFT_the way you move :) :yum:

Actually, last year the reports were the opposite. Also, CR has no input intot these ratings. They are based purely on the survey which is sent to every CR subscriber (several million of them).

Does the G have an oil temp guage? If not, then the difference in owner satisfaction around engiine temp could be that they couldn't watch the temp rise like we do. Also, driving habits probably figure in.

People don't respond to surveys unless they have an extreme opinion.

While I generally think CR pushing these results can lead people to make horrible choices when making big purchases, perhaps it will get the attention of people at Nissan and lead to TSBs, improved quality, etc.

I would really want to know what the "issues" were that gave the car a low rating. For example, my new Z had a faulty tire pressure gage and the hatch does not open on the first try but on the second. The dealer replaced the faulty indicator and Nissan has issued a bulletin on the hatch matter and so that will soon be fixed. Also the amplifier on the radio was not working and so that had to be replaced. That is three problems in the first week but my point is that these are just minor things.. yes they should not have happened but they are really no big deal. Its not like the engine blew or the transmission slipped. Now that these "problems" with the gage have been fixed and the radio and the hatch are soon to be corrected everything will be perfect.

I am very happy with my new Z but unless something really serious happens I can only say there were some minor problems that caused a bit of aggravation but did not seriously detract from the quality of the car.
However if I were surveyed I would have to say I had far more "problems" with this car then with my previous Honda but not knowing the details someone might think this car is junk when in fact the problems were very minor. So all in all I think that without knowing the details of exactly what kinds of problems owners encountered the low rating of the car might give a very false impression.
Of course if the wheels fall off tomorrow.. well then that is another matter but unless that happens I will say the car is of excellent quality but that a little more attention could be given to the small details which can really hurt the image of a really good car.