It's The People - ZCON 2010

westpak · 08-09-2010, 02:59 PM

You are right Zcon was not 2 times bigger than Zdayz only 1.6 times, my bad just almost 300 people more

I would not call Zdays a 3 day event either by your logic, the first day is just the dinner, the airstrip event is not one attended by the masses and organized by Forged. And not much else to coordinate either, no autox, no real track event, not dinner in nearby downtown, and just vendors throw beer parties, the rest is just unleashing people on public roads.

I also do like the fact that the Z convention has stayed true to a Z event not like Zdayz which is really a Z/G event

I guess we can agree to disagree, I had a hell of a time and will go next year again even if same issues came up.

Robert_Nash · 08-09-2010, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by westpak@HPLogic

You are right Zcon was not 2 times bigger than Zdayz only 1.6 times, my bad just almost 300 people more

I would not call Zdays a 3 day event either by your logic, the first day is just the dinner, the airstrip event is not one attended by the masses and organized by Forged. And not much else to coordinate either, no autox, no real track event, not dinner in nearby downtown, and just vendors throw beer parties, the rest is just unleashing people on public roads.

I also do like the fact that the Z convention has stayed true to a Z event not like Zdayz which is really a Z/G event

I guess we can agree to disagree, I had a hell of a time and will go next year again even if same issues came up.

Z/G event? I guess that's true of course but so what??? I didn't do an exact count but I was a judge at this year's ZDayZ car show and I think there were less than 10 G's there for the event (registered or otherwise) and somewhere in the neighborhood of 400+ cars total so the non-"Z" part of the event is not what I'd call significant. Also, maybe you didn't notice all the "non-Z" vehicles at ZCON this year as there were quite a few.

I actually didn't say anything about how many days ZDayZ runs

I mentioned the number of days for ZCON because I generally throw out the "arrival day" of any event I attend since nothing much happens except getting there (which is pretty much what happened at ZCON this year).

How many cars/people did Cleveland have in ''08...I heard some incredibly low numbers (like 40 cars for the car show)...how many did San Antonio have?

From what I know of recent convention history, this year was not "normal" in terms of recent attendance figures so throwing them around saying the convention is so much bigger than "ZdayZ" or so much bigger than some other event seems a bit foolish and at not very helpful.

As far as next year goes, I'll likely go but I doubt I'll register as I see little benefit in doing so...as the saying goes, fool me once, shame on you...fool me twice, shame on me!

NIZMOZ · 08-09-2010, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by westpak@HPLogic

Zdayz is not a fair comparison, a 3 day event cannot compare to a 5 day event with less than half the activities and half the attendees

Agreed. ZdaysZ only had like 1/4 of the attendee's ZCON 2010 had and way less events. It can't be compared as it's a much smaller event. Also the fact that ZCON moves around every where and logistics of location, people are always different every year play a huge factor into ZCON while ZDaysZ it doesn't.

NIZMOZ · 08-09-2010, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert_Nash

Just to clarify; the annual convention is not/was not a "Nissan sponsored event"; at least no more so than most of the sponsors.

Nissan was a sponsor and allowed the event to be held on the grounds and they provided other support (opening the fist floor, handing out free bottled water, etc) but like most any "Z" event, it only happens because of a lot of sponsors (in the case of ZCON 2010 that included Z1 Motorsports, Yokohama tire, and many others).

ZCCA is wholly the event organizer.

Actually Nissan had a HUGE PART in sponsoring this event with a huge fat check. They give ZCON a check every year for sponsorship and they are the largest sponsor every year to do this. This year they were the sponsor.

NIZMOZ · 08-09-2010, 08:20 PM

This year ZCON had close to 800 registered and paid.

We had around 300 last year in San Antonio. The car show itself, I can't remember the exact number off the top of my head, but it was around 75 cars I think only and the rest were peoples choice only. So probably 100~.

I most likely will not go to Georgia for the convention there as the guy personally didn't even have a good presentation and had no clue if they could get the stuff (as he just said if we can get it) so he has no idea. The hotel rooms are much smaller than this years so fitting 3 people would be max per room. Also, there isn't anything to do in that town. I rather wait for Phoenix. If I do go however, I will fly, and only go for the important days this time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert_Nash

Z/G event? I guess that's true of course but so what??? I didn't do an exact count but I was a judge at this year's ZDayZ car show and I think there were less than 10 G's there for the event (registered or otherwise) and somewhere in the neighborhood of 400+ cars total so the non-"Z" part of the event is not what I'd call significant. Also, maybe you didn't notice all the "non-Z" vehicles at ZCON this year as there were quite a few.

I actually didn't say anything about how many days ZDayZ runs

I mentioned the number of days for ZCON because I generally throw out the "arrival day" of any event I attend since nothing much happens except getting there (which is pretty much what happened at ZCON this year).

How many cars/people did Cleveland have in ''08...I heard some incredibly low numbers (like 40 cars for the car show)...how many did San Antonio have?

From what I know of recent convention history, this year was not "normal" in terms of recent attendance figures so throwing them around saying the convention is so much bigger than "ZdayZ" or so much bigger than some other event seems a bit foolish and at not very helpful.

As far as next year goes, I'll likely go but I doubt I'll register as I see little benefit in doing so...as the saying goes, fool me once, shame on you...fool me twice, shame on me!

Robert_Nash · 08-09-2010, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NIZMOZ

Actually Nissan had a HUGE PART in sponsoring this event with a huge fat check. They give ZCON a check every year for sponsorship and they are the largest sponsor every year to do this. This year they were the sponsor.

Look...I work for Nissan...I'm aware of NNA's level of involvement; it's significant but not nearly as much as you probably think and the "huge fat check" you refer to is small compared to the actual $$$ needs of the convention; especially this particular convention.

At the time my club had to make a final decision about taking on the responsibility of hosting ZCON 2010, NNA was not even able to commit to providing any funds for the 2010 convention due to the general lousy state of the economy and in particular, the industry.

DarkPath · 08-09-2010, 08:41 PM

ZDAYZ is not a convention. ZDAYZ is a gathering of Z enthusiasts doing what Z enthusiasts do... Drive their cars, Show their cars, and talk about their cars in an unparalleled setting, deep in what may arguably be the most beautiful mountain highways in the US. Yes their are a few organized Events thrown in... Car show, TSD, Group photos, and such... But a pole taken after last year's event, (which sometimes had two events happening simultaneously,) voted Down the number of events, in lieu of having more time inside Fontana, & More time relaxing, like one should when on vacation. Some describe Zdayz as a Drinking party with a Driving habit... and while I am sure some parties ran late into the evening - I don't think I saw one person "Under the weather" (except when I looked in the mirror)during the whole event. So what are we arguing here... Cause I can't figure it out. Are we arguing that ZdayZ was easier to put together cause it was smaller? Or are we complaining that money was spent on ZCON and it came up short. I think it must be the latter. Because every one paid their registration fees... and there was Sponser money too. There is no excuse with that kind of horsepower of cash to make excuses and not have important things like trophies ON HAND at the end of a car show. They KNEW the categories before people ever began showing up - they should have known the categories before an private money from attendees was ever accepted!

Robert_Nash · 08-09-2010, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NIZMOZ

Agreed. ZdaysZ only had like 1/4 of the attendee's ZCON 2010 had and way less events. It can't be compared as it's a much smaller event. Also the fact that ZCON moves around every where and logistics of location, people are always different every year play a huge factor into ZCON while ZDaysZ it doesn't.

ZCON 2010 had 722 registrants; they have not said how many cars but since many people came as couples it's reasonable to believe that there were in the neighborhood of 500-600 cars. ZdayZ had somewhere in the neighborhood of 400 cars this year; hardly 1/2 the attendance of ZCON...in any case, such comparisons are rather meaningless and not productive.

ZCON 2010, despite the noted problems was a great event. It's my hope that ZCCA/host clubs will be able to make some changes so that the same issues aren't experienced in future conventions.

Event results, including the People's Choice results have been posted on the ZCON 2010 website (and I would assume the ZCCA.org site as well).

Robert_Nash · 10-05-2010, 05:44 PM

This thread has been moved from its original location (which is fine). Also, from some discussion at Z1 Z Nationals it became apparent that some had still wanted a chance to respond/chime in on the discussion and weren't able to do so because I had closed the thread before they had a chance to post.

I'm not sure how long I'll keep the thread open but for now, the thread is re-opened and if anyone would like to add something they feel would be helpful; please feel free to do so.

kevr6 · 10-05-2010, 06:57 PM

I still haven't gotten my trophy from ZCON!

NIZMOZ · 10-12-2010, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert_Nash

Look...I work for Nissan...I'm aware of NNA's level of involvement; it's significant but not nearly as much as you probably think and the "huge fat check" you refer to is small compared to the actual $$$ needs of the convention; especially this particular convention.

At the time my club had to make a final decision about taking on the responsibility of hosting ZCON 2010, NNA was not even able to commit to providing any funds for the 2010 convention due to the general lousy state of the economy and in particular, the industry.

Robert, let me remind you myself and the President in San Antonio ran the convention in 2009. We know what it takes and know how much the checks were including for 2010. We didn't get Nissan's check for our convention till the first DAY of the convention. So we had to make due with what we had.

Robert_Nash · 10-12-2010, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NIZMOZ

Robert, let me remind you myself and the President in San Antonio ran the convention in 2009. We know what it takes and know how much the checks were including for 2010. We didn't get Nissan's check for our convention till the first DAY of the convention. So we had to make due with what we had.

I'm not sure what you point here is? I'm glad you were able to pull it off and I congratulate you for doing so but I think there is a difference between getting the funds, eventually and having no reason to think you would get any funds at all. I think it's great when Z clubs have the people and financial resources to host the annual convention; our club simply did not have those resources.

We had to make a decision based on what we had and what we knew; not what we hoped would happen - as I said earlier; our club had no commitment or any reassurance at all that we would receive any funds form NNA and without those funds (and without them well in advance of the convention) we could not have hosted the convention - for that reason, as well as others, we declined hosting it. To have done otherwise would have been irresponsible.

300twinz · 10-13-2010, 10:34 AM

^ Robert I think the days of counting on large checks for conventions may be over. The 2010 convention was definitely not the normal convention but I guess we will see next year in Georgia. My suggestion for future clubs wanting to host a convention is don't go into it thinking you are getting a large check from anyone. Plan accordingly and assume your registrations will have to cover all your expenses. Planning the 2009 convention that is what we did and tried to get back to basics and cut some things that we felt may not be a viable option. We also looked everywhere for a better price and called in for favors from friends and family. I can definitely understand why your club chose not host especially with no guaranteed backing from NNA.

I wish the best for the Savannah team and I hope they can pull off a great convention. I can tell you that running one of these things is not easy and issues will come up but it's how you handle the problems that will either have people come back to a ZCON or stay away from them. One thing I learned quickly though is you will NOT be able to please everyone but you still need to give it your best shot.

Regarding ZDAYZ I have never been so I cannot speak with any experience on their event but I would love to go. It seems like a really fun event and I have been told by plenty of my friends who have attended that it is a blast. ZCON and ZDAYZ seem like two different types of events but I am of the mindset that one can always learn and can improve their event by seeing what works and doesn't work at other shows.

300twinz · 10-13-2010, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkPath

There is no excuse with that kind of horsepower of cash to make excuses and not have important things like trophies ON HAND at the end of a car show. They KNEW the categories before people ever began showing up - they should have known the categories before an private money from attendees was ever accepted!

Bad idea to order trophies for every category since you will have some categories that are either not signed up for or only have 1 or 2 cars sign up so you get stuck with extra inventory which = wasted money.

I can tell you that during '09 we ordered trophies for only the categories which had cars pre-registered BUT we ordered them from a local shop. I put them on notice that we may need to order a few more before the end of the week since we did not know how many walk-up registrations we would have. We still came up a few trophies short (trophy shop ran out of inventory) at the end but we had those trophies mailed out inside of a week to the winners.

Robert_Nash · 10-13-2010, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 300twinz

Bad idea to order trophies for every category since you will have some categories that are either not signed up for or only have 1 or 2 cars sign up so you get stuck with extra inventory which = wasted money.

Yes, you run the risk of some wasted money but that's part of putting on an event where you have trophies whether you are talking about a car show or anything else. But bottom line is, don't advertise a category and awards and then not have them.

But, that wasn't the situation at ZCON. We aren't talking about a few trophies and/or low entries in a particular category they didn't want to order for; someone just plain screwed up. I don't know the exact number of place winners who didn't get their award that night but I'd bet a substantial amount of $$ that it was at least close to half and maybe even more who didn't get their award.

I think everyone understands that mistakes happen and we are all human...yeah...a bunch of trophies apparently didn't get ordered; that's unfortunate but it's not the end of the world. The adult thing to do at that point is to apologize and do whatever the hell you have to do to make it right (i.e. get the missing trophies ordered and delivered).

But here we are, 74 days (10 and half weeks/2 and a half months) post event and there are STILL folks who haven't received their trophies.

I honestly can't understand that kind of irresponsibility.

08-09-2010, 02:59 PM	#31 (permalink)
westpak Enthusiast Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Lake Worth, FL Posts: 405 Drives: 2003 350Z DB Rep Power: 16	You are right Zcon was not 2 times bigger than Zdayz only 1.6 times, my bad just almost 300 people more I would not call Zdays a 3 day event either by your logic, the first day is just the dinner, the airstrip event is not one attended by the masses and organized by Forged. And not much else to coordinate either, no autox, no real track event, not dinner in nearby downtown, and just vendors throw beer parties, the rest is just unleashing people on public roads. I also do like the fact that the Z convention has stayed true to a Z event not like Zdayz which is really a Z/G event I guess we can agree to disagree, I had a hell of a time and will go next year again even if same issues came up. __________________ 03 350Z 587 RWHP - May 2009 Dsport Feature

08-09-2010, 08:41 PM	#37 (permalink)
DarkPath Enthusiast Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Hampton Roads VA Posts: 318 Drives: 40th Anniversary M6 Rep Power: 15	ZDAYZ is not a convention. ZDAYZ is a gathering of Z enthusiasts doing what Z enthusiasts do... Drive their cars, Show their cars, and talk about their cars in an unparalleled setting, deep in what may arguably be the most beautiful mountain highways in the US. Yes their are a few organized Events thrown in... Car show, TSD, Group photos, and such... But a pole taken after last year's event, (which sometimes had two events happening simultaneously,) voted Down the number of events, in lieu of having more time inside Fontana, & More time relaxing, like one should when on vacation. Some describe Zdayz as a Drinking party with a Driving habit... and while I am sure some parties ran late into the evening - I don't think I saw one person "Under the weather" (except when I looked in the mirror)during the whole event. So what are we arguing here... Cause I can't figure it out. Are we arguing that ZdayZ was easier to put together cause it was smaller? Or are we complaining that money was spent on ZCON and it came up short. I think it must be the latter. Because every one paid their registration fees... and there was Sponser money too. There is no excuse with that kind of horsepower of cash to make excuses and not have important things like trophies ON HAND at the end of a car show. They KNEW the categories before people ever began showing up - they should have known the categories before an private money from attendees was ever accepted! __________________ C&C WMBG www.carsandcoffeewilliamsburg.com [B]Looking for build badges? darkpath.ent.llc@gmail.com

10-05-2010, 05:44 PM	#39 (permalink)
Robert_Nash Track Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Middle TN/Savannah GA Posts: 762 Drives: '14 Q60IPL/'14Armada Rep Power: 17	This thread has been moved from its original location (which is fine). Also, from some discussion at Z1 Z Nationals it became apparent that some had still wanted a chance to respond/chime in on the discussion and weren't able to do so because I had closed the thread before they had a chance to post. I'm not sure how long I'll keep the thread open but for now, the thread is re-opened and if anyone would like to add something they feel would be helpful; please feel free to do so. __________________ Robert -My Basset Hound Is Smarter Than Your Honor Student and Barack Obama - Last edited by Robert_Nash; 10-06-2010 at 10:46 AM.

10-05-2010, 06:57 PM	#40 (permalink)
kevr6 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: N.W. Atlanta Posts: 1,515 Drives: '09 Graphite 370Z 6M Rep Power: 666	I still haven't gotten my trophy from ZCON! __________________ *Beware...* Daily Sliding In My ZLED!

10-13-2010, 10:34 AM	#43 (permalink)
300twinz Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: SATX Posts: 322 Drives: 300ZX Twin Turbo Rep Power: 16	^ Robert I think the days of counting on large checks for conventions may be over. The 2010 convention was definitely not the normal convention but I guess we will see next year in Georgia. My suggestion for future clubs wanting to host a convention is don't go into it thinking you are getting a large check from anyone. Plan accordingly and assume your registrations will have to cover all your expenses. Planning the 2009 convention that is what we did and tried to get back to basics and cut some things that we felt may not be a viable option. We also looked everywhere for a better price and called in for favors from friends and family. I can definitely understand why your club chose not host especially with no guaranteed backing from NNA. I wish the best for the Savannah team and I hope they can pull off a great convention. I can tell you that running one of these things is not easy and issues will come up but it's how you handle the problems that will either have people come back to a ZCON or stay away from them. One thing I learned quickly though is you will NOT be able to please everyone but you still need to give it your best shot. Regarding ZDAYZ I have never been so I cannot speak with any experience on their event but I would love to go. It seems like a really fun event and I have been told by plenty of my friends who have attended that it is a blast. ZCON and ZDAYZ seem like two different types of events but I am of the mindset that one can always learn and can improve their event by seeing what works and doesn't work at other shows. __________________ WWW.ZSPORT.ORG 1991 300ZX Twin Turbo

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