You have a valid point. The automotive unions are an example of union principles gone bad.
If only I could have made that much when I drove a forklift back in 95

We got the "higher paid", but missed the "more educated" part. :D

very close to the G37 but $12,000 less and with more comfortable seats

-- just saying

Don't be bitter over their naturally aspirated $30K car makes almost 90% of the power the GT-R makes without sounding like a leaf-blower on steroids. This is just a wake-up call for Nissan. It's time to get with the program. In the late 90's, 330hp was "cool". Now, even econo/Korean companies are 100 past it.

If this engine were in the 370Z, I would rush out and buy one tomorrow. It isn't. I'm not. Probably going to buy a 'vette if the 2011 model Z doesn't have 385+bhp, which I doubt it will. I just don't think anything less than 400bhp is very competative anymore unless you're in highschool. Even then it's a bit weak. 500bhp is the new 350bhp. 2001----->2011. Evolve.

:facepalm:

332bhp in 2011 would indeed be a facepalm move in a $35-40K sports car.

I'm not disagreeing with everything said, but power is not the "be all, end all" with sports cars. I know you like to drag race, so I can see where you're coming from, but the Miata makes barely more than it once did, and it's a favorite track toy. 330 hp ain't bad, especially for a 3200lbs. vehicle.

No, I am face palming your horrible post, if power is all you want then you are on the wrong forum.

I discovered that. Test drove some 370's and LOVED! the quality. Nissan just needs an engine to go with the look/suspension/quality now, and they would have my $$$ in a heartbeat. The car is just boring unless you live in the mountains, and sadly I live in a place with flat/straight roads.

I understand on the track, hp isn't such a big deal, but on the street, the 370Z felt boring to me. Maybe it's because I drove an LS1 car through college, but the car did a lot more for me sitting still or going (silently, and without rattles) over pot-holes on a bad road at 15mph than it did when I floored it.

The 370Z is a great daily driver, but it's not world class like the M3, Z06, or the 911 family. It doesn't cost as much, either. If $40K was the MOST I could spend, I would indeed buy a 370Z. However, considering cars that cost into the 60's, it kinda lost me. If it had 400hp, like I said, I would buy in a heartbeat.

You might sell a man a Z06 who can afford a 911TT, but you won't sell a man a 370Z when he can afford a Z06, is what I am getting at. It's locked itself into niche with its weak engine that is FAR below what the style/suspension limit it to.

Honestly, if Nissan could put out a 385+hp Z, that is all the excuse I would need. Love the car, hate the engine.

I guess he's never heard of cars like the Lotus Exige S. It's got only 218 hp so is must get smoked at the track if it were to run against a +500hp Mustang.

Ah, see I compare it right around the low end of the price point, around 30k vehicles. And right there, I feel that it stacks up pretty well, even if it lacks in power compared to some of the others.

Sorry, had a 13 second car, and my daily commute is not an SCCA lay-out in a parking-lot. Exige S :rolleyes:

It does great at 30K, but it would do great at 60K, too, if it came with some power. I am looking at cars in the $40-$65K segment--right about what you can get a 1LZ Z06 for. GM quality...meh. However, being beaten by some punk in a stock nearly 15 year-old GM pony-car is MEH!

I like the 370Z's look better than the GT-R's by far, it even sits lower/looks more sleek without the kiddie seats, and I want to drive the car--not the other way around. If they made an intermediate car with more power, no hyper-expensive auto/AWD, I bet it would sell like crazy, stealing base 'vette and P-car sales like candy.

Not really. That 15-yr-old GM pony-car is just that, 15 yrs old. Good chance that it's run down, it has outdated tech, etc. Let's also not forget what performance bargains those cars were, even for their day.

Just because it's not the fastest conceivable car doesn't imply that it can't be fun and fast enough to enjoy.

Also, I think a key component that may be lacking when you drive it is torque. Being a variable valve engine, it makes no real power in the low rev range. GM/Ford v8's give you power all over the rev range. Not necessarily better, but different, and you definitely feel it with more torque.

Buy a Z and a TT or SC kit.

I flogged the 370Z I test-drove. To be honest with you, it felt great at every RPM--at least as great as 332bhp could feel. It didn't feel like I had to thrash it to get anything out of it, the gearing was awesome, and I would have sworn it had way more torque than the numbers indicate.

Yes, my 2001 Ws6 was run-down. Not by any fault of mine, but because GM used the cheapest components they could to get a pony-car with a 'vette motor out the door. 4-cylinder rear-end from an S10 pickup, etc.

What do you mean by "outdated tech", though? Yes, it had an SRA, but IRS would have bumped the price-tag up. The tech wasn't out-dated but economized, in that aspect.

The engine was an LS1, making around 300whp and 310-320wtq while returning an observed 27.5mpg highway and around 21mpg on my daily commute.

The transmission was the T56 6-speed.

The only thing that you could argue was "out-dated" was the SRA, which we already discussed.

I just don't see enough of an upgrade to the 370Z other than "The 370 is new and not ratty, and the F-body is older, and ratty".

BTDT with heavily modded cars. No thanks. I want to drive it from the dealer to the tint-shop and be done with it. All those mods kill re-sale, destroy warranty, and last I checked, noone knows how to tune them anyway. Stillen was getting junk numbers in customer cars, and the Greddy kits produce crazy jagged power-curves indicative of someone not knowing how to get the VVT technology to mesh with the kit. A car with a mod like that is just a nightmare from a practicality standpoint in my experience.

Besides, why should I have to do it when GM gives me 450whp stock? Why can't Nissan offer me at least 400 at the flywheel?

That is like me telling you to go buy a Corvette, and spring for $15K worth of Caravagio interior so it will be "classy" inside. How would you feel about that? I think you would tell me to go pound sand.

oh, no, you've got me wrong. When I'm referring to outdated tech, I'm much more referring to amenities, computer aids, rather than performance. In fact, I can break down my purchasing decision eloquently as: "2000 911, 2005 Vette, 2010 Z". The Z was fresh off the truck, has keyless stuff. I mean, half the 911's in that range still had cassette players.

Guess I should yell at my car it should not be running right.
You are looking at the wrong car, you talk about cars in the 60k range and then bring in the Z.

By your added statement, you are definitely looking at the wrong car.
Nissan has a car that does that and then some, GT-R.

Gotcha. I am not a big "tech" guy. I work in a hospital and don't even carry a smart-phone, if that tells you how low-tech I am. Nav system? No thanks. As long as the sterio is decent and it has keyless entry and push-button start, we are G2G! Heck, roll-up windows would be fine.

The GT-R just doesn't do it for me. The lazy automatic transmission and the heavy curb-weight, etc.

You are right, I am looking at hte wrong car with the 370Z, but 400bhp would make it the right car. IT frustrates me. EVERYTHING about it is perfect but for the weak paint, and the weak engine.

How much did you spend to make your car run right? Exactly how much horsepower is it making? How much did it cost to upgrade the driveline/tires/etc. so that you can put it to the ground without it breaking, and without just blowing the tires off?

ImportConvert, I was polite in the thread that you started but I'm starting to get the feeling that you're trolling. If you are not interested in or will not own a 370 maybe you should head back to LS1Tech.com.

I'll never understand why everyone on this forum is so sensitive when anyone says something negative about the 370...

I'm not sensitive at all. I actually gave him some input and had a convo with him on his original thread. I understand the flaws of the 370 thoroughly but this thread looks like it's heading towards the gutter.

not necessarily directed at you, just in general. Several members have been in here overreacting...

Exactly. I love the car and would buy it in a heartbeat over a corvette. I am more wishing than knocking the car. Yes, I am knocking Nissan for producing the weakest sports car in it's class by 100whp, but the car itself is very nice. If Nissan evolved its powerplant a little, I would buy.

Here is the problem:

My Ws6 was paid for and put 300whp to the ground.
I have no twisties where I live.
I don't care about Nav systems and heated seats.

Why pay $600/mo just so I can enjoy a newer car with features I don't care about that won't do anything my WS6 wouldn't do, when I can pay $950 a month for a Z06 that will do WORLDS more than my WS6 ever dreamed of?

$350 a month isn't a big deal.

HOWEVER---the Z06 isn't as "solid" feeling as the 370Z. It does't have nearly the nice interior (seat support? What support...) as the 370Z. I could give up 100whp and the $350 more a month note for the much nicer experience of the 370Z, but I can't give up $600 a month for the nicer experience of the Z over the identically performing WS6 that I owned free and clear.

_________________

The question:

Why can't Nissan put a brawnier engine in the car? I understand weight/V8, but Porsche pulls 385hp out of their 6-cylinder. Porsche followed Nissan's lead from the GT-R with all the DCT, torque sensing diff, etc. and incorporated it into the 911TT. Why can't Nissan follow Prosche's lead with regard to engine smoothness/output?

Again, if they offered a 400bhp 370 for $45K, I would buy. Not knocking the car at all, I just can't see why Nissan stuck would could be a world-class sports car into the pony-car class by virtue of its powerplant when the style/suspension/interior all reek of a $50K+ car.

____________________________

I am stuck with:

Spend $600 a month more than you used to for the same thing in a different (albeit nicer) wrapper.

-or-

Spend $950 a month for something most people only dream about, that does 0-60 in under 4 seconds, lapped the 'ring without overheating (and in record time at one point), and still gets 24mpg with a 100K mile warranty to boot.

No problem Dan. I just had to see a thread go to crap because a few people want to argue about automotive superiority.

ImportConvert, many of us have chosen the Z for a ton of reasons, power being just one. There's no need to argue about the power output. It is what it is and apparently everyone who bought one wasn't put off enough by the stock output to NOT purchase the vehicle.

I can completely understand it. If you have just spent considerable money on a car, or are considering dropping it, or are just a big fan of it, there may be some emotional bond there.

I'm a performance car enthusiast, so I'm not afraid to admit that my car has flaws or that others are faster. But I could definitely see why this car inspires emotional connection.

Very true. The same can be said for all the F-bodies on the road and their interior. They outsold the Z by a wide margin and still got the chopping block.

My point is, Nissan shoved a $20K car's engine into a $50K car, while GM shoved a $50K car's engine into a $20K car. Coming from GM's $50K car engine to Nissan's $20K car engine isn't made up for by the "intangibles" in my case.

I can only day-dream that they offer an engine that matches the rest of the car. If they do, I will buy.

That being said, I used to make fun of the Z's when the 350 was around. The 370 is completely different and other than the engine, I have nothing ill to say of them. They difinitely inspire a connection!

You say the intangibles aren't important, but you are complaining about the Z06 seats? May be you need a value reset, the Z has trade-offs, the Z06 has trade-offs. If you can find a car that has the features and "intangibles" of the Z with the performance of the Z06, you should buy it, bit I'm guessing you are not in the market for a Ferrari 458.

The Z is a great car at the $30-$40K price point.

Yes, the Mustang is a great car for cheaper, and has more power (nice BIG engine). But given greater displacement, of course it can be more powerful. Looking at specific output, the Z puts out more (89hp/L versus 82hp/L - hopefully I did the math correct in my head; correct me if I'm wrong). But I wouldn't buy one, even if it's cheaper - the live axle doesn't do it for me. For straight line driving - sure. But I like the twisties (even the on-ramps! :driving: ).

If this Gen Coupe pushes more power than a GT, I'll be looking for a chance to take it for a spin.

I'd argue that the Porsche six cylinder is the $50K engine, NOT the Mustangs. I agree: the Porsche Carrera S has 385hp, but I'm not gonna drop the $90K+ dough for it.

Again, at $30-$40K, the Z is a great car. ImportConvert, you've admitted that. But it's clear you want more power and don't want to mod it. It'll be interesting to see if Nissan does drop a 8cyl engine into the Z (or a turbocharged six). I'm sure it'll be great. But until then, why are we even having this discussion? :icon14:

And yes, I'd drive a 458 in a heartbeat. But I ain't gonna buy one.

I could come in here and post specifics about how the live axle is just as good as the 370's IRS in the twisties, but instead, I'll just wave :hello: to a fellow market guy. :tup:

I think the fundamental problem of the 370Z is a matter of timing. Nissan could not have picked a worse time than early 2009 to release a new sports car. Considering overall car sales were down nearly 40% on average, two seater discretionary vehicles at the 30k price point were going to get creamed even more.

In 2008 it would have been competitive. Things all went pear shaped though with the arrival of the new Camaro, Genesis Coupe, and most importantly of all the 2011 5.0L Mustang GT. Z fans may say that they are not really comparable but they most certainly are. The majority of people shop on a budget will compare equivalently priced vehicles even if stylistically they are somewhat different. The 332 hp from the 3.7L V6 is still respectable and better than the competition, but the competition is considerably cheaper and two of the three are packing 400+ hp V8's.

I agree with the earlier post in that the biggest hindrance to the 370Z lies in the engine which may or may not be deliberate. If the engine is upgraded, it diminishes from Nissan's halo car, the GT-R. To keep the vehicle competitive with the other vehicles given Nissan's desired pricing, the 370Z will need an engine upgrade within one or two years at the most.

To keep the Z and the GT-R both on track, both will need engine upgrades soon. The VQ-37HR will need to be downsized to a smaller displacement direct injected turbocharged engine. The VQ engines have gotten coarser as they have grown and Nissan needs to realize that this is a problem. Downsizing to a 3.5 or even a 3.0L with direct injection and even a single twin scroll turbo can yield equivalent or better power than presently with better fuel economy. A scaled down VR series engine would be beastly, but it maybe too expensive.

The GT-R will need to head in the opposite direction to keep competitive. Given it's portly weight, the 3.8L V6 will simply not be enough as there is a limit to how much power you can squeeze from it and it really should move up to a twin turbo V8 to retain its supercar status and differentiate itself from the souped up Z.

I am. My pay-check isn't.

:icon18:

So basically you want the 458 Italia performace with a Nissan badge for $30k? Sign me up!

If you compare the performance of the 370 against exotics from say a few decades ago, they do match or exceed them. You will have to wait a while before the Z catches up to 458 levels however. It the end, drive what makes you happy. If you only plan on going real fast in a straight line, going with American muscle is probably better suited.

On a separate note, I can't believe people still downplay how well the GT-R performs. To get the 370Z to GT-R levels will push your budget beyond what it cost to purchase a GT-R.

The GT-R is one of those cars that makes you ask, "how?" Yes they are big, yes they are heavy, but hot damn somehow they figured out how to bend the laws of physics. It's an impressive car, and it's VERY beastly when modded. AAM has a street driven GT-R that's going to make a run at a 9 second quarter mile in the next couple of weeks.

I fail to see how that is somehow special? Most supercars run 10's stock, or have at least 1 recorded 10-second pass somewhere on the books. Sounds like any number of local imports around here.

Anyway, the reason I would never own a GT-R is the sluggish auto, the weight, and the fact that I want to drive the car--even if the computer can do it better.

So you are saying the 370Z is equal to a 458 in all but engine? I think we have gone too far now...

no, not at all. Far from it. I'm just saying, it takes time for sports car to "evolve". It sounds like thats what you want. An exotic supercar you can afford.

You've obvoiuslly got your mind set on something, so why bother with this meaningless conjecture. Good night.

Very well put and I couldn't agree more. Nissan needs to downsize the engine of the Z and go back to FI. My next car will be a Corvette unless Nissan gets back to FI. Don't get me wrong, I love my 370z, but being only 2 years old I feel it's outdated in the performance area considering the 5.0 and whats on the horizon.

As for the GTR I disagree slightly. I think they would do better shrinking the cars size and weight rather than messing with the engine. The motor is quite capable of going into the 600hp range in the future but they would do better making the car smaller and lighter. There is no need for the GTR to be as massive as it is.