oil overheating unique to vq37vhr engine?
 

I was reading the latest edition of Dsport magazine where they reviewed several RWD cars. Predictably they criticized the 370z for the engine overheating its oil and shutting down after 2-3 laps on the track. They mentioned that the Genesis Coupe doesn't have this problem. This got me thinking, are there any other cars out there with a similar overheating problem other than the 370z and g37?

I know bmw's turbocharged 335i also overheats easily, but other than that, what else? Gen Coupe, Corvette, Viper, Mustang, Camaro, Cayman and 911, M3, M5, Lotus Elise/Exige, Miata, Rx 8, ferrari, lamborghini, aston martin, turbocharged cars like the STi, Evo, and even Nissan's own GT-R do not overheat and go into limp mode after 3 laps on the track. As far as I know most, if not all, of these cars do not have an oil cooler from the factory.

So the question is why do they not overheat and shut down like our cars on the track? Is it that they do not produce much heat? If so what is so different about our engines that make them overheat so much? If these cars do heat up their oil so much, why do they not go into limp mode? Are their engines not as vulnerable to hot oil as our engines? If so why? Why would the vq37vhr engine be unusually vulnerable to hot oil? Or is it simply the case that the oil in these cars does overheat like our cars and their engine also suffers excessive wear and tear as a result but the manufacturer just couldn't care to put a limp mode for engine protection.

Does the Genesis have a temp gauge? Maybe it should shut down, but wasn't programmed to...

Crappy air flow.

Without digging into specs, I'd guess that the high-end cars do come with oil coolers. Heck, my 2000 Celica had one.
I think it would do Nissan well if they'd look at revamping the entire cooling system, no just the oil system. Oil temps are at the end of the chain. If the engine was cooled adequately, the oil temps wouldn't be so high.

Don't know so much but I think the fact that its the most productive V6 has something to do with it... we are getting 330 from a V6 where everyone behind is getting 306 and under....

Good question OP. Nobody's ever gotten down to the core about this. My s2000 never had an oil heating prob. My friend's genesis coupe 3.8 who I went to the track with a few times when i had the s never had this prob either. My buddy who drives a 335i tho.....is a different story. His cruising temps are 250+.

It is kinda crazy. My s under hard driving would see almost 230...while it was an iron sleeved, closed deck stroker motor producing over 3 times the stock hp. I remember the guys that built it thinking it was a real problem to see temps that high. My mind was blown when I saw that 370s operated there.

Yeah, the 335i is the only other car apart from the 370z and g37 to suffer heating problems, but that car is twin turbocharged, so at least it's somewhat understandable the amount of heat produced.

Did the 350z have an overheating problem? I'm not sure but I never heard of it. Could the reason be the VVEL in our engines? I read that there's a lot of friction going on over there, part of the reason why Nissan developed the diamond-like coating on the VVEL and recommends their ester oil. Maybe the excess friction generates too much heat?

The RX8 would have oil temp issues and I think some of the early models did and they had an oil cooler. I had a 2006 and it had 2 oil coolers.

This just may be my ignorance, but I do not buy the whole 'the VQ is a high performing engine, that is why it runs hot' notion. Do not most engines have similar setups?? I know it is an inline 6, but did the E46 M3 have overheating issues??? Same type power was produced from it.

I think that is the VQ37's issue is that it does not have oil coolers. I would like to see a Stangs or a Genesis oil temps. To the earlier point, do they even know what temps their oil is reaching?

OOOOOOOOld news

very oooooold news. news flash if you track your car or dog the crap out of it
get an oil cooler. if you drive the car so hard it goes into safe mode doesn't that tell you something. should nissan included oil coolers with these cars? yes
but they didn't to keep cost down. everyone knows going in how they are going to drive their cars before they buy them do your homework first. i'm not on a soap box,but under normal conditions these car and sometimes not so normal these cars still kick -ss. sorry to ramble oil temp threads do that to me.:tiphat:

I remember hearing the New Evo's with that fancy auto tranny was overheating the transmissions. Just figured it was kind of the same.

http://pix.motivatedphotos.com/2009/...0-FACEPALM.jpg


seriously, did you even read the original post? i know the vq37 has an overheating problem. the entire universe knows it. and yes, i already got myself a huge *** 34 row oil cooler a long time ago, thanks for the advice :rolleyes:

the point of the discussion was to find out what exactly is unique or different about the vq37 compared to other high performance engines that makes it produce so much heat and go into limp mode so quickly while other cars keep going without the need for an aftermarket oil cooler.

that's true, actually many automated manual transmissions do overheat and require an oil cooler. i think it could be due to the higher pressures they used compared to slushbox autos. also, don't forget most of these transmissions have wet clutches, so the oil is used to cool down the clutch.

I wish i knew what it was and how to correct it without voiding my warranty. The highest oil temp i've had is 220-224 in 90+ degree heat, so not bad. It's always in the back of my mind that dreaded oil temp. It's a uncomfortable feeling:(

My oil temp gets to 230 pretty easily here in Texas. (Freeway driving.)

The real question is.... what temperature is "too high" and when should i be worried?

Ill be getting an oil cooler within the next few weeks.

Jmo

HAHA.. nice

Good idea. I am only at 220*-225* on the freeway, and am often over 250*-260* within a mile or two of spirited driving. I am having mine (oil cooler) put on Sept 20 when they replace the short block.

The Genesis coupe needs an oil cooler if you are going to track it hard. The oil temps easily climb towards 300 degrees, the main difference ... the car has no oil temp programmed limp mode - neither did the 350Z where oil temps could also hit 300 degrees on the HR engines.

:iagree: If you put a oil temp gauge and a programmed limp mode of 280* then hit the track most to all cars would go into limp mode like the 370.

so basically all cars overheat the oil, but nissan is the only one that bothered to protect the engine and put the limp mode there? that definitely doesn't reflect too good on the other car companies

Not after a couple laps...

A stock s2000 will chill below 240 or so after a day on the track.

Yeah... the Z gets hot really quick. The factory cooling just sucks for high performance applications.

what are your thoughts on how the mustang and 370 compare?

I'll send you a PM in a minute. Don't want to derail Pharmacists thread.

Nope, modern cars are designed to run hotter as oil has improved (especially with synthetic). Oil are at their most efficient point around 200-240F, this is why most cars have operating temperature in that range. Also what is causing the heat, RPMs!!!! I can see a 5-10 degree drop in temperature simply by shifting 700 RPM earlier than normal. Unless you are tracking the car or drive in heavy traffic or in hot weather, I honestly wouldn't worry about it as long as you have high quality oil in the motor and change it when you need it.

You don't hear about problems on other cars because they don't have a gauge.....

what about the lack of air flow? Car and driver tested the brakes on several cars. Our cars failed hard. They said it was because of a lack of air flow to the brakes. Does that have any correlation with the oil temps?

Airflow has nothing to do with it, there is nothing to cool the oil to begin with! Modern oil can tolerate much higher temperature compare to what it used to. As long as the engine is built with the tolerance in mind, it doesn't matter. Most cars cruise at 205-220 now compare to the days of 160-180F. Oil are more efficient in the 200 range and it is better for emission.

The brake issue is overblown. The car has 14" rotors and giant calipers, I am sure it isn't as bad as the 350 on 12.7" single piston caliper. It's the pads! Sure more airflow helps, but most street cars don't have ducts anyway.

Thats a first for you... :stirthepot:

Nissan changed the way it made bearings (dropped lead out of the formulation) and as a result saw a rise bearing failures at sustained temps over 300. 280 was the point they decided was a good place to limit to give themselves a bit of a buffer. I have no idea oif other car companies have done the same thing with their bearings.

Many vehicles see bearing failures at sustained 300+ temperatures. The oil thins out so much that it can no longer provide adequate film protection to vulnerable parts like bearings. A few weeks ago I was at a hot track event with a C5 Corvette that was continually pushing 300+, and sure enough a few sessions in he had bottom end engine failure.

Porsche gets around 400. They don't overheat. Then, I guess it's an I6. Same with BMW in 2003 with their 333bhp I6. No overheating there that I was aware of. BMW recognized that the i135 overheats when tracked and so they installed an oil-cooler. Nissan should do the same.

And...is this 335 stock? I am betting there might be a Dinan or other tune there, too. I mean, who tracks a STOCK 335i :stirthepot:

I know this has been beaten to death, but...

For those concerned about damage to their engines at the oil temps we routinely see in the 370Z (220-260), I submit a pic of the oil temp gauge in a Ferrari California. Note that it doesn't become a "red line" temp until 300 degrees.

I think the 370's limp mode activation at 280 is in response to how fast it heats up -- to get out in front of an engine damaging situation before it hits 300 and stays there for any amount of time.

In other words, the problem is not how hot the oil gets in normal driving, but rather how quickly it gets there and potentially beyond in track or aggressive driving. Thus, it should be easily managed in all but track situations.

Mine rarely climbs above 240 and has never been above 260 to my knowledge. That's in Houston heat and driving hard.

The SM oil certification requires a successful test of the oil brand at a 300 deg oil temperature sustained for a continuous 24 hour period under load. The bearings are then checked for wear. If there is no wear or wear is minimal, then the oil gets certified SM.