Shifting 1st to 2nd

rmorrow · 06-07-2010, 09:21 PM

Can someone shed some light on a minor snafu I am having. I have driven MT's for many years...actually learned at age 14 in my grandfather's old Mercury.
For some reason, I am having occasional issues achieving smooth shifts between 1st and 2nd gears. Every other shift is silky smooth. 1st to 2nd is "lurchy"...
I notice that if I clutch in and out verrrrry slowly and throttle up slowly I can smooth it out a bunch, but it really wears me out. Is it me, or does anyone else experience a finicky 1st to 2nd shift? I love my new 370 Z. I really believe that this is just a normal issue with the 370Z maybe? I never grind any gears...I just fight the "lurch" from 1st to 2nd.

theDreamer · 06-07-2010, 09:24 PM

1 to 2 on the 350 and now the 370 seems to be an inherit "feature" of the transmission.
It will take sometime, but after awhile you will find that smooth transition that works for you, I know it took me months.

PapoZalsa · 06-07-2010, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theDreamer

1 to 2 on the 350 and now the 370 seems to be an inherit "feature" of the transmission.
It will take sometime, but after awhile you will find that smooth transition that works for you, I know it took me months.

Beat me to it. Both transmissions act almost exactly.

rmorrow · 06-07-2010, 09:36 PM

Thanks for the feedback. At least I know now that it is a somewhat normal issue. I will get used to it. If anyone can speed the process for me with a suggestion, please let me have it. I will experiment with shifting at higher and lower RPM's, as well as clutch speed and throttle.

errett · 06-07-2010, 10:02 PM

For me, slow = smooth between 1st and 2nd.

E

Jeffblue · 06-07-2010, 10:08 PM

Someone one here mentioned once 'a little bit of gas at the engagement point' when shifting. that idea has helped me totally smooth out my shift from 1st-2nd. If you are shifting at a lower RPM, which you probably are right now since you most likely just got the car (3 posts) push in the clutch just a bit slower than you think you should, and you can let it out quick until RIGHT before the engagement point. Then a very little bit of gas as you smoothly come off the clutch. You know how to shift already, just imagine trying to do everything absolutely perfectly, and that what you have to do to get a perfect shift from 1 to 2. it will come naturally once you drive the car for a bit. Take every stop sign, stop light etc as an opportunity to practice your N-1-2. I stop at every stop sign in my Z just to see how smoothly i can get it

rj45 · 06-07-2010, 10:22 PM

During normal driving, I've found that if I push the clutch pedal in a bit faster than I would normally, my total shift timing is more conducive to smoother shifts (note..I let the clutch out at my normal rate). Since the clutch pedal effort is so light, pushing the pedal quickly is easy. Shift smoothness is all about timing...throttle, clutch and shifter. I'd rather push the clutch in more quickly than be more aggressive with the shift lever...why put added stress on the syncros, I say.

Driving a manual Z is not difficult, but driving/shifting it super smoothly is somewhat challenging. First and foremost, the clutch pedal is too light and short on feel. Then there's the built-in throttle float which doesn't help. Lastly, the e-throttle could be a bit more aggressive...getting the desired engine response takes a bit too much pedal throw.

Another tip...when lifting off the throttle between shifts, don't take your foot off the throttle pedal. Try to keep it in contact with the pedal. This will improve throttle timing when you reapply throttle.

40th370z · 06-07-2010, 10:26 PM

I've found unless I 'm pushing higher revs 5k+ the lurch is there unless I'm slow with clutch/gas an really low RPMs....try going from 1st to 3rd.... no lurch,no problem

Red370 · 06-07-2010, 10:49 PM

the engage point is kinda funky on the clutch, once you get used to it, the smoothness should come.

kenchan · 06-07-2010, 11:03 PM

your 1st gear engagement from standstill has a lot of influence of how much more or less control you need between the 1-2 shift.

engage 1st from about 1.8-2k rpm. that makes the car wind up smoother in 1st so it's easier to level off the throttle to prepare for 2nd gear. clutch-in, slightly apply gas to keep the flywheel in the positive momentum and engage clutch gently. there should be no slip into 2nd gear. good luck.

Jeffblue · 06-07-2010, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenchan

your 1st gear engagement from standstill has a lot of influence of how much more or less control you need between the 1-2 shift.

engage 1st from about 1.8-2k rpm. that makes the car wind up smoother in 1st so it's easier to level off the throttle to prepare for 2nd gear. clutch-in, slightly apply gas to keep the flywheel in the positive momentum and engage clutch gently. there should be no slip into 2nd gear. good luck.

you engage your clutch for 1st gear at 1.8-2k? aren't you burning your clutch doing that? I engage around 1k 1.5 tops in normal driving. I specifically try and avoid reving above 1.5k from a stand still in normal driving. am i wrong?

nicknick · 06-08-2010, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffblue

you engage your clutch for 1st gear at 1.8-2k? aren't you burning your clutch doing that? I engage around 1k 1.5 tops in normal driving. I specifically try and avoid reving above 1.5k from a stand still in normal driving. am i wrong?

No you're not wrong. 1.8 to 2k is high and will prematurely wear out the clutch.

kenchan · 06-08-2010, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffblue

you engage your clutch for 1st gear at 1.8-2k? aren't you burning your clutch doing that? I engage around 1k 1.5 tops in normal driving. I specifically try and avoid reving above 1.5k from a stand still in normal driving. am i wrong?

That's the rpm when I have the clutch all the way in. Then the rpm drops as the car picksup momentum. So the full engagement point is lower but not by much.

Engaging into 1st is not a competition of how low you can go. Heck I can engage 1st with zero throttle input and still get the car to go, but depending on traffic and how quickly i want to accelerate, the rpm will vary. On my G I usually engage 1.5K range and its fine, but on the z, I engage much higher. Give it a shot.

And no, unless you're riding the clutch (dragging the engagement for a long duration like 5seconds) its not going to burn it out. A lot of newbs worry about this but it actually takes quite a bit to burn out a clutch.

Jeffblue · 06-08-2010, 08:38 AM

cool thanks. i mean. i'm sure its better to neither over nor under rev upon engaging the clutch, but thats impossible. i've been under the impression that any amount i rev over 1.5k is just wearing out the clutch so i have been really anal about not doing that, but its nice to know that its not that big of a deal.

Nick911sc · 06-08-2010, 08:45 AM

Nah man, don't worry about burning the clutch on normal driving based on the RPMs unless you're REALLY holding it at the friction point. Since your shifting through gears vs a initial launch where you feather the clutch it shouldn't be an issue. If you think about it. When shifting through the gears you're only on the friction point for such a short time since the clutch is being led out smoothly without much pause compared to holding the friction point during N-1.

06-07-2010, 09:21 PM	#1 (permalink)
rmorrow Base Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Houston Posts: 79 Drives: 2010 370z Sports MT Rep Power: 15	Shifting 1st to 2nd Can someone shed some light on a minor snafu I am having. I have driven MT's for many years...actually learned at age 14 in my grandfather's old Mercury. For some reason, I am having occasional issues achieving smooth shifts between 1st and 2nd gears. Every other shift is silky smooth. 1st to 2nd is "lurchy"... I notice that if I clutch in and out verrrrry slowly and throttle up slowly I can smooth it out a bunch, but it really wears me out. Is it me, or does anyone else experience a finicky 1st to 2nd shift? I love my new 370 Z. I really believe that this is just a normal issue with the 370Z maybe? I never grind any gears...I just fight the "lurch" from 1st to 2nd.

06-07-2010, 09:24 PM	#2 (permalink)
theDreamer A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 30,879 Drives: 370z Rep Power: 4210	1 to 2 on the 350 and now the 370 seems to be an inherit "feature" of the transmission. It will take sometime, but after awhile you will find that smooth transition that works for you, I know it took me months. __________________ theDreamer's Z // Fast Intentions // Uprev // GTM // HKS // TEIN theDreamer's Silvia // URAS // GREDDY Houston Zs // Facebook // Twitter // Instagram

06-07-2010, 10:22 PM	#7 (permalink)
rj45 Base Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: USA Posts: 60 Drives: 40th Anniversary Z Rep Power: 15	During normal driving, I've found that if I push the clutch pedal in a bit faster than I would normally, my total shift timing is more conducive to smoother shifts (note..I let the clutch out at my normal rate). Since the clutch pedal effort is so light, pushing the pedal quickly is easy. Shift smoothness is all about timing...throttle, clutch and shifter. I'd rather push the clutch in more quickly than be more aggressive with the shift lever...why put added stress on the syncros, I say. Driving a manual Z is not difficult, but driving/shifting it super smoothly is somewhat challenging. First and foremost, the clutch pedal is too light and short on feel. Then there's the built-in throttle float which doesn't help. Lastly, the e-throttle could be a bit more aggressive...getting the desired engine response takes a bit too much pedal throw. Another tip...when lifting off the throttle between shifts, don't take your foot off the throttle pedal. Try to keep it in contact with the pedal. This will improve throttle timing when you reapply throttle. Last edited by rj45; 06-07-2010 at 10:34 PM.

06-07-2010, 10:49 PM	#9 (permalink)
Red370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Kaiserslautern, Germany Posts: 4,391 Drives: your mom to church Rep Power: 296	the engage point is kinda funky on the clutch, once you get used to it, the smoothness should come. __________________ 2011 Mustang 5.0 \| 3.55's \| Lethal Performance off road H-Pipe \| Magnaflow Muffler Delete \| JLT CAI/Bama tuned 417whp/ 404 ft/lbs

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06-07-2010, 09:36 PM	#4 (permalink)
rmorrow Base Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Houston Posts: 79 Drives: 2010 370z Sports MT Rep Power: 15	Thanks for the feedback. At least I know now that it is a somewhat normal issue. I will get used to it. If anyone can speed the process for me with a suggestion, please let me have it. I will experiment with shifting at higher and lower RPM's, as well as clutch speed and throttle.

06-07-2010, 10:02 PM	#5 (permalink)
errett Base Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Maumelle, AR Posts: 149 Drives: Z34 10 0111 Rep Power: 15	For me, slow = smooth between 1st and 2nd. E

06-07-2010, 10:08 PM	#6 (permalink)
Jeffblue A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: NY Age: 36 Posts: 9,192 Drives: Z32TT & 335xi Coupe Rep Power: 37	Someone one here mentioned once 'a little bit of gas at the engagement point' when shifting. that idea has helped me totally smooth out my shift from 1st-2nd. If you are shifting at a lower RPM, which you probably are right now since you most likely just got the car (3 posts) push in the clutch just a bit slower than you think you should, and you can let it out quick until RIGHT before the engagement point. Then a very little bit of gas as you smoothly come off the clutch. You know how to shift already, just imagine trying to do everything absolutely perfectly, and that what you have to do to get a perfect shift from 1 to 2. it will come naturally once you drive the car for a bit. Take every stop sign, stop light etc as an opportunity to practice your N-1-2. I stop at every stop sign in my Z just to see how smoothly i can get it

06-07-2010, 10:26 PM	#8 (permalink)
40th370z Base Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Canada Posts: 134 Drives: 2010-370z-40th Ann. Rep Power: 297	I've found unless I 'm pushing higher revs 5k+ the lurch is there unless I'm slow with clutch/gas an really low RPMs....try going from 1st to 3rd.... no lurch,no problem

06-07-2010, 11:03 PM	#10 (permalink)
kenchan A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: N/A Posts: 76,801 Drives: N/A Rep Power: 141521	your 1st gear engagement from standstill has a lot of influence of how much more or less control you need between the 1-2 shift. engage 1st from about 1.8-2k rpm. that makes the car wind up smoother in 1st so it's easier to level off the throttle to prepare for 2nd gear. clutch-in, slightly apply gas to keep the flywheel in the positive momentum and engage clutch gently. there should be no slip into 2nd gear. good luck.

06-08-2010, 08:38 AM	#14 (permalink)
Jeffblue A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: NY Age: 36 Posts: 9,192 Drives: Z32TT & 335xi Coupe Rep Power: 37	cool thanks. i mean. i'm sure its better to neither over nor under rev upon engaging the clutch, but thats impossible. i've been under the impression that any amount i rev over 1.5k is just wearing out the clutch so i have been really anal about not doing that, but its nice to know that its not that big of a deal.

06-08-2010, 08:45 AM	#15 (permalink)
Nick911sc A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Long Island, New York Posts: 1,698 Drives: 2010 Nissan GT-R Rep Power: 20	Nah man, don't worry about burning the clutch on normal driving based on the RPMs unless you're REALLY holding it at the friction point. Since your shifting through gears vs a initial launch where you feather the clutch it shouldn't be an issue. If you think about it. When shifting through the gears you're only on the friction point for such a short time since the clutch is being led out smoothly without much pause compared to holding the friction point during N-1.