By the time this thing comes out, some of us (like me lol) will have 600hp in our 370's.
(Come on Top Secret...we're waiting!)

I don't think there is a point in having a friendly competition when someone says my car is modded therefore it is better. Guy B might as well say "guess what? My Camaro is putting out 800 horsepower and also reduced weight!"

Stock specifications is where the fun and debate are at.

:iagree: Imagine if they sold what the people wanted to buy :eek:

But wait............. we need them to tell us what we want, don't we? :rolleyes:

Umm..I didnt say that to debate, I'm actually waiting on Top Secret. lol
Right now, my Z is ok, I need to modify it more so it suits me better. At any given time, even with a vehicle like the 370z which is not so popular in Japan, I have a rather wide range of options for quality JDM upgrades.

That is were the Z wins over the Genesis in my book. If I purchase a Genesis, even with 428hp stock, I'll have to sacrifice the things that truly make me happy (even more so than the car itself)...the fantastic upgrades from Top Secret, Amuse, Mines, Jun Mechanic, and all the other awesome Japanese tuners who are the reason why i'm here in the first place :tup:

you cant blame the government for that. infact blame GM. BLame the unions for making it hard for GM to make a regular small car and turn a profit on it. Blame GM for not making a product good enough where people would want to pay a little more, thus earning them a profit.

Its always easy to say "government fault... yep them. everything their fault etc etc"

and p.s.. they do make a profit off the regular stuff, just not as big of a margin.

I'll thank the unions for my 40 hr work weeks. overtime for anything over 40. extensive training programs. paid vacations. safety programs etc.. and lets not forget, the car manufacturers signed a collective bargaining agreement with the unions. The unions are not the problem here. People agreeing to work for peanuts in other factories make it appear that way.

I'm not blaming the Government for GM's past mistakes, just the future ones! :D Seriously, union compensaion over the years plus the recession is what's killed GM. You can't compete in the $12K car market if your labor costs are $1500 more than your competition's. That let's your competion have an extra $1500 to improve their product. You have to go up to more expensive SUV's, etc because it reduces the percentage of cost due to labor per vehicle. Past compensation practices weakened GM's ability to survive the recession.

That all works as long as everyone is bound by the same rules. What craps the system is when overseas competition came in and could spend less on labor and more on product development and production per unit. The outcome is inevitable.

You don't want a guy with a 10th grade education driving a forklift making $85,000 a year? What's wrong with you :rolleyes: ;)

yea damn overseas competition. i would never buy a car made overseas!


but really, its true. if other companies are not bound by the same rules because they are under governmental regulations, its hard to compete. However, ultimately, a car made by higher paid, more educated people should be more well made. unfortunately, that isn't necessarily true.

You have a valid point. The automotive unions are an example of union principles gone bad.
If only I could have made that much when I drove a forklift back in 95

We got the "higher paid", but missed the "more educated" part. :D

very close to the G37 but $12,000 less and with more comfortable seats

-- just saying

Don't be bitter over their naturally aspirated $30K car makes almost 90% of the power the GT-R makes without sounding like a leaf-blower on steroids. This is just a wake-up call for Nissan. It's time to get with the program. In the late 90's, 330hp was "cool". Now, even econo/Korean companies are 100 past it.

If this engine were in the 370Z, I would rush out and buy one tomorrow. It isn't. I'm not. Probably going to buy a 'vette if the 2011 model Z doesn't have 385+bhp, which I doubt it will. I just don't think anything less than 400bhp is very competative anymore unless you're in highschool. Even then it's a bit weak. 500bhp is the new 350bhp. 2001----->2011. Evolve.

:facepalm: