Nissan 370Z Forum - Explain these numbers: Carrera S vs 370Z

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Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianMSmith (Post 724327)

Are the HP numbers from a dyno, or quoted from the manufacturer? I'd look at that.

My old Camaro was rated at 315HP, but it put down 310 at the rear wheels. the Z is rated at 330HP, but puts down 280HP at the wheels.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see what the big deal is between the numbers (say 332 as the mfg claim, and 280 at the dyno). Manufacturers quote their HP ratings as HP at the crank. Add in the "typical" 15% drivetrain loss for a RWD manual, and for the Z, you're looking at 280HP at the wheels. I'm pretty sure you're going to have a similar difference for just about every car, unless the mfg under-rates their crank numbers. (If your Camaro was rated at 315HP by Chevrolet, then they were either giving the wheel HP number (which they don't normally do), or the engine was more like 362HP at the crank. There's no way your Camaro had only 2% drivetrain loss.)

Again, maybe I'm missing something, but I'm not sure why people are thinking something is "up" with this.

I think the "numbers" have been explained over the course of this thread. Let me summarize.

1. Porsche may understate their HP
2. RWD Rear Engine cars may have less drive train loss
3. Porsches are cool
4. 370zs are cool
5. 370zs with a bunch of mods are faster than 370zs without
6. Porsche 911s with a bunch of mods would be fast too
7. Porsche 911s are expensive
8. 370zs are cheap
9. Some people can afford 911s
10. Some people can't
11. Porsche service is expensive
12. Porsche customer service is good
13. iphone customer service is good
14. Droid customer service is bad
15. Droid customer service is good
16. Porsche aint just any car
17. Girls like Porsches
18. Cougars like 370zs (wait ... that's a different thread)
19. Hookers are cheaper than Porsches
20. The Prius gets better gas mileage than the Mustang 5.0

I think that about covers it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaggeron (Post 725081)

21. Summerization

@nurseryboy, You are missing point 2, though I think that should be

2. RWD Mid-engine cars have significantly less drivetrain loss.

I thought I’ll take a stab at this too!

I thought I’ll just take a stab at this !<o></o>

I think the real issue here is not that the Porsche is not a great car and worth what it is too many.<o></o>
Porsche quality, high standers and branding are legendary! <o>

</o> That being said someone on this forum once said that the "Z" car was all about pricing I agree, I don’t agree :shakes head: with Porsche , Cayman "S" pricing, MSRP: $61,500.00.
<o>
</o> The real question in my humble opinion, is how much better is the Cayman "S"? For example is a Porsche, Cayman "S" $21,500.00 better than a stock 370Z, <link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CALEXCA%7E1%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5 Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><link rel="themeData" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CALEXCA%7E1%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5 Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_themedata.thmx"><link rel="colorSchemeMapping" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CALEXCA%7E1%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5 Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_colorschememapping.xml"> <style>  </style> and at the end of the day are you getting $21 500.00 more car?<o></o> IMO the answer is <link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CALEXCA%7E1%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5 Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><link rel="themeData" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CALEXCA%7E1%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5 Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_themedata.thmx"><link rel="colorSchemeMapping" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CALEXCA%7E1%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5 Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_colorschememapping.xml"> <style>  </style>a resounding “NO”<o>.

</o> IMO, on any given day a stock “Z” may not win but is capable of given a Cayman “S” a run for it's money, IMHO it will come down to driver talent!<o>:driving:

</o> Now if I just add simple bolt on’s to the equation , even an average driver with an AT will give a Cayman "S" a hard time and a good driver with an MT and less than $3000.00 in bolt on's will equal or surpass it , so where or what did the other $18 grand go on ?<o> :eek:

</o> Simply but Porsche in its existing Cayman line-up can’t justify IMO $21.500.00 different in price.
<o></o>
For that type of money even if it's a losing scenario for the “Z” car vs "Porsche" it’s too close to the Porsche brand.<o>

</o> Unless Porsche can clearly separate and justify for that type of money a much greater gap in performance value that’s on par with that type of money, it will be staring in its rear view mirror as the contender “Z" car catches up!<o></o>

I love both cars!
<o>
</o> Alex <o></o>

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elia Cid (Post 725367)

While the Z may be cheaply modified to catch and give the Porsche a hard time, you also risk voiding your warranty and having Nissan giving you even more hell when sh!t hits the fan.

Porsche on the other hand will will still be stock, have better build materials, better paint quality, better customer service and it all comes without modifying it.

In the end the 370z is like the poor mans Porsche.

The enjoyment and excitement IMO of owning a “Z “, are the affordable personal touches and mods making it your own work in progress ,your very own masterpiece on wheels!

<link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CALEXCA%7E1%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5 Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><link rel="themeData" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CALEXCA%7E1%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5 Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_themedata.thmx"><link rel="colorSchemeMapping" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CALEXCA%7E1%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5 Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_colorschememapping.xml"> <style>  </style>In that case, more than half the folks on this forum are already in hot water with their mods and Nissan dealers :eek:<o>

</o> Like I said I agree with your points on build quality and all , but it just doesn't <link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CALEXCA%7E1%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5 Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><link rel="themeData" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CALEXCA%7E1%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5 Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_themedata.thmx"><link rel="colorSchemeMapping" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CALEXCA%7E1%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5 Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_colorschememapping.xml"> <style>  </style> add up in my book, you are just not getting $21 500.00 more or better car than a “Z “,that's nipping on its heels.

Ok maybe 10 grand, even pushing it 15 grand but 21, plus or the price of two base “Z” cars! I think not, sorry!<o>

</o> Wow!! What an awesome poor mans ride!!<o></o>

But like I say, too each his own!<o></o> :tiphat:

Alex <o></o>
<o>
</o>

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elia Cid (Post 725802)

I'll be honest, I agree with you 100% that the price difference is unjustifiable.

People that would rather buy a Porsche most likely buy Porsche not only for the performance but also the luxury.

Many of us that drives the 370z don't really care for the luxury, that is why the Porsche is just over priced.

Others have said this before but why compare the Z against anything for speed and performance, dollar for dollar. Heck, buy an old Vega and stuff a 572 in it and hope the Z or any other comparison car doesn't catch you in the turns.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IDZRVIT (Post 725822)

Some people just compare numbers posted in magazines. If two cars have the same skidpad rating, then handling must be equivalent, no? Porsche's cost more due it being a complete package, intangibles included.

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread. We've deviated a bit from my original question which was essentially "why do the Porsche performance numbers trounce the Z's when the specs aren't all that different?" For an answer, suffice to say the engine layout plays a big role in both the 0-60 times and minimizing the drivetrain losses. In both areas, the Z is at a disadvantage.