manual question.
 

So since im new to a manual and i am the king of stalls in first gear or to much gas and launch like a bat out of hell(im a pro at that). My friend who is teaching me, she is telling me DO NOT cruise at 40mph in 6th gear its bad for the engine.

Shes a good teacher but im wondering is it true?

And any thing else you guys wanna point out to tell me NOT to do that will save my a** some time and grief.

Oh yeah i been watching utube videos on how to drive manual for a smoother first gear start.

40 might be a tad too slow, but for a car like that it shouldnt be a problem if ur just "cruising" and dont need pulls. im in 2nd gear at 40 mph man lol

for older weaker cars she's right.

this thread is hella helpful

Official Learn To Drive Manual Cars Thread - BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum - E90Post.com

btw where's the 707 area code?

lets see, santa rosa, windsor, healsburg, cloverdale, ukiah, any of those towns ring a bell?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_code_707
this helps to it lists them all and shows map of area i am at

Every car is different, as each one has its one gear ratios between the transmission and rear-end. Also, the amount of torque an engine has is a factor also.

You'll get used to the car soon enough, and you'll be able to tell if the revs are too low for the gear you're in. The most important thing is to keep from riding the clutch, which will wear it out too fast. At the same time, you don't want to let the pedal out too fast, or you'll stall. Traction control can be your friend while you're learning to drive a stick. Good luck!!

Another question, im getting better at starting first and reverse but reverse even with no foot on the gas it shoots backwards like a bat out of hell.

So heres what i end up doing for reverse.
#1 I end up keeping my left foot sort of pressed on the clutch
#2 I find if i let go of the clutch and press the brake to slow down = stall
#3 i find a clutch+brake combo = sort of slow reverse with out gas even used.
#4 I will either clutch all in + brake to stop or stall out cuz i forgot to put in clutch
Am i doing this wrong for a slow reverse?

For first gear, i end up doing same method,
#1 i let the clutch out slowly till i start to roll
#2 I start to put gas in at this point to assist
#3 i start to give more gas till im moving at a decent pace
#4 at this point i start easeing off the clutch
this seem accurate or am i doing it wrong?

The key to smooth driving is finding the clutch engagement point. When i learned to drive manual, i went to a vacant parking lot and practiced my stop and go driving for an hour a day. A week later, I had improved dramatically. If you can find a little incline to practice standing starts up a hill, this will also help you improve the feel of the clutch (not only to prepare you for the car rolling back as you start from the hill in possible traffic). Try gently applying the gas and in turn, gently letting up off the clutch. Once you feel the car lurching forward, put the clutch back down if you feel the motor bogging or ease it up to start forward. It wont take long before you will begin to take off smooth without bogging down, just start slow. Practice makes perfect.

i been doing this, i just need to make sure that im not messing any thing and doing the right steps, i know my cordination is not there yet but im hoping the steps i am applying are right.

Btw i have been doing a hour and then some driving every night. I still need to find a incline hill.

Tonight i will be out for 3-4 hours hahah

Here's a quick tip for steep inclines. Let's say you stop at a red light on a big hill and some a-hole pulls up right behind your bumper. Engage the parking brake, then give it gas and engage the clutch like you normally would. When you feel the transmission load, let off the e-brake. This whole operation should last about 1-2 seconds...in other words, don't start driving with the e-brake on. Just use it to keep you from rolling back while you work the clutch.

soon as i find a hill i will be practising the ebrake start

In reverse, applying the brakes is probably not a good idea. For the amount of time you spend in reverse, just easy the clutch out until it grabs enough to get you going, then put the clutch back in, repeat as necessary. This isn't going to do much wear and tear on the clutch. "Burning" the clutch with high rpm-and-hold starts does a lot more damage. Also, if you're at a stop light always go to neutral and clutch out. If you keep the clutch in it will shorten the life of the bearings.

With modern fly-by-wire throttle/accelerator pedals, there is a lot of skill and finesse in getting a car into first and off the line smoothly. In the pony, I can't wait for the clutch to grab before applying the gas because it bogs to quickly, so i tend to rev as I clutch out. If I need a quick start, i tend to let the revs hit 1500 before the clutch starts grabbing. I've gotten better about this and i think I'm normally do it at about 1100 now.

Hill starts are always going require more wear and tear on the clutch. But the other option is rolling into whoever is behind you. I'd make sure you're very comfortable with the multitasking required of manual shifting. I tried my first hill start when i was still uncomfortable shifting during turns and it wasn't pretty. I had a incline (about 6 inches rise over the length of the car)coming out of my families house that i didin't really need a hill start for, but it was good practice to use the e-brake on that incline. It was enough for the car to roll, but not very quickly.

If the car is broken in properly, there's no reason to worry about cruising at any speed as long as you're above 1500 RPM. Not true for ALL motors, but it's a good rule of thumb. I cruise in final gear at 40 all the time in all the manuals I drive.

Also, remember that an Automatic will shift into it's final gear too if the car is driving 40+mph.

That is what i was telling my trainer! she was like hell no!

Meh... Well, it's not bad to cruise in 5th either, though. When you don't need her anymore, cruise in 6th! :) Getting into 6th at 40 in a low torque car doesn't really spare you much gas really. In a torque-heavy V8, 6th is going to save gas, but it shouldn't be a big deal with the VQ37.

when you back up get on the clutch just lightly until it starts moving then depress the clutch back and forth to make the car move as u want. riding the clutch (altho a horrible habit when normally driving) but when ur reversing it's what u gotta do. hoping ur not backing up for 1/4 of a mile lol

i figured 707 is very far, lol i was gonna offer to drive to where u are and show u but never mind that.

oh, on start do not get in the habit of getting the car move then gas. just rev it up to 1000 or 1500 then engage the clutch (stick to it for a second or 2) and go

did alot of practising, my foot is finding that engagment part of the clutch faster while my other foot is hitting the gas barely faster also, so its improving alot. Im working on now putting my clutch+gas at same spot at same time with 'speed' or tryign to increase my speed.

Good for you. I mean that.

Not that I'd ever do such a thing. If I wanted driving to be complicated, I'd go learn how to drive a big rig! :)

another question. Some times my shifts from first to second are jumpy and i have not figured out why, some times they smooth some times they are not, only thing i can figure out is putting gas in while shifting seems to smooth it out a tad bit.

Don't worry its mainly inexperience you'll get the feel in time.. Also be aware that your car (im assuming your talking about your Z) and transmission are still new and not fully broken in yet. So things will be a little clunky at 1st..

First gear is a funny one, it's usually quite a bit differently spaced than the other gears, i.e. it has a higher ratio. This is because this is the gear that gets you going, so the ratio of wheel to engine is a lot higher. This makes the shift from stationary a lot easier. The shift from first to second can therefore be unique in timing, and the car doesn't have enough inertia to smooth it out, because the engine still has enough inertia itself to slow or startle the car when the clutch grabs.

edit: i mis-read before i wrote this next bit, thought you said 2nd to 1st, but it's still good info.

I can't remember the last time I downshifted into first while street driving, because even at 1k rpm I'm going like 5mph in second at which point downshifting further isn't really needed. Very rarely do I go into second as I slow to a stop. Because of the wider separation in the gears between second and first, expect to have to rev the engine a bit to get the synchros to mesh/match up. You should do that a bit every time you downshift (like the synchro-rev does) to save your clutch a bit. It's normally called heel-and-toe braking. Though really, it just makes you sound like you know what you're doing ;) Double clutching is a similar maneuver where you clutch out in the middle of a shift, but that's not a necessity since the introduction of sychros.

not street driving is another story ;)

yeah i doing all this driving on the Z.

and yeah i ment getting into first gear then getting into second gear smoothly, i can do the rest of the shifts smooth but not that one every time its kind of like oh man what did i do! haha

^Let me tell you, I've been driving manual transmissions, exclusively, mostly on sports/sporty cars for close to 15 years, and the 1st to 2nd shift is still never ultra "smooth". A lot of it has to do with what epod86 explained, and to some degree, you'll get better with time.

As epod86 said, it has to do with momentum and inertia of the gears, and how quickly the engine will spin-down when you move out of 1st, on your way to 2nd. I bet you, the shift from 1st to 2nd is a lot smoother, if you rev first higher and higher before shifting (now I'm not saying to do that on a daily basis) it's just that in that case, you've rev'ed the engine higher, and there's more momentum going and as such it's slower to spin down.

Final words of advice, either make the shift from 1st to 2nd very quick. Or, make it slow and smooth, but let the clutch out a little slower as/and after you've shifted into 2nd, and make sure you're (not so much blipping) but at least "massaging" the gas pedal as you're letting out the clutch (again, right as/after you've shifted into 2nd).
This will make things smoother.

Aye, you will get better with time. Then again, you will still screw up. I just stalled on Saturday. Forgot to take it out of gear in stop and go. Doesn't get more n00b that that.

**** happens. Practice makes less **** happen.

You are right "slow and smooth" is working for me, its obviously no speed racer move but for right now, i only care how to daily drive.

It's NEVER smooth when you're racing. I always understood it to be acceptable if you're racing, to have harsh shifts.

^^^ LOL! Harsh is the right word. Even in my N/A 300zx I peal-wheel in 2nd and chirp 3rd. :D

The thing with racing is you want to be as harsh without 'unbalancing' the drive train or frame. Unbalancing is just a fancy way of saying you cocked it up enough to spin out, or lose control.

practicing manual on the new Z
 

My new 2009 370Z, P.Graphite, Touring, 6 Speed, Sports,Nav, etc is scheduled to be shipped to the dealer next month.
After breking in period of course, I want to teach my niece how to drive a manual. do you think she should practice with the SRM on or off?
Knowing very well that her next car most likely will be an auto, but even if she decides on a manual, it will be a "regular" manual trans.

thanks.

OFF. And no, it's not because I'm a Luddite. I have SRM and use it almost constantly. My thought is that the 370Z is the only car with SRM right now. So she needs to know what to expect if she one day goes and drives a different car with a MT. Let me put it this way, imagine she gets accustomed to just dropping the clutch back in on a downshift, and it's nice and smooth due to SRM. Then she goes and tries the same thing with a different MT car. Wham! Talk about a rude awakening.

Edit: Btw, you're a REALLY nice uncle to teach your niece how to drive MT with your new Z! I don't think I could stand doing that! lol

Guess you're right. Thats what I'll do. She needs to learn the hard way.
About letting her drive-- Its a family thing.

well im spoiled then cuz im learning with SRM and guess what im NOT turning it off haha! When i am "good" at SRM i will turn it off and learn with out.

I look at it like this SRM = a stepping stool to learn how to make it easyer, once i get past that i can learn with out it, but for now its a great assistance.

first learn how not to stall and take it easy on the clutch kid. SRM has more going on then you can comprehend at this point.

When I teach people how to drive stick, I teach them how TO stall the car! I want them to know what makes the car stall. Hills, breaking without clutching, easing the car into an idle roll, etc. When the driver gets an idea of where the car's clutch engages, and what it feels like just before a stall, it makes it MUCH easier to learn how NOT to stall the car. Stalling a couple times in the beginning isn't really bad for the car, but learning not to stall at all is even more valuable.

That is an excellent recommendation for beginners!

quick question... on hills a buddy of mine recommended that while at stop... with foot still on brake... slowly release the clutch near to right before engagement point so that once you release the brake to hit the gas.. the car won't be rolling back as fast because it is slightly engaged... i tried this the other day and it seemed to work good especially when cars are right behind your as$!.. my question is.. is this ok for the transmission, or is the e-brake recommended.. i just hate doing the e-brake cause i feel like its to much tings at once.. and im a lazy guy :ughdance:

It should be fine as long as you're not doing it for the entire duration of the light. Like do it only when you're ready to take off.

NOoooooooooooooo, dont do it in the 370, PLEASE!!!! Get someones civic, the incline is a clutch killer if not done properly....not in the 370, please...

I have found i dont really need the ebrake for a hill, i just put more gas than normal and release clutch tad bit faster, it kind of shoots me foward faster than i want but it seems to get the job done.

I am sure one day i will need the ebrake technique wich is why i want to be semi good at.

I don't recommend this. It's not a good practice. It takes a bit of learning, but you will eventually be able to just let off the break and know exactly where your clutch's engagement point is and be on the gas before rolling back. I'm on hills all the time, and if I roll back at all, it's not more than an inch. It's just a matter of knowing your car. If you're in someone else's car, sure, use the e-brake, but don't ride the clutch.

Best practice is that you should never sit at a light or stop in neutral for the following reasons:

A) If you're a good driver and you leave enough space in front of you while you sit behind a car at a stop, you'll have a better chance of getting out of the way in time if a car is coming up behind you too fast to NOT hit you. (Let them hit the person in front of you, but get the hell out of the way!)

B) When you're on an incline (hill), it takes longer to put the car into gear. Having the car in gear with one foot on the clutch and one foot on the brake will save you plenty of time and you'll be ready to just get on the gas to prevent roll back. (Remember, you must be in total neutral for more than a second before the car picks up speed on a roll back.) So the time between your right foot getting to the gas from the brake peddle is VERY short.

C) Staying in the habit of always being in gear will help prevent forgetting you're not in gear at a light, or forgetting to clutch in at a stop.


I'm sure there are more reasons, but these are the reasons I personally keep the car in gear at all times.

isnt your method considered riding the clutch? wich shorten its life span? I sort of read you want to go into neutral so you dont ride the clutch.

I respect the love for a manual car. I, myself, have never learned to drive manual because there have never been any of those cars around me for me to learn in. I would actually love to to learn how to drive manual. It seems very engaging.

That being said, the new Z seems to redefine the difference between the two transmissions as far as performance goes. In a car where the two available transmissions allow delivery of almost IDENTICAL HP/Torque numbers, I don't see how anyone could pick the manual as far as straight up pedal to the metal performance goes.

Sure the manual is much more engaging and fun, I can't comment on that. I don't deny that from those that say that. However, in a straight line I'd like to see who would be able to clutch shift faster than the push of a paddle shifter and actually have a faster time, possibly.

Those are just some thoughts that have come to my head.

My source is 370z.com.