Dealer Scam? Need advise.

shadoquad · 07-15-2010, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaggeron

Actually, there is no such burden on a consumer to keep receipts for purchases. Taking delivery of an item where there is no further documentation that additional moneys are owed -- like a promissory note -- is prima facia evidence that the item was paid for in full.

The dealer may be able to mitagate that prima facia evidence by showing circumstances that make it likely the money wasn't paid -- F&I guy specifically remembers he didn't get the money, the books for that night show $1000 short, evidence of a timely phone call or correspondence by the F&I guy or general manager to the effect that "sorry to bother you, but in the rush we forgot to get your deposit".

But, we don't know if the OP's dealer has any of that evidence. According the the OP he got a cold call from the collection department at the dealership months later saying he owed the money.

hmm. ok. But paying with most other methods would have made this more cut and dried. A check or credit card involves a third party who can verify or refute the claim from their records. Makes it a lot easier to prove one way or another.

Modshack · 07-15-2010, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FuszNissan

It happens all the time.

You make a deal with let's say 1000 down. All the numbers get punched into the computer, the loan is processed, the paper work is printed you sign the loan contract with the the dealer (which says 1000 deposit made on the contract) customer is excited, you go over the car, customer leaves. F&I manager forgot to collect the 1000 deposit. No receipt was made for deposit.(so the 1000 was not collected) Now the dealer is short the 1000, but the bank contract shows it was apart of the deal. It happens all the time!

I can see this happening (BTDT as a Sales Manager for a dealership)....Especially because of the "rushed" transaction/closing described by the OP...

chrisdc · 07-15-2010, 01:58 PM

My last F&I Manager forgot to collect a down payment once. I stress "once" because he was let go within the next couple of days.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FuszNissan

It happens all the time.

You make a deal with let's say 1000 down. All the numbers get punched into the computer, the loan is processed, the paper work is printed you sign the loan contract with the the dealer (which says 1000 deposit made on the contract) customer is excited, you go over the car, customer leaves. F&I manager forgot to collect the 1000 deposit. No receipt was made for deposit.(so the 1000 was not collected) Now the dealer is short the 1000, but the bank contract shows it was apart of the deal. It happens all the time!

zZSoCalZz · 07-15-2010, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FuszNissan

It happens all the time.

You make a deal with let's say 1000 down. All the numbers get punched into the computer, the loan is processed, the paper work is printed you sign the loan contract with the the dealer (which says 1000 deposit made on the contract) customer is excited, you go over the car, customer leaves. F&I manager forgot to collect the 1000 deposit. No receipt was made for deposit.(so the 1000 was not collected) Now the dealer is short the 1000, but the bank contract shows it was apart of the deal. It happens all the time!

I counted the cash twice before I handed it over and the gentleman that worked my contract counted it twice. I mean he showed me where in the contract that stated $1000.00 was paid. I guess it was dumb of me to think that this was a receipt/contract. But yeah I would not go out of my way to accuse a business. I once used to own a business and I know word of mouth is #1 for advertising.

I'm sure it happens but what makes you think that the dealer asked to bring in cash knowingly... I didn't mention this in the OP but now I think about it I think they pulled a fast one on me.

FuszNissan · 07-15-2010, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zZSoCalZz

I counted the cash twice before I handed it over and the gentleman that worked my contract counted it twice. I mean he showed me where in the contract that stated $1000.00 was paid. I guess it was dumb of me to think that this was a receipt/contract. But yeah I would not go out of my way to accuse a business. I once used to own a business and I know word of mouth is #1 for advertising.

I'm sure it happens but what makes you think that the dealer asked to bring in cash knowingly... I didn't mention this in the OP but now I think about it I think they pulled a fast one on me.

Man, I would fight that one then. Sounds like you have at least 2 people that are involved, and I bet one doesn't know the other took the money.

It's not dumb of you( you trusted the company to handle the transaction properly), I didn't know all the facts, just stating the different scenarios.

zZSoCalZz · 07-15-2010, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudafunk

It will cost you more than $1000 to recover your $1000.. the dealership knows this too.
You must be young, they must've seen you're inexperienced and excited, you must've gone alone while signing... they're putting you in pressure. My opinion.

I'm 30... Is that young still?

I guess I'm inexperienced with dealerships and law. and yes I went alone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by elmz

+1 This is good advice. If you end up going to court keep this in mind, along with your contract (which they wrote up) showing the $1000 cash as part of the agreement. Also express why 3 months later this is all of sudden turning up? This will show how un-organized they are and how it is very possible they screwed up the paperworks and anything else for that matter. Good luck man!

Thanks for the advise.
I checked 4 times what it stated on the contract and kept it in a safe place.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FuszNissan

Man, I would fight that one then. Sounds like you have at least 2 people that are involved, and I bet one doesn't know the other took the money.

It's not dumb of you( you trusted the company to handle the transaction properly), I didn't know all the facts, just stating the different scenarios.

I know you were throwing different scenarios out there. But I do agree more than one person was involved in this as well.

FuszNissan · 07-15-2010, 01:38 PM

So.... are you going off the contract that the 1000 was paid or that you recall handing the guy a 1000.00 cash and you never got a receipt.

Zaggeron · 07-15-2010, 01:38 PM

"F&I manager forget to collect the deposit" and "happens all the time" seem like two phrases that shouldn't appear together. But I guess "all the time" is relative -- Do you mean "once a week", "once a month"?? Seems sloppy to me.

shadoquad · 07-15-2010, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaggeron

"F&I manager forget to collect the deposit" and "happens all the time" seem like two phrases that shouldn't appear together. But I guess "all the time" is relative -- Do you mean "once a week", "once a month"?? Seems sloppy to me.

Both seller and consumer should be paying attention during these deals. It's an exciting, emotional event for both, so things can be easily overlooked. True, it's more exciting for the consumer, but dealerships are in business to make money, so it can be a lot for them.

I don't know if the OP was boned, or if no money exchanged hands. I wasn't there. I'm willing to give him benefit of the doubt, but even so his may be a hard case to prove.

FuszNissan · 07-15-2010, 01:45 PM

Maybe I should choose my words better. It's not a very common thing, but yes over 20 years of this, I have seen it many times.

It does happen here and there, now I don't know if he paid or not, but I have seen an F&I manager forget to collect a deposit. Which we call the customer and they recall and pay.

Just becuase it's noted on the bank contract doesn't mean it has been collected.

I agree it will be up to the dealer to prove it, but there is no receipt of transaction. Know will a contract count, I don't know I am not a lawyer or Judge.

Does the op have proof he paid, nope. So which side do you choose.

I am not trying to stir it up, I am just saying I have seen it both ways.

KillerBee370 · 07-15-2010, 01:53 PM

I think this is a simple situation that a peanut butter and jelly sandwich should clear up nicely.

Now that I think about it, when I put 10,000 cash down on mine, I can't for the life of me remember if I got a reciept at the time. That would suuuuck if they called foul on that amount..lol!

Matt · 07-15-2010, 02:32 PM

When I bought my car, I put 7k (or 9k) down. I had a large amount of it in cash, and the rest I put on my debit card. The told me that I had 14 days to give the whole amount, if I needed. The contract shows the down payment, the receipt shows the proof it's paid.

I got 2 receipts, one for the cash...one for the debit.

I hope it doesn't end up being an expensive lesson, but you really should always get a receipt. It become even more important when it's cash, as there is no transaction recorded anywhere else.

FuszNissan · 07-15-2010, 02:02 PM

^^You are right. We have no idea really what is going on.

It will really come down to how they handle there policies and procedures on taking deposits.

If I have receipts for 99.99999% of my transactions, because that is our policy and we are missing one deposit and don't have a receipt for said deposit, and neither does the customer, who do you think will win???

I honestly wonder how this is going to play out.

FuszNissan · 07-15-2010, 02:05 PM

It's going to come down to the dealers practice on handling deposits in my mind. If the dealer had receipts for only half their deposits his done in court.

Zaggeron · 07-15-2010, 02:24 PM

I'm giving the OP the benefit of the doubt. The dealer sounds fishy in this case. Someone just bought a 30k automobile, you forgot to get his deposit. And furthermore you forget that you forgot his deposit (or just couldn't be bothered to call him up) and it is assigned to a credit collector for the dealership months later...

07-15-2010, 01:38 PM	#7 (permalink)
FuszNissan A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2009 Location: St. Louis Posts: 14,275 Drives: Pure Sex Rep Power: 542	So.... are you going off the contract that the 1000 was paid or that you recall handing the guy a 1000.00 cash and you never got a receipt. __________________ Mods: Too Many to list! LouFuszNissan ZDAYZ 2012

07-15-2010, 01:38 PM	#8 (permalink)
Zaggeron A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,951 Drives: '10 370ZR '13 BRZ Rep Power: 19	"F&I manager forget to collect the deposit" and "happens all the time" seem like two phrases that shouldn't appear together. But I guess "all the time" is relative -- Do you mean "once a week", "once a month"?? Seems sloppy to me. __________________ 2010 Platinum Graphite 370z Roadster:Touring/Sport 2013 Subaru BRZ Limited

07-15-2010, 01:45 PM	#10 (permalink)
FuszNissan A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2009 Location: St. Louis Posts: 14,275 Drives: Pure Sex Rep Power: 542	Maybe I should choose my words better. It's not a very common thing, but yes over 20 years of this, I have seen it many times. It does happen here and there, now I don't know if he paid or not, but I have seen an F&I manager forget to collect a deposit. Which we call the customer and they recall and pay. Just becuase it's noted on the bank contract doesn't mean it has been collected. I agree it will be up to the dealer to prove it, but there is no receipt of transaction. Know will a contract count, I don't know I am not a lawyer or Judge. Does the op have proof he paid, nope. So which side do you choose. I am not trying to stir it up, I am just saying I have seen it both ways. __________________ Mods: Too Many to list! LouFuszNissan ZDAYZ 2012 Last edited by FuszNissan; 07-15-2010 at 01:49 PM.

07-15-2010, 02:32 PM	#12 (permalink)
Matt A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Augusta, GA Age: 42 Posts: 1,680 Drives: 2010 Avalanche LT Rep Power: 19	When I bought my car, I put 7k (or 9k) down. I had a large amount of it in cash, and the rest I put on my debit card. The told me that I had 14 days to give the whole amount, if I needed. The contract shows the down payment, the receipt shows the proof it's paid. I got 2 receipts, one for the cash...one for the debit. I hope it doesn't end up being an expensive lesson, but you really should always get a receipt. It become even more important when it's cash, as there is no transaction recorded anywhere else. __________________ "Any man who can drive a 370z while kissing a pretty girl is simply not giving the Z the attention it deserves." Albert Einstein....modified.

07-15-2010, 02:02 PM	#13 (permalink)
FuszNissan A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2009 Location: St. Louis Posts: 14,275 Drives: Pure Sex Rep Power: 542	^^You are right. We have no idea really what is going on. It will really come down to how they handle there policies and procedures on taking deposits. If I have receipts for 99.99999% of my transactions, because that is our policy and we are missing one deposit and don't have a receipt for said deposit, and neither does the customer, who do you think will win??? I honestly wonder how this is going to play out. __________________ Mods: Too Many to list! LouFuszNissan ZDAYZ 2012

07-15-2010, 01:53 PM	#11 (permalink)
KillerBee370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: So Cal baby! Age: 52 Posts: 5,964 Drives: with passion Rep Power: 322	I think this is a simple situation that a peanut butter and jelly sandwich should clear up nicely. Now that I think about it, when I put 10,000 cash down on mine, I can't for the life of me remember if I got a reciept at the time. That would suuuuck if they called foul on that amount..lol!

07-15-2010, 02:05 PM	#14 (permalink)
FuszNissan A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2009 Location: St. Louis Posts: 14,275 Drives: Pure Sex Rep Power: 542	It's going to come down to the dealers practice on handling deposits in my mind. If the dealer had receipts for only half their deposits his done in court. __________________ Mods: Too Many to list! LouFuszNissan ZDAYZ 2012

07-15-2010, 02:24 PM	#15 (permalink)
Zaggeron A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,951 Drives: '10 370ZR '13 BRZ Rep Power: 19	I'm giving the OP the benefit of the doubt. The dealer sounds fishy in this case. Someone just bought a 30k automobile, you forgot to get his deposit. And furthermore you forget that you forgot his deposit (or just couldn't be bothered to call him up) and it is assigned to a credit collector for the dealership months later... __________________ 2010 Platinum Graphite 370z Roadster:Touring/Sport 2013 Subaru BRZ Limited

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