2009 Nissan 370Z Long-Term Test - Edmunds.com

AK370Z · 02-21-2009, 03:57 AM

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It's Inside Line's party for the all-new 2009 Nissan 370Z and Randy Rodriguez is walking around like he owns the place. It's not only because he owns one of the baddest Nissan 240Zs at this event. It's not even because his 240Z — one in a long line, because he's owned a Nissan Z-car as long as he's had a driver license — is painted in a color previously seen only on a Nissan showcar. No, Randy Rodriguez is walking around like he owns the place because as the designer of the concept car that spawned the production 2009 Nissan 370Z, he might have saved the Z-car (not to mention sports cars as we know and like them) from irrelevancy.

The weight of the world is upon the modern automobile. With innumerable laws, regulations, standards and specifications to meet, it's no wonder that cars today are getting bigger, heavier, duller and blander. But not the 2009 Nissan 370Z. Compared to the 350Z it replaces, the new Z is shorter, wider, lighter and powered by a new 332-horsepower, 3.7-liter V6 with variable valve timing and lift that's more powerful, too. It's a serious car, not just a stylish one.

It all sounds (and looks) great on paper, but a 12-month long-term road test here at Inside Line will validate (or invalidate) what our bar-napkin calculations hypothesize.

What We Got
When we began our talks with Nissan for the acquisition of a 2009 370Z for a long-term road test, pricing and specifications hadn't been released. We wanted a base car with the Sport package and the Technology/Navigation package. Turns out that such a combination doesn't exist. We could choose the base model car with the Sport package and get cloth-upholstered seats and a vacant cubby-hole in the dash, or we could have the Touring model with heated, leather-upholstered seats, a Bose audio system and Bluetooth, which offers the Navigation package as a $1,850 option.

While we debated our preferences for interior trim, there was no debate over the Sport package. It's a $3,000 option that we had to have. The $3 grand goes toward a set of slick-looking, lightweight, forged-aluminum 19-inch Rays wheels wrapped in wide Bridgestone Potenza tires, plus big brakes (14-inch rotors in front; 13.8-inch rotors in the rear) with four-piston calipers. On the driveline side, the Sport package adds a viscous-type limited-slip rear differential, while cars with the six-speed manual transmission like this one also include Nissan's new SynchroRev Match.

SynchroRev Match is Nissan's innovative feature that makes a manual transmission easier to use for the average driver. When we got our hands on one, Engineering Editor Jason Kavanagh took us through a detailed overview on Straightline. "SynchroRev Match," he says, "is a feature that automatically 'blips' the throttle when the driver initiates a downshift in manual-transmission-equipped 370s. If you depress the clutch, lift off the throttle and move the gearchange lever to a lower gear, SynchroRev Match zips the engine up to precisely the right speed for that gear.

"The result? Perfectly smooth rev-matched downshifts every single time, and drivers that look like heroes." It's a clever idea that's so useful for everyone that we're surprised it hasn't appeared sooner.

Base or Touring, all 2009 Nissan 370Zs have the same engine, the 332-hp VQ37VHR, a DOHC 3.7-liter V6. Nissan's VVEL (variable valve event and lift) is similar to BMW's Valvetronic, one more strategy to control the volume of fuel that flows in and out of the combustion chambers and thus combines good power with good air emissions.

The new 3.7-liter V6 also produces 270 pound-feet of torque at 5,200 rpm, a number substantial enough that it helps get the Z-car out of the hole quickly enough to reach the quarter-mile in 13.4 seconds at 104.8 mph.

Even though we think more people will buy the Base model, the Technology package won us over just because we can't do without a navigation system. Those buyers interested in the Base car can still relate, while those looking for more information on the full kit won't be lost.

And so our new long-term 2009 Nissan 370Z wears a sticker price of $40,320.

Why We Got It
Like you have to ask?

With its wide, arched fender flares, low stance and menacing grimace, the 370Z is more pony car than pocket rocket. The new 2010 Ford Mustang is on the horizon and the new 2010 Chevrolet Camaro isn't far behind, and the Z-car will put their performance into perspective. Affordable sports cars have been around forever, but they've never been this good. They've never been this fast. And they've certainly never had this level of refinement.

The 370Z represents one of the finest examples of bang-for-your-buck you can find at any car dealership (even if we did load up ours with some non-performance goodies), and we'll see if "good for the price" makes it as compelling both against pony cars at the low end of the price spectrum and against pure sports cars like the Porsche Cayman at the high end.

Is It Refined Enough?
For 12 months and 20,000 miles, we'll be blogging about the daily ins and outs of the new 2009 Nissan 370Z. The VQ37's refinement has been in question since its debut, so how will we feel about it after a year? The aggressive suspension calibration and hyper-sticky tires that help the 370Z nail our slalom test at nearly 70 mph are certainly fun for freeway off-ramps, but will the Z-car prove to be a tolerable ride the rest of the way to work? And the last Nissan with a clutch that we drove for a long-term road test — the 2007 Infiniti G35S — was frequently ignored because of its awkward, grabby clutch action. Will the Z-car be friendly enough for daily use? Moreover, how will the Z-car's appeal shake out when our long-term garage now holds not just two examples of the 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution but also the 2009 Nissan GT-R?

Stay tuned to the long-term road test blog and let us know what you think.

Current Odometer: 1,410
Best Fuel Economy: 18.5 mpg
Worst Fuel Economy: 14.7 mpg
Average Fuel Economy (over the life of the vehicle): 16.1 mpg

Source: 2009 Nissan 370Z Long-Term Road Test Introduction

AK370Z · 03-30-2009, 12:09 AM

Okay guys, I completely forgot about this Long Term blog. I was suppose update it from time to time. Here are all the submissions from day one.

Enjoy!

February 23, 2009

2009 Nissan 370Z: SynchroRev Match Making Things Too Easy?

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Ever since I learned to drive stick I've been trying to figure out how to master the heel-toe downshift. I've practiced on every manual-shift car I get in, have asked many an editor to teach me and even got Edmunds Senior Automotive Editor Brent Romans to make a video running through the steps. But I can NEVER get it. When to blip? When to brake? When to move my foot off the clutch? Is my foot too small? I know, I overthink things.

But then we got the 2009 Nissan 370Z Touring in our fleet. Another editor suggested I give it a go since it has the very nifty SynchroRev Match feature that blips the throttle for you when you downshift. "You'll be able to hear when you should get the revs up," he said.

So lucky me had the Z this weekend. It's much easier to manage than our old Z which felt like its clutch pedal was a foot off the floor. In any case, sure enough when I downshift, the car automatically blips the throttle for me, making for a smooth transition to a lower gear. Neat! At first I loved it. I felt like a superhero racecar driver...but then I realized that since it does the job for me, I can never practice and can therefore never master that elusive skill.

Sure, there's an off button for SynchroRev Match but 1) with that technology readily available, will the Average Joe still be willing to suffer through the annoyingly awkward stages of the learning process to master the heel-toe downshift? And 2) where is the off button?

Caroline Pardilla, Deputy Managing Editor @ 1,757 miles

February 24, 2009
2009 Nissan 370Z: A Gauge Cluster Worth Copying

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So the trip computer in the new 370Z is a little funky and those auxiliary gauges on the dash can be hard to see sometimes, but would you look at that tachometer?

I mean, that's how a tach in a sportscar is done. Big, clear and right in the middle. It seems so easy, yet all too often designers try to get cute and start shoving it off to the side in the name of symmetry. Stop it already, just copy this setup and call it a day.

Just take a look at the dials from Jacob's post below. Not bad for a sedan, but how much better are the Z's?

Ed Hellwig, Senior Editor @ 1,763 miles

February 26, 2009
2009 Nissan 370Z Touring: You Write the Caption

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Deputy Caroline took this picture of the Nissan 370Z looking like the Cube is a growth on its nose.

I offer up "Dude, you made it come out my nose."

I'm sure you can beat that.

We'll post our favorite caption Friday at 4PM (Pacific Time).

Donna DeRosa, Managing Editor

February 27, 2009
2009 Nissan 370Z Touring: Our Favorite Caption

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Thanks to vacagrande for this week's favorite caption.

Others that made us laugh:

I should've never slept with that pathfinder (cx7lover)
He's my brother from another mother (louiswei)
It's not a tumor! (gooney911) and It's naht a toumah! (Murtman)
Do these wheels make my butt look big? (shladney)
Extra, Extra - Nissan engineers discover the wind-tunnel! (Before and after shots). (bizz1)
Z: Hey, Lil' Man...You're in my space. (johnnyr3)

And you can always get me with a Star Wars reference:

Cube, I am your father (gooney911)

What was your favorite?

Donna DeRosa, Managing Editor

March 6, 2009
2009 Nissan 370Z: Comfort Takes a Back Seat to Driver Involvement

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My first real seat time in a 370Z came several months ago when we did our initial road test. I loved it and said so in my second opinion. Now that I've had a little bit more time behind the wheel, however, I'm starting to realize that as a daily driver, the 370Z might not be my first choice.

It's not the power, the ride quality or the funky gas gauge either. It's the interior room, or lack thereof. I just don't fit in the thing. Now granted, at 6'2" I'm a little taller than average, but still the 370Z feels tight even when you're properly adjusted with plenty of foot room.

It's a good setup when you're ripping a tight road, but getting into it after work with a computer case and gym bag in hand, the Z fills up real quick. Add to that a low seating position and tight shoulder room and the 370Z just doesn't give you much room to relax.

Is it enough to make me not buy it? No, it's still too fast in a straight line and too sticky in the turns for that, but it would be enough to make me reconsider some of its competitors like the new Mustang or Genesis Coupe. Those cars don't match up dynamically to the Z, but they are a little more comfortable.

Ed Hellwig, Senior Editor @ 1,876 miles

March 9, 2009
2009 Nissan 370Z: Small Touches Make It Survivable as a Daily Driver

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I put close to 400 miles on our 2009 Nissan 370Z Touring over the weekend. Although it started with a few turns on Glendora Mountain Road, the rest of it was nearly all freeway. After all that, I am in agreement with Ed that the Z is pretty amazing through corners but not the most livable daily driver in this price range.

Ride quality is pretty good in the 370Z, even with the forged 19-inch RAYS wheels and Bridgestone Potenza RE050As (P245/40R19s in front and P275/35R19s in the back), but road noise is high. On several occasions, I instinctively reached for the volume dial when my boyfriend started to say something, only to realize that I was trying to turn the car down rather than the stereo.

Similarly, the seats are well-shaped for my 5-foot-10 frame and proved comfortable for 2-hour stints. Yet, there's no question that the 370Z's smaller size (compared to the 350Z) affects the seating position. The dash is right up in your face, and with no telescoping steering wheel, there's no escape.

Still, there are a number of details on the 2009 370Z that helped me overlook its compromises. For one, its size. At 167.1 inches long, it's almost 3 inches shorter than the 350Z. It feels compact from behind the wheel and it fits in small street parking spots. (Please note that I would never park it like this overnight -- just for 30 minutes while at the farmers market.)

Another touch I like are the shelves behind the seats. The 350Z had a small, closable cubby back here, but I never found it very useful. Not so with these shelves. They're lined in felt and have a raised lip around their perimeter, so you can actually place something here with some assurance that it will stay put around cloverleaf entrance ramps.

Naturally, I put my purse on the shelf behind the driver seat, but the other shelf kept these dim sum leftovers from liberating themselves in the footwells.

Erin Riches, Senior Editor @ 2,731 miles

AK370Z · 03-30-2009, 12:10 AM

March 11, 2009
2009 Nissan 370Z vs. 2010 Ford Mustang GT

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That's our long-term 2009 Nissan 370Z Touring during a head-to-head comparison test with Ford's new and improved 2010 Mustang GT Premium complete with the optional Track Package. It was a fun test between two very capable 300+ hp, rear-wheel drive performance coupes. They even cost about the same if you're careful with the Z's options list.

We tested them on the track and on the street, and we hit more than one mountain road. We even shot video, which I happen to think is worth watch twice.

I won't spoil the outcome of this battle for you here, but I'm curious, which would you choose?

2010 Ford Mustang vs. 2009 Nissan 370Z Comparison Test on Inside Line

2009 Nissan 370Z: Seven Hours in the Driver Seat and I'm Still OK

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I had to drive to the distant suburbs of Phoenix today in our 2009 Nissan 370Z. The trip started out in the usual fashion -- I left late and felt rushed getting to a 6:30 p.m. dinner (made it in plenty of time, though). The navigation system didn't help matters by continually suggesting that I drive down to San Diego and use Interstate 8. See here, Nav Lady, I only use I-10 when I go to Phoenix. Finally, in Blythe, CA, she relented and we went on to Maricopa without incident.

The big surprise of the day was the 370Z's seat comfort. I sat in the driver seat for 7 hours and did not get kinked up, much less sore -- a real feat for a Type A person like myself. It's interesting, really. These seats have a decent amount of adjustments, and the upholstery grips well through turns, but still, for this kind of money, it seems like there should be Recaros.

Still, 7 hours of comfort cannot be denied. I didn't even use cruise control.

Erin Riches, Senior Editor @ 3,307 miles

March 12, 2009
2009 Nissan 370Z Touring: Track Tested!

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By now you've all read our 2010 Ford Mustang Vs. 2009 Nissan 370Z comparison test. At the end of the day, the newly refreshed Mustang (a darn good car) put up a strong fight but ultimately fell to the sharper, more focused, better looking (yes, better looking)--but less functional Z car.

Before that test was ever conceived, we subjected our Long Term 370Z to the usual set of performance tests. Follow the jump for full results.

Vehicle: 2009 Nissan 370z Touring 6MT

Odometer: 995
Date: 02/03/09
Driver: Josh Jacquot

Price: $40,320

Specifications:
Drive Type: Rear Wheel Drive
Transmission Type: 6-speed manual

Engine Type: 60-degree V6

Displacement (cc / cu-in): 3,696cc (226 cu-in)

Redline (rpm): 7,500

horsepower (hp @ rpm): 332 @ 7000
Torque (lb-ft @ rpm): 270 @ 5200
Brake Type (front): 14.0-by-1.26-inch ventilated discs with fixed 4-piston calipers
Brake Type (rear): 13.8-by-0.79-inch ventilated disc with 2-piston calipers

Steering System: Speed-proportional power steering
Suspension Type (front): Double wishbone

Suspension Type (rear): Multilink
Tire Size (front): P245/40R19 94W
Tire Size (rear): P275/35R19 96W
Tire Brand: Bridgestone
Tire Model: Potenza RE050A
Tire Type: Summer
Wheel Size: 19-by-9 inches front -- 19-by-10 inches rear
Wheel Material (front/rear): Aluminum alloy
As tested Curb Weight (lb): 3,381

Test Results:
0 - 30 (sec): 2.1
0 - 45 (sec): 3.5
0 - 60 (sec): 5.3 (5.8 with traction control enabled)
0 - 75 (sec): 7.8
1/4 Mile (sec @ mph): 13.6 @ 103.2 (14.0 @ 101.0 with traction control enabled)
0-60 with 1-ft Rollout (sec): 5.1 (5.6 with traction control enabled)
30 - 0 (ft): 25
60 - 0 (ft): 105
Braking Rating: Very Good
Slalom (mph): 70.4 (67.1 with traction control enabled)
Skid Pad Lateral acceleration (g): 0.93 ( .89 with traction control enabled)
Handling Rating: Excellent
Db @ Idle: 49.2
Db @ Full Throttle: 82.7
Db @ 70 mph Cruise: 70.3

Acceleration Comments: 370 Z seems to like wheel spin off the line-- and it's required to keep from bogging engine. We found at least 5,000 rpm works best. Get the clutch out quick or it will sink. Tranny still resists fast shifts, especially 1-2.

Braking Comments: Very good distance and pedal feel, but scored rotors aren't good. See below for details.

Handling Comments: (Skid pad) Limits are high but understeer is heavy as they approach. Coaxing the Z into tail-out goodness isn't as easy as I'd like. (Slalom) Superb grip & predictability make the 370 reassuring in fast transitions. It's shorter wheelbase, however, makes it slightly more spin happy than I remember from the 350Z. Overall, however, I prefer the new nimbleness.

Let's take a minute to talk gauged brakes, shall we?

This is a picture of the front rotor of our Nissan 370z after brake testing. The car had 1,000 hard miles on it, but still, after the first two stops of 130+ feet, we knew that they were not bed-in enough for testing and began that process. The bedding-in process, according to our Engineering Editor Jay Kavanagh, "establishes a useful "transfer layer" of pad material onto the rotor, and should be done on any high-performance braking systems. It works like this--you perform several (ten or so) moderate stops in rapid succession, starting from ~60 mph to ~10 mph, then let them cool." The first stops we did combined with a shortened bed-in process resulted in some screaming hot (that's a technical term) pads which became abrasive and scored the rotors. Despite the looks, the pedal feels fine and the car came to a stop from 60 in only 105 feet.

Mike Magrath, Vehicle Testing Assistant

Old Cars Out, New Cars In: Bye-bye R8, C300, X5 and Grand Caravan

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In the past couple of weeks we've had a lot of turnover in our long-term fleet. Some cars have gone bye-bye and we've gotten a couple of newbies. I thought you'd want an update.

Gone are the BMW X5, Audi R8 and Dodge Grand Caravan. There will be no more blogs on these cars, but look for an in depth wrap-up on each in the next few weeks, just like the one we published on our Mercedes C300 today. All three are already missed. The X5 and R8 were staff favorites, and the minivan proved to be great at moving people and things, even if we didn't always shower it with praise.

New to the fleet is a bitchin' black 2009 Dodge Challenger R/T we purchased about a week ago. Look for its full introduction to this blog next week and a flood of posts soon after. We also recently acquired a Hyundai Genesis sedan and a Nissan 370Z, both of which we introduced to you and this blog recently.

Soon to finish up their time in our fleet will be the Cadillac CTS, Pontiac G8, the 2002 BMW E46 M3, our Subaru WRX STI and our BMW 135i. Any suggestions on replacements?

Scott Oldham, Inside Line Editor in Chief

March 13, 2009

2009 Nissan 370Z Touring: A Real GT When You Want It to Be

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My 36-hour, 900-mile Arizona road trip in our long-term 2009 Nissan 370Z Touring ended around 11:30 last night. Although I never had a chance to explore any interesting back roads with the Z, I am surprised by how much I still like it after hours on interstates and numbing desert highways.

Ride comfort is a big reason, because our sport-package 370Z is compliant to a level I never would have believed before this trip. This is not a compromised sport coupe. It's one I could live with everyday.

I've really warmed to the driving position, too. Although I previously complained that the new-gen car's shortened wheelbase has the dash up in your face, the setup turned out to be fine on my trip. I was comfortable behind the wheel, even though it doesn't telescope, and I liked how I was in finger's reach of the nav, audio and climate controls.

Average fuel economy for the trip was over 21 mpg, and I don't deserve any credit for driving conservatively on I-10. Instead, I chalk it up to the 18 speed cameras I passed in greater Phoenix (even without a front plate, I was careful) and low speed limits in the Maricopa area.

I checked the oil around 3,300 miles (on a level surface after letting the car sit 15 minutes) and it registered below the low mark on the dipstick. I bought a quart of 5W30 and added it in stages, but ultimately, the 370Z needed the whole thing. Given that the oil also looks dirty, the car will likely be getting an oil change soon. No surprise that it needs one, really. We've driven the Z hard.

Erin Riches, Senior Editor @ 3,807 miles

AK370Z · 03-30-2009, 12:11 AM

March 16, 2009
2009 Nissan 370Z Touring: Guess What? I Can't See You.

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Before spending the last thousand miles with our 2009 Nissan 370Z Touring, I'd thought that anyone who wanted parking sensors or a back-up camera on a sportscar had issues with spatial relations and parking in general. That might still be true, but I'll tell you this: After two weeks with our Z car, I'm still terrible at judging the rearward view.

This is exactly what I see when I'm belted into the driver seat and turn my head to look back. If there's someone in the passenger seat, that useless rear quarter window is blocked. In a crowded parking lot, my only strategy is to start backing up verrry slowly and hope that I see cross traffic before it's too late.

I actually haven't had any close calls in our 370Z, but if bumper sensors or a camera were optional on this car, I'd swallow my pride and order them.

Erin Riches, Senior Editor @ 3,890 miles

March 18, 2009
2009 Nissan 370Z: The Decade The Affordable Automotive Music Died

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Brace yourselves for the latest Long-Term Blog textcast, in which we tackle sausage, sportbikes, and the demise of the affordable sporting engine note.

Sadlier: So where's your $30k going. Base 370Z? Genesis Coupe 3.8 Track? 128i? Mustang GT?
Sadlier: Subaru Tribeca?
Magrath: 370Z. The Mustang's better than expected by a lot but I just don't like it. The seating position is too high and I think it looks dumb. The 128 is lame. I would constantly kick myself for not getting the turbo motor.
Magrath: Genesis Coupe is interesting but I don't like being in it. Great to drive but the steering wheel is lousy, the Infinity stereo's lousy and I think the car is ugly.
Sadlier: Huh. The Genesis Coupe's looks have actually grown on me. Plus the doors slam shut like my old prison cell -- very similar to our M3. I seriously think Hyundai benchmarked those doors.
Sadlier: The problem with the Genesis is that the 128i basically matches its acceleration numbers, and it's more refined. I think I would grit my teeth and go with the 128i, horrendous ugliness notwithstanding. With apologies to the Tribeca.
Sadlier: ...unless a cold-air intake or something could fix the Z's gnarly engine note ("the coarse sounds and vibration of this V6 mean you have to grit your teeth and force yourself to keep the throttle floored past 6,000 rpm" -- Engineering Editor Kavanagh), in which case, absolutely, sign me up.
Magrath: You'd pick the ugliness of the 128 over the engine note of the Z? I can understand picking it because of the Z's horrible road noise, but not because of the engine sound. You'd also be stuck with a back seat. I like that the Z doesn't give a backseat. The option of four seats just makes people think it's okay to ask for rides.
Sadlier: Yeah, backseats are overrated. Except that they're really useful. But you know, as far as the engine note goes, I tend to think that if an engine sounds like the Z's, it's because the engine team just couldn't be bothered to fix it. And I want my car's engineers to care about how my engine sounds.
Magrath: You know all they'd do is add a tumor-like snorkus to the intake, a la the F-150 -- which has 4!
Sadlier: Four?!
Sadlier: Well, shoot, if that does the trick, then snorkus away. The snorkus makes the GTI's 2.0T sound good, and that's fine with me. The motor doesn't have to be authentically refined. I'm willing to be tricked.
Magrath: The Z's engine sounds like intake and valves going all crazy, that's what machines sound like.
Sadlier: I disagree. Some engines are just thoroughbreds. They can't help but sound good. Which, by the way, is why mentioning the Z in the same breath as the Porsche Cayman is absurd.
Magrath: And why pitting anything bang-for-the-buck-oriented against anything pure-performance-oriented is absurd. It's lose-lose. Want to compare Wal-Mart knives to Shun Elite? They both cut stuff. Go for it! Artisan-made Italian salumi to that tube of sausage you can buy at the deli for 48 cents a bucket? Sure!
Sadlier: Exactly. I mean, I can't say I was thinking specifically about preserved meats, but, yes.
Magrath: There will be people who get it, and then there will be people who say that the lower-priced item is good enough and the other is a waste of money. So it goes.
Sadlier: But you know, even cheaper sports/sporty cars used to sound pretty damn good sometimes. With the notable exception of the V8-powered Mustang/Challenger/Camaro trio, why do they mostly sound like crap these days?

Sadlier: Take that 1990 Miata we have downstairs [a special loaner from Mazda's garage]. I remember reading that the engineers painstakingly tuned the sound until they had just the right sporty roadster character. Fast-forward to 20 years later, and what have we got?
Sadlier: The 370Z, which sounds like a bear whose hibernation was rudely disturbed (as opposed to the old VQ V6s, the 3.0-liter versions, which had a classic turbine-like smoothness).

Sadlier: The Genesis Coupe 2.0T, which, like its Evo/Ralliart/Lancer 2.0 engine-mates, sounds like a vacuum cleaner.

Sadlier: Even Honda's ostensibly sporty VTEC fours don't sound good anymore. Civic Si is one of the better-sounding sporty things currently, and it's a distant echo of the old Integra GSR. TSX, totally boring, forget it -- the '95 Accord EX 5MT sounded ten times better. Only the S2000 has that cool sound I'm talking about.

Sadlier: The '00s: the decade the affordable non-V8 automotive music died.
Magrath: But hiring engineers to tune a specific sound can't be cheap, and in the current automotive climate, short of exotics, what's the point?

Magrath: If you're in the market for a new car, the engine note isn't going to be a deal breaker. It may be a footnote in stories you tell later on, "aww, my old GSR sounded so much better...," but that story will always end with the classic going away and a new car, better in every measurable way, replacing it.

Sadlier: Well, call me a Luddite (it's been done before), but with the Genesis Coupe 2.0T/Evo/etc., I think the engine note is a total dealbreaker. It quite literally sounds like a vacuum cleaner. Likewise the 370Z -- the hibernating bear analogy is accurate, I'm afraid. They just don't sound like sports cars. Period.

Magrath: The 2.0T in the Genesis does sound pretty pathetic.

Sadlier: Put it this way. Imagine if a sportbike sounded like that. Dealbreaker, right? Why shouldn't we hold sporty cars to the same standard?

Magrath: Because sportbikes appeal to one person: the sportbike rider. And even those have been tuned down to acceptable levels lately-- show me 10 bikes and I'll show you 9 aftermarket mufflers.

Sadlier: On the contrary, I think the sportbike sound appeals to anyone who likes going fast in things with wheels. There's no mistaking that sound for anything other than an engine that's designed to take you places really quickly. Whenever I hear one, it's like an instant gateway to a daydream about fast driving.

Sadlier: And when I hear the 370Z, I think of an angry bear.

Magrath: But a daydream is a far cry from a purchase.

Sadlier: True, I don't want to die, hence I don't buy sportbikes. But still, if I were designing an affordable sporty car, you know, I think there's a real opening in the market here. Give it a spine-tingling engine note, one that says "I am fast and special" to you and whoever's along for the ride, and that can only help its cause. Affordable non-V8 cars just don't have that anymore.

Sadlier: Though in fact they are (in the Z's case at least, and the Evo's) very fast and pretty special.

Magrath: But most buyers don't want to hear ANY engine noise--even ones who buy sports or sporty cars just want the looks and the concept of fast. They'll never push it. Engineers are tailoring cars to the lowest common acceptability levels and if a car is going to be full of dynamat anyway, why bother tuning the engine?

Sadlier: In the Z's case, they didn't dynamat jack squat. Though they should've at least covered the firewall with it so we wouldn't have to listen to that racket. That's what makes the G37 tolerable -- they put a bunch more sound-deadening material on the firewall.

Magrath: One man's high tech and spine tingling is another fella's buzzy and strained. Who do you appease with your fancy engine note? The ricer crowd who thinks shrill is cool? The pushrod dudes who like the sound of stalling? Take the last gen G35 -- the engine note was lackluster, but they tuned the exhaust to sound like the future and people loved it or hated it. No in-between.

Magrath: Hate = no sale. Ambivalence = possible sale.

Sadlier: Nah, I think it's a win-win proposition. Spend a few extra bucks and turn the vacuum cleaner or the angry bear into a special-sounding machine. You'll impress people who are eager to dismiss the car as "just a Hyundai" (in the GC's case) or cheap sausage (the Z).

Sadlier: And as for those who couldn't care less, well, I'm sure they won't mind driving a sporting car that actually sounds like one.

Sadlier: Follow Porsche's example -- or BMW's, or Honda's with the old VTEC cars, or Nissan in the 3.0-liter VQ days, etc. -- and lead the way. Flaunt your aural excellence. Set yourself apart.

Sadlier: Build it and they will come, Magrath.

Sadlier: A guy who built a baseball diamond in a cornfield said that.

AK370Z · 03-30-2009, 12:12 AM

March 23, 2009
2009 Nissan 370Z: Facing Off Against the 2010 Mustang

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The Inside Line crew's 370Z vs. Mustang GT comparo gave the win to the Nissan, but the Edmunds.com editors performed their own brief evaluation in the spirit of a high school debate. Which middleweight triumphs? That's for you to decide. Check it out here.

In Face Off, we will pit cars against each other, but instead of the full-blown, highly scrutinized, professional comparison test, this is something different. One editor will defend the honor of one car, and make the case for why they would buy it -- and why the other guy is wrong. In the end, you can decide who wins.

While last week's undercard bout pitted the Range Rover Supercharged against the Mercedes-Benz G550, this week's main event is entirely different weight class: the 2010 Ford Mustang GT versus the 2009 Nissan 370Z. Both have trained hard in the off-season and undertaken some corrective cosmetic surgery. Think of this as a companion to the Inside Line brawl that gave the decision to the Z. Will the fans award a knockout this time? The fighters are entering the ring for this real-deal, rear-wheel automobile smackdown. Let's get ready to grumble!

Opening Arguments:

Mark Takahashi for the 2010 Ford Mustang GT
The new Mustang harkens back to a time before we obsessed over mutual funds, irritable bowel syndrome or which Disney star just imploded -- a time of Rock 'n' Roll, drag racing, denim and burgers with a generous serving of cool. This Mustang keeps that spirit alive and emerges with nothing but improvements over pony cars past: better handling dynamics, a quiet interior, a meaner nose, sculpted haunches, trick new taillights and a much improved interior. Now I'm not saying it's perfect, but I'll take edgy over clinical any day. And don't think that it's all sharp edges and bare metal, either. Nifty perks like Sync, customizable color lighting and a thumpin' sound system keep it well-rounded for daily use. Add in options like a glass roof, navigation and a rearview camera to watch your own burnout and you'll have a hard time wiping away my perma-grin.

Also, you just can't ignore the obvious practicality advantages the Mustang has over the Z -- the two additional seats and a trunk that can fit more than just Keira Knightley's swimsuit. You could take three friends to In 'n' Out Burgers or go on a cross-country road trip. Good luck in the Z. Plus, the 'Stang delivers something that the Zed can't, and never could. It's the bravado that comes with a big honkin' V8. There, I've said it -- I love displacement. If we lived in Canada, I'd marry it and make it mine.

James Riswick for the 2009 Nissan 370Z
You're right, the Mustang does harken back to an earlier time -- but so does my grandfather. It indeed boasts significant improvements over past pony cars, but that's a pretty low bar to hurdle. Wow, the solid rear axle is much better than the old solid rear axle. The steering has less Novocaine coursing through its pump than the old car. No thank you.

I'll take the Nissan 370Z, a thoroughly modern sports car designed in the here-and-now for people in the here-and-now. While the Mustang touts how it manages to mask its quaint underpinnings, the Z flaunts game-changing technology like the SynchroRev Match shifter. This is evolution of the species, the Mustang is Jurassic Park. If you look at simple track numbers, both cars are remarkably neck and neck. But in reality, they couldn't feel any different. There is a precision to the Nissan; a confident bond between Z and driver. It knows what I want and I know what the car is doing. Yet it's also reasonably refined for road trips and the daily slog.

I'll concede that the Z isn't very practical. No back seat and a tiny trunk could be a serious deal breaker for those who need it as their lone daily driver. But as long as the Z can haul Keira's swimsuit, that's good enough -- that just means she picked me and my Z rather than Grandpa Mark and his Mustang.

Rebuttals

Takahashi:
I admit, these middleweights are evenly matched ... on paper. Heck, I'll even give a nod to the Z's handling. But listen up my young Padawan, there is something so exquisite about wrestling a musclecar into shape (and performing REAL heel-toe downshifts). It's as rewarding as riding a racehorse or chasing kids off my lawn. The Mustang inspires me, while the Z is as soulless as Ben Stein reciting Piece of my Heart. In the Mustang, I'm Steve McQueen in Bullitt. In the Z I'm ummmm, geez, Bruce Willis in Blind Date? Puhleeeze. Bruce had it right in Pulp Fiction when he said, "Zed's dead, baby ... Zed's dead."

Riswick:
Didn't Bruce get with Kim Basinger in that movie? Who cares. If you take joy in wrestling a horse about, so be it, ride on cowboy. But allow me to switch gears (without heel-toeing) by bringing up the interior. While the Mustang's quality has improved dramatically from its wretched predecessor, it still feels bland and extremely dated. I find it depressing. The 370 is a big improvement from the 350, but its ambiance is borderline luxurious and conveys a distinct sporting intent. It inspires me to go fast for long periods of time. Sure, I can't see a bloody thing out the back, but the only thing I'm going to see back there is you power sliding into a Dutch Elm while I pull away, effortlessly cutting through Latigo Canyon Road with Keira Knightley cooing over my perfectly matched downshifts.

So, who wins?

2009 Nissan 370Z: All-Star Wheel and Tire Sizing

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You may not have noticed, but our sport-package-equipped 2009 Nissan 370Z has got some serious wheel and brake hardware. The forged alloy wheels measure 19x9 up front and 19x10 at the rear. The corresponding tire sizes are 245/40R19 and 275/35R19s. This is on a sub-3,400-pound car with 332 horsepower, mind you.

For comparison, BMW's expired Z4M coupe, a car with a similar size/weight/power, rolled on 18x8s up front, 18x9s in the rear and 225/45R18 tires up front and 255/40R18s in back. Even the base Corvette (18s up front and 19s in back) has 245-width tires in front and 285s in back.

The Z's braking performance during testing was a little controversial, but in terms of specs -- 14-inch rotors up front with four-piston calipers -- there's nothing to complain about.

When it's standing still, the 370Z really looks the part thanks to those 19s, big brakes and wide tires. And with an as-tested 70.4 mph slalom speed and 0.93 g on the skidpad, it's got the numbers to back it up.

Brent Romans, Senior Automotive Editor @ 4,186 miles

2009 Nissan 370Z: More Braces Than a Junior Prom

[QUOTE]

I love the way our 2009 Nissan 370Z handles so crisply, yet its ride quality is still relatively supple. Credit is certainly due to the car's stiff body structure, which Nissan says allowed it to tune the suspension to be more compliant. Just about everywhere you look, our 370Z has bracing. Under the hood? There's a suspension tower brace that spans the engine bay width and connects to the firewall. Open a door and you'll see the thick beam behind the seats. Nissan wasn't messing around.

As you have perhaps noticed, the 370Z lacks the 350Z's infamous exposed rear structural brace. I remember reading that Nissan had "inverted" it. I was curious to see where it went, so I went looking.

I removed the rear carpet and cover. If there's an inverted structural crossmember here, I didn't see it. Perhaps it's considered the raised part of the body structure ahead of the spare tire that spans the width of the rear suspension towers?

By the way, you can see that this is where the spare tire is located. The subwoofer for the Bose audio system is also here, nestled into the wheel. I unscrewed the securing clamp and lifted the subwoofer; I'd guess it weighs about 10 to 15 pounds.

Compared to the 350Z, Nissan's 370Z press release claims that there's "a new front suspension cradle to reduce front body lateral bending," new "rear structural reinforcements" and "an underbody "V-bar" to help reduce rear lateral bending." I peeked underneath the rear of the car and did see what appears to be the additional structural bracing, including the "V-bar." It'd be interesting to get our car up on a lift at some point to see this stuff in more detail. Or maybe not, if standing underneath a car looking at nondescript metal bits isn't your thing.

Anyway, I'm continuing to enjoy the Jack-be-nimble handling characteristics of our 370Z.

Brent Romans, Senior Automotive Editor

2009 Nissan 370Z: Not Quite Awesome Enough

Quote:

Our 2009 Nissan 370Z has satellite radio, and when I'm driving I'll occasionally listen to radio Faction's afternoon DJ, Jason Ellis. Jason has this ongoing theme where callers recount their feats of awesomeness and he then judges them on whether or not they are admitted into a nirvana-like "awesome world."

I mention this because our Nissan 370Z would be an excellent candidate for Brent's Sports Car Awesome World. It's got tidy dimensions, great handling, a quality interior, impressive as-tested numbers and, to my eyes at least, a good-looking exterior. But there's one thing that's going to hold it back from gaining entry.

The not-so-awesome thing: the V6 engine. Now, this is a capable engine that's surprisingly torquey and tractable. And there's certainly nothing wrong with having 332 hp on tap nor a 0-60-mph time in the low 5-second range. But this latest 3.7-liter version makes the 370Z a Tin Man from the Wizard of Oz -- it has no heart.

The V6's coarseness and vibration at anything past 5,000 rpm are just plain bad. Really, when you're hard on it, that last 1,500 rpm to redline is not enjoyable all. (And this is the part that's supposed to be the most exhilarating for a small-displacement sports car!) Meanwhile, there's no aural passion whatsoever. Sadlier described as sounding like a bear -- err, OK, maybe. The engine note is OK when you fire it up but then it's all downhill from there. There's this distracting engine whine at lower rpm and none of the characteristic 350Z exhaust warble heard from either inside or outside the car.

I wish I had video for you, but I don't. But I found this video clip on YouTube of a 370Z with an aftermarket exhaust. There might be hope for disgruntled 370Z owners.

As it stands, though, the larger V6 is the one thing I think Nissan flubbed. Make the new Z's engine exciting to rev and listen to, and the car gets into Brent's Sports Car Awesome World.

Brent Romans, Senior Automotive Editor @ 4,532 miles

AK370Z · 03-30-2009, 12:12 AM

2009 Nissan 370Z Touring: Gear indicated

Quote:

I used to have a sportbike or two a while back. Riding on more than one occasion, I wouldn't know what gear I was in -- I wished for a gear indicator display. Well, today, several sportbikes have such a feature.

And it's especially nice on a motorbike because of the sequential 6-speed gearbox, the close ratios, and the extremely flexible engine. If you weren't paying close attention, it would be easy to forget where you were, particularly in the middle of the gearbox (3,4,5).

The car where this gear indicator display would come in handy is the BMW 135, because it too has a close ratio 6-speed manual gearbox (but non-sequential) and an extremely flexible engine. Several times I've lost track of what gear I was in.

The 370Z on the other hand, has nicely spaced ratios and, although the engine can rev, I can't imagine it being called motorbike-like -- it doesn't zing up. You get a lot of feedback from the engine and exhaust note, too.

So do you need the gear indicator on the 370Z? Well, it's nice to have, and doesn't take up almost any space in the meters at the bottom of the tacho. It's not like it's a head-up display that is blocking your view or something. And it shows you if you got the occasionally hard to get reverse.

Next to the gear indicator is a display showing if the Syncrorev match system is on or not (JK said it remembers last position selected.) Which is nice.

But I guess this won't matter in the future, anyway, when the New World Order in Washington forces us to all drive hybrid/electric/fuel cell vehicles with CVTs.

Albert Austria, Sr Vehicle Eval Engineer @ 4646 miles

2009 Nissan 370Z Touring: No ZZZZs Here

Quote:

We sure had fun when we put the 2009 Nissan 370Z against the new Mustang GT.

Pricewise, the cars were pretty evenly matched. And both hit 60 mph in 5.2 seconds and run the quarter in 13.5 seconds.

But there was a definite victor. And that winner, my friends, is the Car of the Week.

Donna DeRosa, Managing Edito

tvfreakazoid · 04-13-2009, 04:14 PM

I have to agree with guy of what he said about the sound of the car:
(The V6's coarseness and vibration at anything past 5,000 rpm are just plain bad. Really, when you're hard on it, that last 1,500 rpm to redline is not enjoyable all. (And this is the part that's supposed to be the most exhilarating for a small-displacement sports car!) Meanwhile, there's no aural passion whatsoever. Sadlier described as sounding like a bear -- err, OK, maybe. The engine note is OK when you fire it up but then it's all downhill from there. There's this distracting engine whine at lower rpm and none of the characteristic 350Z exhaust warble heard from either inside or outside the car.

I wish I had video for you, but I don't. But I found this video clip on YouTube of a 370Z with an aftermarket exhaust. There might be hope for disgruntled 370Z owners.

As it stands, though, the larger V6 is the one thing I think Nissan flubbed. Make the new Z's engine exciting to rev and listen to, and the car gets into Brent's Sports Car Awesome World.

Brent Romans, Senior Automotive Editor @ 4,532 miles )

AK370Z · 03-30-2009, 12:13 AM

reserved 3

AK370Z · 03-30-2009, 07:30 AM

Evolved · 03-30-2009, 11:27 AM

Nice, thanks for the updates.

AK370Z · 04-13-2009, 09:47 AM

updated post 2 and 3 with new info.

BTW, 370Z is car of the week at Edmunds!

FricFrac · 04-13-2009, 10:26 AM

"but the only thing I'm going to see back there is you power sliding into a Dutch Elm while I pull away" (in reference to the Mustang)

ROFLMA - sounds excatly like the smack talk at the track with the boys

Kinda like when I was harassing a buddy about the paint job on his hood "well its not gonna matter - all you are gonna see is the back end of my car anyhow" "Yea that's right - as I put you down another lap" :P ...ah smack talk and pit racing...

Endgame · 04-13-2009, 11:16 AM

Again, I must ask.... Is the Z's engine really that bad???

VTalumni · 04-13-2009, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Endgame

Again, I must ask.... Is the Z's engine really that bad???

I would like to second this question. The biggest feedback I hear about this car is the engine noise. I would really like to know if this is really as bad as they say it is?

2bits · 04-13-2009, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Endgame

Again, I must ask.... Is the Z's engine really that bad???

No. I've been listending for that sub-standard sound all these reviewers mention. Believe me when I say I have no qualms running it up and down the tach on a regular basis, and I don't know where they're coming from. One thing in common among all the test cars I've read about: they all have 6MT. I have a 7AT, so maybe that smooths out whatever rasp they think they are hearing?

I'm tempted to think the engine simply doesn't sound like the engine in [insert reviewer's favorite sportscar here, usually a Porsche].

04-13-2009, 04:14 PM	#7 (permalink)
tvfreakazoid A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: kommie kali Posts: 1,238 Drives: 2015 Audi S5; 6spd. Rep Power: 10325	I have to agree with guy of what he said about the sound of the car: (The V6's coarseness and vibration at anything past 5,000 rpm are just plain bad. Really, when you're hard on it, that last 1,500 rpm to redline is not enjoyable all. (And this is the part that's supposed to be the most exhilarating for a small-displacement sports car!) Meanwhile, there's no aural passion whatsoever. Sadlier described as sounding like a bear -- err, OK, maybe. The engine note is OK when you fire it up but then it's all downhill from there. There's this distracting engine whine at lower rpm and none of the characteristic 350Z exhaust warble heard from either inside or outside the car. I wish I had video for you, but I don't. But I found this video clip on YouTube of a 370Z with an aftermarket exhaust. There might be hope for disgruntled 370Z owners. As it stands, though, the larger V6 is the one thing I think Nissan flubbed. Make the new Z's engine exciting to rev and listen to, and the car gets into Brent's Sports Car Awesome World. Brent Romans, Senior Automotive Editor @ 4,532 miles ) __________________ Mudders milk

03-30-2009, 12:13 AM	#8 (permalink)
AK370Z Administrator Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: NJ Posts: 9,930 Drives: 09 370Z MB Sports M6 Rep Power: 10	reserved 3 __________________ The370Z Signature Pictures ll Want to rock our forum decals on your car? Then click here! ll How to Embed YouTube Videos In a Post STOP! (Hammertime) ll Become a Premium Member Click HERE ll F.A.Q. Are You a Nissan Dealer? Click Here to Become A "Supporting Dealer" and Start Listing Your 370Zs In Our Inventory Section My Monterey Blue Z ll My Exhaust --> My Intake --> G3 Nissan's Official Response Regarding Oil Temp Issue: CLICK HERE Need a Set of Cheap Winter wheels /Tires? Then Visit The Banner Link Below and Place Your Order. You'll Help Keep The370Z Alive.

03-30-2009, 07:30 AM	#9 (permalink)
AK370Z Administrator Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: NJ Posts: 9,930 Drives: 09 370Z MB Sports M6 Rep Power: 10	__________________ The370Z Signature Pictures ll Want to rock our forum decals on your car? Then click here! ll How to Embed YouTube Videos In a Post STOP! (Hammertime) ll Become a Premium Member Click HERE ll F.A.Q. Are You a Nissan Dealer? Click Here to Become A "Supporting Dealer" and Start Listing Your 370Zs In Our Inventory Section My Monterey Blue Z ll My Exhaust --> My Intake --> G3 Nissan's Official Response Regarding Oil Temp Issue: CLICK HERE Need a Set of Cheap Winter wheels /Tires? Then Visit The Banner Link Below and Place Your Order. You'll Help Keep The370Z Alive.

04-13-2009, 09:47 AM	#11 (permalink)
AK370Z Administrator Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: NJ Posts: 9,930 Drives: 09 370Z MB Sports M6 Rep Power: 10	updated post 2 and 3 with new info. BTW, 370Z is car of the week at Edmunds! __________________ The370Z Signature Pictures ll Want to rock our forum decals on your car? Then click here! ll How to Embed YouTube Videos In a Post STOP! (Hammertime) ll Become a Premium Member Click HERE ll F.A.Q. Are You a Nissan Dealer? Click Here to Become A "Supporting Dealer" and Start Listing Your 370Zs In Our Inventory Section My Monterey Blue Z ll My Exhaust --> My Intake --> G3 Nissan's Official Response Regarding Oil Temp Issue: CLICK HERE Need a Set of Cheap Winter wheels /Tires? Then Visit The Banner Link Below and Place Your Order. You'll Help Keep The370Z Alive.

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03-30-2009, 11:27 AM	#10 (permalink)
Evolved Base Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: PA Posts: 66 Drives: Evo VIII Rep Power: 204	Nice, thanks for the updates.

04-13-2009, 10:26 AM	#12 (permalink)
FricFrac A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Victoria, BC Posts: 1,481 Drives: 370Z 300ZX 280ZX 240 Rep Power: 229	"but the only thing I'm going to see back there is you power sliding into a Dutch Elm while I pull away" (in reference to the Mustang) ROFLMA - sounds excatly like the smack talk at the track with the boys Kinda like when I was harassing a buddy about the paint job on his hood "well its not gonna matter - all you are gonna see is the back end of my car anyhow" "Yea that's right - as I put you down another lap" :P ...ah smack talk and pit racing...

04-13-2009, 11:16 AM	#13 (permalink)
Endgame A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Phoenix Posts: 1,613 Drives: Nothing Now! Rep Power: 224	Again, I must ask.... Is the Z's engine really that bad???