my 370z vs. my 2007 335 coupe...

klubbheads · 03-18-2009, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by klubbheads

As i said this discussion was stock VS stock. I am not sure why you keep bringing up modded vs modded discussion........

and again

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zpil0t6

True enough...but the civic isn't an all around car.....its desgned and built for one purpose.

The modded NA vs the Modded TC ......in the begining basica mods favor the FI vehicle.

But if you address the "balance issue" for instance.

I've a customer with an ALL motor 537 RWHP GTO....heavy car. Not only did he add hp, swapped out to drag springs, gears( nothing crazy) a few suspension tweaks.

We have personally seen him crush....CRUSH s/c GT500 Kr at the track. and ride home
with the car only to change pressure.

HP is a good thing....too little is no good...too much....and you don't have balance.

Zpil0t6 · 03-19-2009, 02:44 AM

Well Anyone is gonna tinker with there car...

And at altitude the 335i is modded. Stock for stock ( to me) would be both cars at sea level.

Whats the point of these forums. its to gain modification info...even if it matching headlamps...or an oil cooler

Fact is put the 370z and 335i at sea level and suddenly the Z got modded without craking the hood.

AI/AO its just and air pump That right pedal is not a gas pedal..its an air pedal

2bits · 03-19-2009, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zpil0t6

In regards to the UGLY stick......Hyundia didn't compromise on the spec r so handling will be no issue... even the 3.8 Genesis coupe 'felt better than a G37" if only a tad slower in the slolom.

And Ugly....well they did target the Nissan....and i for one think its a sharp looking vehicle.

Sounds to me that imatation is the best form of flattery. A black Gen with the wing
and its Brembo's 4 pot on EACH corner... is a excellent plateform

This car list for almost 7k less than a base /sport 370Z and will be lighter.
(spec r) Do you have any idea how tastefully modded this car can be at the same price.

Yeah, it's my opinion that the Genesis coupe is shapeless at best, and generally poor looking. It looks and performs (thus far) nothing like the Z, so I'm not sure which part of the Genesis is imitating the Z. Targeting maybe, but then again the Z is targeting the Cayman. Does the Z look or drive like a Cayman?

Hyundai didn't compromise... what does that mean to Hyundai or anyone for that matter? They have to compromise like any other manufacturer not making true race cars. The question isn't whether they compromised, but rather how much did they have to compromise to keep costs at 22k. There's a whole lot of slop that can't be compensated by a modest weight advantage. Felt better than a G37... so the Gen "felt" better than a luxury car, and lost to it in the slalom anyway. That contradicts your point.

All the reviews are going to look something like this: "The Z is clearly the better car, but for the price the Genesis coupe is a respectable first effort."

2bits · 03-19-2009, 02:55 AM

One more thing, if the Genesis coupe gets 7k in mods, then a Yaris gets 18k. Or a craigslist used riding lawn mower gets 29k. Kinda pointless.

ianthegreat · 03-20-2009, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zpil0t6

depends.....adding boost..you need to add fuel...the 335 may need injectors and a walbro and a piggy back fuel management system...stock turbo' efficiency may only be 5psi more... so turbo's may neeed to wbe swapped out.

But a turbo done right....is a deadly combo.

Not entirely.

A tune only 335 will push 350+ hp w/o any addons.

Two of the more popular tunes available.
JB3 - roughly $500
Vishnu - roughly $900

edit: To answer your question about PSI.. the latest tunes are pushing about 13-16psi. Stock is 8 psi. There are beta maps running as high as 18, 19, and 20 testing safety measures.

ianthegreat · 03-20-2009, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by john370z

The "sport" modes om both automatics are very different. I think I might not be using the one on the Z right. On the BMW if you move the shifter to the right "manual" mode. I goes into a sport mode where it shifts faster, holds gears longer, and downshifts when decellerating. The Z does none of that. Can anyone help?

I am not aware of a sport mode on the 335i. Are you talking about the M3?

klubbheads · 03-20-2009, 05:06 PM

^he is talkiing about the autmatic tranny.

Zpil0t6 · 03-20-2009, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2bits

Yeah, it's my opinion that the Genesis coupe is shapeless at best, and generally poor looking. It looks and performs (thus far) nothing like the Z, so I'm not sure which part of the Genesis is imitating the Z. Targeting maybe, but then again the Z is targeting the Cayman. Does the Z look or drive like a Cayman?

Hyundai didn't compromise... what does that mean to Hyundai or anyone for that matter? They have to compromise like any other manufacturer not making true race cars. The question isn't whether they compromised, but rather how much did they have to compromise to keep costs at 22k. There's a whole lot of slop that can't be compensated by a modest weight advantage. Felt better than a G37... so the Gen "felt" better than a luxury car, and lost to it in the slalom anyway. That contradicts your point.

All the reviews are going to look something like this: "The Z is clearly the better car, but for the price the Genesis coupe is a respectable first effort."

we are talking a hyuindai 2.0t vs a 3.7 i love tinkinry and with 7k in mod it gt pontetial...loos good and for the same price wll kill nissan..the undrog nissn
case clsewont yo be enbarrade

the modded srt4 killid the a turbo cocky 350 z he was emarrassed

and hhe spent the same wene we talked.

afternarted for the genesis 2.0t s in full gear and it looks sharp regardlless of what you say

klubbheads · 03-20-2009, 05:55 PM

for some reason i smell a troll....... Is it just me?

john370z · 03-20-2009, 08:43 PM

Hi all again. I have raced my wife over 20 times. She in the 335 and me in the z. I can even beat her off the line but at this altitude she is dominant. I would guess at 60 mph she has almost 2 car lengths and the gap isn't widening as fast but it is widening. The torque on the 335 is amazing. I have installed K&N drop in filters but nothing else. Her car has the same. After driving the z almost 2000 miles I have some more observations.

As far as the engine, the 335 is much quieter and seemingly in better tune. I prefer a peaky engine and the 335 is not that. In fact is has more pull at lower rpm than at higher. I prefer the z tranny (7 sp auto) to the 335 6sp auto. I like the relationship the z has between the two. The 335 has so much torque that is does not have to downshift to accelerate well where the z does.

I like the brake feel better by a little on the z. The 335 are a bit grabby and are difficult to modulate.

The suspension is softer on the 335. I prefer the z's suspension tune over the 335. Although on a long road trip they both will get old...the z will get old faster.

I have come to like the z stereo. It had the presence of good bass, great treble, but lacks mid-range. I have chosen to slightly fade the stereo towards the back by two ticks to add a little more rear sound fill. Center balance leaves the rear speakers silent. The 335 has a better stereo, but they charge for it. I think the stereo alone is a $1350 add on for this year 335 model. Was in a premium package when I bought it.

Looks. Even my wife loves the z more. The wheels make it. The 335 wheels are set in and don't give off an aura of performance. Whe ncomparing the two in looks....my wife who has won 20 out of 20 races laughs at me saying "all show and no go". I grind my teeth, but remind myself that it is my duty to keep her happy...even if I have to loose to her all the time.

Loving the discussion!

serge · 03-26-2009, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by john370z

Hi all again. I have raced my wife over 20 times. She in the 335 and me in the z. I can even beat her off the line but at this altitude she is dominant. I would guess at 60 mph she has almost 2 car lengths and the gap isn't widening as fast but it is widening. The torque on the 335 is amazing. I have installed K&N drop in filters but nothing else. Her car has the same. After driving the z almost 2000 miles I have some more observations.

As far as the engine, the 335 is much quieter and seemingly in better tune. I prefer a peaky engine and the 335 is not that. In fact is has more pull at lower rpm than at higher. I prefer the z tranny (7 sp auto) to the 335 6sp auto. I like the relationship the z has between the two. The 335 has so much torque that is does not have to downshift to accelerate well where the z does.

I like the brake feel better by a little on the z. The 335 are a bit grabby and are difficult to modulate.

The suspension is softer on the 335. I prefer the z's suspension tune over the 335. Although on a long road trip they both will get old...the z will get old faster.

I have come to like the z stereo. It had the presence of good bass, great treble, but lacks mid-range. I have chosen to slightly fade the stereo towards the back by two ticks to add a little more rear sound fill. Center balance leaves the rear speakers silent. The 335 has a better stereo, but they charge for it. I think the stereo alone is a $1350 add on for this year 335 model. Was in a premium package when I bought it.

Looks. Even my wife loves the z more. The wheels make it. The 335 wheels are set in and don't give off an aura of performance. Whe ncomparing the two in looks....my wife who has won 20 out of 20 races laughs at me saying "all show and no go". I grind my teeth, but remind myself that it is my duty to keep her happy...even if I have to loose to her all the time.

Loving the discussion!

I lived in Colorado Springs (6,000 ft. altitude) and I'm pretty familiar with the negative effects of thin air on engines, specially NA ones. Someone stated on a previous post that at 5000 ft., a NA engine loses 3% power. Wrong. It's 3% every 1000 ft., equaling 15% power loss. As an example on how bad altitude is, my bolt-on Evo used to run 11.9 @ 115 mph at sea level, but was only able to manage a best 12.8 @ 108 at 5,500 ft (Denver), almost a full second and 7 mph slower.

The reason why your 335 is faster than your Z at 5,000 ft. is because the 335s ECU compensates for altitude with extra boost, around 2psi. My best friend has a modified 335 with Procede tune and he runs faster at altitude (Tucson, 3000ft.) than sea level. So, while your Z is losing about 15% of its power (285-290bhp "after taxes"), your 335 is basically keeping all its original power, which is believed to be around 320-330 bhp "tax free". There're plenty of posts on e92.com from owners with stock 335's "destroying" more powerful NA cars like the C6 Vette (LS2s), 911 CSs or SRT8s at >4000 ft. altitude. The 335s boost compensation feature does miracles on the 335 at high elevation.

Nevertheless, even though it may not be the faster car around the block, I'll be getting a 370Z as soon as I get back from my deployment

ianthegreat · 03-26-2009, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by serge

I lived in Colorado Springs (6,000 ft. altitude) and I'm pretty familiar with the negative effects of thin air on engines, specially NA ones. Someone stated on a previous post that at 5000 ft., a NA engine loses 3% power. Wrong. It's 3% every 1000 ft., equaling 15% power loss. As an example on how bad altitude is, my bolt-on Evo used to run 11.9 @ 115 mph at sea level, but was only able to manage a best 12.8 @ 108 at 5,500 ft (Denver), almost a full second and 7 mph slower.

The reason why your 335 is faster than your Z at 5,000 ft. is because the 335s ECU compensates for altitude with extra boost, around 2psi. My best friend has a modified 335 with Procede tune and he runs faster at altitude (Tucson, 3000ft.) than sea level. So, while your Z is losing about 15% of its power (285-290bhp "after taxes"), your 335 is basically keeping all its original power, which is believed to be around 320-330 bhp "tax free". There're plenty of posts on e92.com from owners with stock 335's "destroying" more powerful NA cars like the C6 Vette (LS2s), 911 CSs or SRT8s at >4000 ft. altitude. The 335s boost compensation feature does miracles on the 335 at high elevation.

Nevertheless, even though it may not be the faster car around the block, I'll be getting a 370Z as soon as I get back from my deployment

Are you sure his 335i is running faster at that 3,000ft? You are right, the ECU does adjust accordingly. The ECU is having to accomodate the altitude, but higher boost does not equal more power in this situation. For example, a FMIC actually drops the amount of boost required to produce the same amount of power.

On a side note, my buddy is coming into town with his 370z. We'll be heading out to the houston raceway park in baytown -- I'll try and post some vids.

ChrisSlicks · 03-27-2009, 06:33 PM

He wasn't saying that the 335 would get faster at altitude, merely that it would keep all of it's original power where all the NA cars had lost 15%.

serge · 03-28-2009, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianthegreat

Are you sure his 335i is running faster at that 3,000ft? You are right, the ECU does adjust accordingly. The ECU is having to accomodate the altitude, but higher boost does not equal more power in this situation. For example, a FMIC actually drops the amount of boost required to produce the same amount of power.

On a side note, my buddy is coming into town with his 370z. We'll be heading out to the houston raceway park in baytown -- I'll try and post some vids.

Yes, my friend run his 335 several times at SIR Tucson (3,100ft.) and then at San Antonio TX (400ft. aprox.) His best run in Tucson was 12.6 @ 111mph for 12.7 @ 109mph in SA.

Mods were exactly the same: Procede V2 and Intake. His runs were pretty consistent, he drives the automatic version.

C6Z06dude · 04-04-2009, 07:18 PM

^^^^ ugghh Ostias que ya te estan entrando las cagggggalerrrrasss de comprarte uno. Popompompom!! A que me compro yo uno y meto el chillido?

I haven't driven a new 370Z but from what I have seen opn TV, internet and car magazines I swear up and down that it is a wuick car. I personally owned a 07 335i steptronic and it was quick as hell considering its weight and its modest power claims. To me it seems like they are very closely match but ultimately I will give the 335i the advantage for being able to adjust boost for altitude while the 370Z will lose power.

The BMW would crank more boost when it senses altitude and that is what ultimately will make the BMW 335i to win a race at altitude(my opinion).

03-19-2009, 02:55 AM	#34 (permalink)
2bits Base Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Seattle Posts: 118 Drives: 09 370Z Blk Sp 7AT Rep Power: 16	One more thing, if the Genesis coupe gets 7k in mods, then a Yaris gets 18k. Or a craigslist used riding lawn mower gets 29k. Kinda pointless. Last edited by 2bits; 03-19-2009 at 02:59 AM.

04-04-2009, 07:18 PM	#45 (permalink)
C6Z06dude Base Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 17 Drives: 08 C6 Z06 Rep Power: 16	^^^^ ugghh Ostias que ya te estan entrando las cagggggalerrrrasss de comprarte uno. Popompompom!! A que me compro yo uno y meto el chillido? I haven't driven a new 370Z but from what I have seen opn TV, internet and car magazines I swear up and down that it is a wuick car. I personally owned a 07 335i steptronic and it was quick as hell considering its weight and its modest power claims. To me it seems like they are very closely match but ultimately I will give the 335i the advantage for being able to adjust boost for altitude while the 370Z will lose power. The BMW would crank more boost when it senses altitude and that is what ultimately will make the BMW 335i to win a race at altitude(my opinion). Last edited by C6Z06dude; 04-04-2009 at 07:31 PM.

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03-19-2009, 02:44 AM	#32 (permalink)
Zpil0t6 Base Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 52 Drives: 07 Zo6,06 GTO,05Busa Rep Power: 16	Well Anyone is gonna tinker with there car... And at altitude the 335i is modded. Stock for stock ( to me) would be both cars at sea level. Whats the point of these forums. its to gain modification info...even if it matching headlamps...or an oil cooler Fact is put the 370z and 335i at sea level and suddenly the Z got modded without craking the hood. AI/AO its just and air pump That right pedal is not a gas pedal..its an air pedal

03-20-2009, 05:06 PM	#37 (permalink)
klubbheads Base Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: North Hollywood, CA Posts: 221 Drives: Very slow Nismo 370 Rep Power: 16	^he is talkiing about the autmatic tranny.

03-20-2009, 05:55 PM	#39 (permalink)
klubbheads Base Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: North Hollywood, CA Posts: 221 Drives: Very slow Nismo 370 Rep Power: 16	for some reason i smell a troll....... Is it just me?

03-20-2009, 08:43 PM	#40 (permalink)
john370z Base Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: new mexico Posts: 141 Drives: 2007 335i coupe Rep Power: 283	Hi all again. I have raced my wife over 20 times. She in the 335 and me in the z. I can even beat her off the line but at this altitude she is dominant. I would guess at 60 mph she has almost 2 car lengths and the gap isn't widening as fast but it is widening. The torque on the 335 is amazing. I have installed K&N drop in filters but nothing else. Her car has the same. After driving the z almost 2000 miles I have some more observations. As far as the engine, the 335 is much quieter and seemingly in better tune. I prefer a peaky engine and the 335 is not that. In fact is has more pull at lower rpm than at higher. I prefer the z tranny (7 sp auto) to the 335 6sp auto. I like the relationship the z has between the two. The 335 has so much torque that is does not have to downshift to accelerate well where the z does. I like the brake feel better by a little on the z. The 335 are a bit grabby and are difficult to modulate. The suspension is softer on the 335. I prefer the z's suspension tune over the 335. Although on a long road trip they both will get old...the z will get old faster. I have come to like the z stereo. It had the presence of good bass, great treble, but lacks mid-range. I have chosen to slightly fade the stereo towards the back by two ticks to add a little more rear sound fill. Center balance leaves the rear speakers silent. The 335 has a better stereo, but they charge for it. I think the stereo alone is a $1350 add on for this year 335 model. Was in a premium package when I bought it. Looks. Even my wife loves the z more. The wheels make it. The 335 wheels are set in and don't give off an aura of performance. Whe ncomparing the two in looks....my wife who has won 20 out of 20 races laughs at me saying "all show and no go". I grind my teeth, but remind myself that it is my duty to keep her happy...even if I have to loose to her all the time. Loving the discussion!

03-27-2009, 06:33 PM	#43 (permalink)
ChrisSlicks A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: North East Posts: 6,203 Drives: 09 370Z Sport M6 Rep Power: 653	He wasn't saying that the 335 would get faster at altitude, merely that it would keep all of it's original power where all the NA cars had lost 15%.