It's The People - ZCON 2010

Robert_Nash

Another member of our club is gathering comments from myself and others and is going to pass them along as i know a couple of other clubs/groups were planning to do.

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Robert
-My Basset Hound Is Smarter Than Your Honor Student and Barack Obama -

westpak

I just saw the Middle Tennessee club is based in Nashville! I got the impression there was no club there which is why the ZCCA went at it on their own, which they usually do not do.

I did see the club just rejoined the ZCCA this year so maybe that is why there was also no interest or could not really hold a ZCCA convention without being a ZCCA club

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Robert_Nash

I don't believe we re-joined; we joined but it had nothing to do with us not hosting the annual convention.

ZCCA asked Middle Tennessee Z Club (MTZC) to run the 2010 Convention after it had already decided that the 23rd annual international convention celebrating the 40th Anniversary of the Z would be held in Nashville (a departure from the normal chain of events for how the convention winds up in a particular city). In other words, they decided where and then hopped we would take on the responsibility for hosting it.

The problem was that MTZC is a completely member run club; there are no elected officers. We have hosted 8 ZAttacks in our history (we were founded in 1999) - most people who have attended will tell you that that ZAttack is a quality event but the bottom line is that putting on that (essentially two day) event (around 80 cars for the show) is a huge effort for our small group and we generally have just enough money left over after ZAttack to be seed money for the next year.

Bottom line is, MTZC didn't have the manpower nor the finances to even begin to host an annual convention; much less one nearly 10 times larger than our own ZAttack. Our decision was communicated to ZCCA early last fall (about the end of August I believe).

Personally, I was disappointed that our club had to turn down the request to host...I wish our club was big enough and had the finances to have hosted the 23rd...we didn't; it's as simple as that.

As I've said and will keep saying, ZCCA put on a great event and deserve the credit for doing so but even a "perfect" event can be improved upon and I hope the above comments about "what went wrong" will be taken to heart and acted on.

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Robert
-My Basset Hound Is Smarter Than Your Honor Student and Barack Obama -

westpak

that is great you guys joined, the stronger the ZCCA is the stronger we as clubs can be as well.

With the issues that came up, I hope they can be improved next year, the ZCCA guys did a great job specially when you consider they are volunteers and do it for free, the money made at this convention will be seed money for the next guys to start organizing and put deposits down.

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kevr6

I totally agree with what Robert had to say! I came in second in street mod 370Z class behind a tuner shops entry(I had more done to my car also). I've judged and helped organize VW/Audi shows for about 8 years and this was never allowed. Customers against shops and their resources just isn't fair!

I also waited through the long dinner and left empty handed. I then proceeded to drive home and fall asleep at the wheel multiple times due to how late it was.

The peoples choice awards were next to impossible to figure out unless you've seen these cars for multiple years and new in advance to some degree.

I waited near my car as long as I could and not one judge ever came by, but I did see them in line for autographs.

I heard a rumor that I may have won the 370Z peoples choice, but don't really know.

Overall I did enjoy meeting some great people and seeing some great cars. I really was not planning on doing it again formally based on this experience. But we'll see!

Also, was there info on judge criteria? I listened to them talking to each other and the reasoning for point deductions sounded completely foolish!

OK, enough ranting for me!!
Thanks

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westpak

here is link for judging http://www.zcca.org/downloads/ZCCA_J...anual_2009.pdf

This year the judging was kept electronically and contestants should be able to get results and see where they lost points

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300twinz

Normally People's Choice is one award for all cars in the judged and non-judged car show. There is no breakdown in People's Choice based on car model it is strictly a popularity contest.

I agree with many of your observations and I highly encourage you guys to email the convention team. Your feedback helps the next convention team as they plan the 2011 ZCON.

Z Car Club Association - 40th Anniversary of the Z.** July 28 - August 1, 2010 in Nashville, TN

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WWW.ZSPORT.ORG
1991 300ZX Twin Turbo

westpak

the people's choice is by model, it just doesn't take into account mods, it can be from stock to ultra modified

At least it was in 2007 where I won 350Z people's choice, I guess I was popular

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Robert_Nash

Actually, the only significant difference between a "People's Choice" show and a "judged" show is simply that people (and usually only those registered for the show, not just people attending) "vote" for the cars in the various categories rather than having a team of judges judging the cars by a set of rules.

I've been in many, many, "Z" "people's choice car shows" and every one has been broken down into the generations and usually at least a stock and modified in each generation; sometimes even between roadster and coupe. Further, the ZCON 2010 website specifically breaks down the generations for the people's choice show.


In most cases, there will be at least a first (and likely a second and perhaps a third) place for "peoples choice" in each generation - which ever car gets the most votes in that generation gets first place, second most votes, second, etc.

ZCON 2010 is one of the only People's Choice shows I've ever experienced where pure stock vehicles were placed in head to head competition with cars that some owners had spent tens of thousands of dollars in modifications on (at least two cars were rumored to have had more than $100K spend on them).

Even worse was the fact that the cars were not parked in generational groups; again, that is a rare occurrence.

I'm no expert on the international convention but my observation over the years tells me it's primarily a big, prestigious car show with some other activities thrown in. As such, the car show is the one major event of the convention where I would expect the least amount of breakdown in the system; after all, they've been doing this for 23 years now.

In this case, however, between trophies being a no-show and all the other issues, it's probably the single worst part of the 2010 convention experience.

Adding to (at least my) frustration is that early this week, ZCCA sent an email to some (but not all and I've not idea whey their email delivery was so haphazard) saying, among other things, that the people's choice results would be posted on both the ZCCA.org and the ZCON 2010 websites "by the end of the week". I'd say that to most people, the phrase "by the end of the week" would generally be a Friday (yesterday) and at least as of a few minutes ago, nothing has been posted...I at least hope they get them posted by Sunday (tomorrow).

I honestly cannot think of a single, substantial reason why all the ballots weren't counted immediately after the show and before the awards banquet - that we are still waiting for the results more than a week later is inexcusable.

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Robert
-My Basset Hound Is Smarter Than Your Honor Student and Barack Obama -

300twinz

Robert I stand corrected. When we hosted ZCON in 2009 we gave one award out for People's Choice which made things much more simple. I know that cars during this convention were being judged until very late in the afternoon and with the closing banquet being held the same day the pressure the convention team had on them was truly intense.

I have sent an email to Chris Karl with some of my observations and I encourage you guys to do the same. I hope that some of the suggestions we all have will help the Georgia ZCON Team put on a great event in 2011.

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WWW.ZSPORT.ORG
1991 300ZX Twin Turbo

Robert_Nash

I can understand your confusion, then, but I'm also a bit stunned to hear that ZCON 2009 had only one "People's Choice" winner...I can't even imagine driving hundreds of miles (aprox 970 to be more precise) to be in a People's Choice show where every car, daily driver and $100K garage queen had to compete head to head and there was only one winner. But yeah; I guess it makes things simple.

This is starting to confirm something I've had a gut feeling about for a while now; that being that the "People's Choice" part of the car show and the convention is something done more to to give those who don't get in the "real" car show something to do while the important event goes on.

In other words, that the only thing that really matters to ZCCA is the relatively small handful of cars that get to compete in the judged show and that everything else is ancillary to that one event.

Which would also explain why, now, nearly eight days later, we still don't have the results of the "People's Choice" show...one person working alone should have been able to tally the ballots in a day or two; two or three people should have been able to knock it out in an afternoon.

Someone from my club who worked more closely with Chris that I did is supposed to be taking my comments and those of others and making them known to Chris...whether that has any impact on future events...who knows. I'm a bit doubtful if only because ZCCA itself doesn't typically run a convention as they did this year.

It will also be interesting to see if anything near the attendance of this year's show is seen in succeeding years.

If I go to the 2011 convention (and I likely will), I'll probably skip the car shows all together; save the frustration as well as the $30 for the car show and skip the awards banquet and spend the free time driving!

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Robert
-My Basset Hound Is Smarter Than Your Honor Student and Barack Obama -

westpak

Not to argue or say your issues are not valid, so I will give my point of view and background in Z's.

I am a relative noob in the Z world when compared to others I have met, I have been in it for 8 years although an admirer for many more.

I currently own 3.5 Z's LOL, pre-ordered my 350Z in Feb 2002 and took delivery August 2002, after that I got a 1990 300ZX Twin Turbo and then a 1971 240Z and my son bought an 07 350Z last year.

Having the various models I have met a lot of people in the Z community and Zcon offers a great opportunity to meet them in person plus go with some of my members and spend time that I otherwise would not locally. So to me a big part of Zcon is social, hell I went without a Z this time.

Now for the show, first I agree that the results should have been announced and also agree that cars should have been placed by model to make it easier to judge.

I would still spend 30 bucks to enter the people's choice, 30 bucks wont break the bank and for me it is about having it in the event and being part of it not about winning it, after many years of entering shows and thinking my 350Z was the bomb there is always someone else that has done more than me, so I just take it in stride.

I would agree to have the models broken down to modified vs stock if there was no judged show, but there is so if people are adamant that their stock Z compete with other stock Z's then enter the judged show, from personal experience the issue usually arises with newer model owners, because lets face it was is to judge in a stock 370Z? how clean it is? Stock condition becomes more important as the car gets older, a stock original or restored 240Z can compete with heavily modified 240Z because a lot of work went into both whether it was restoring or keeping up an original 240Z or modifying it, where as a stock 370Z all it needed was a car wash so yes it is going to lose against a modified 370Z, probably will happen with 350Z's as well.

I enjoy the event from Wednesday to Sunday, and as I mentioned I did not have a Z with me this time, but got to see people that I have made friends with over the years like Mike on here from his 350Z days, Carl Beck from 240Z's, Mad Mike, and hell I got to meet and get an autograph from Mr Matsuo the designer of the 240Z.

So in my point of view if people are just going for the car show and to win a trophy they should probably concentrate on attending events that are strictly car shows and skip Zcon where it is a Convention not just a car show.

As 300twins said let them know your issues as it might help in future events.

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Robert_Nash

I have registered and gone to Z events when I didn't own a Z...it isn't about the $30.

It's about keeping promises.

Generational and stock/modified issues aside, if you are going to have a People's Choice car show and charge people for it then the people you charge have a right to expect to know the results...otherwise they should have simply let people park/display their cars on the lawn and charged them nothing for it and no voting needed.

If you are going to have a "Closing Banquet and Awards Ceremony" then you had darn well better have the results tallied and some awards to hand out at the award's banquet.

Were there some reasonable explanation for the results not being known by the time of the awards banquet this would be a much more minor issue but there simply isn't one...they say the ran out of time...I just don't buy it. Counting ballots simply isn't that difficult.

I know of at least six people from the Middle Tennessee Z Club and the Smoky Mountain Z Club who had volunteered to help with events; were at the car show...asked multiple times what they could to help and were never given an assignment...if they needed help counting ballots why didn't they ask people who had already volunteered? There were lot's of bodies there who could have pitched in and helped.

By the way, having a "new" Z doesn't mean all you do is run through a car wash...I have an '2010 Roadster...I spent at least 24 hours in prep time for the show as I do most shows I enter and I also drive it as often as I can (meaning it's not a garage queen)...yes it is easier to make a new car look good than one that's 40 years old but don't think for a moment that people who enter People's Choice shows aren't "adamant" or care any less about their vehicles or the competition.

I registered in February and had a registration number under 60...I could have easily been in the judged show but I didn't want to take up one of only 125 spots when there was a People's Choice show that I assumed would be taken seriously - had I known the People's Choice was going to be handled so poorly I would have done something different.

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Robert
-My Basset Hound Is Smarter Than Your Honor Student and Barack Obama -

NIZMOZ

IMHO, running a event like ZCON is a huge task and you do it for free while you are doing your own full time job itself. This is no easy task. Yes there should be complaints to let them know what they did wrong, but IMHO, if you have never run one, you can't really speak yourself. As we ran the 09 one, and it was HARD, and it took up a years time of our life. Would I do it again, NO. Never will. But was it something we were appreciated for, hell yeah!..

There will always been people unhappy every year. You won't fix that. My only issue is that this years convention should have looked at some of the stuff we did for ours and used it. But they didn't and they had massive problems.

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SOLD: 2007 NISMO 350Z #0044 Silver Alloy
New DD: 2010 Titan Pro4X CC

Robert_Nash

Yes; you can't please all the people all the time and every event has its minor issues but this isn't a matter of a few people being "unhappy" or minor problems.

I am not and I don't think anyone else here is discounting the effort it takes to put on a convention like ZCON - I've run several conventions (some "car" related and some not and some larger than ZCON and some not)...that's one of the reasons I knew our club could not be the host club for 2010.

The problems with registration and the awards are bad enough but at this point there is no excuse for not having counted the ballots for the People's Choice show and have the results published...no excuse whatsoever.

ZCCA is a non-profit business but it IS a business and when you are in business and you screw up the business does whatever has to be/can be done to make it right...that's what separates a great business from an mediocre one.

This is my advice to Chris and what I would do were I Executive Director of ZCCA...

1. COUNT THE DAMM BALLOTS and post the results TODAY - if that meant I had to take a vacation day or two from my job or hire people to come in and count that's what I'd do.

2. Refund the People's Choice car show registration fee of everyone registered for the show - it's a minor gesture that could go a long way.

3. I would include the refund in a formal, personalized, hand-signed letter of apology for screwing up the show, and

4. in the letter, offer a HUGE discount off of next year's registration in some slim hope that the people who got screwed will come to another event.

I would suggest (and this is just my opinion) that in terms of size and prestige, the annual international conventions were becoming almost irrelevant in the larger Z community - this year was a huge departure from that slide into irrelevancy. Because of the participation this year, ZCCA had a tremendous opportunity to reverse that trend and build upon it but sadly, the major screw-ups in Nashville may have ruined that opportunity and certainly, the continuation of the People's Choice car show screw up (now almost nine (9) days post event with no results) is only making it worse.

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Robert
-My Basset Hound Is Smarter Than Your Honor Student and Barack Obama -