Went to a chevy dealership today...

Zsteve · 05-29-2010, 09:10 AM

I see young people (30s) and women driving Vettes. Ive looked inside the new Vette thur the window as the doors were locked and the interior looked to be pretty well made, I cant see it being worse than the Zs interior quality wise, while the 370Z has improved its interior over the 350Z, its far from being top of the line compared to others of comparable types of cars, quality wise.

UNKNOWN_370 · 05-29-2010, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmoothZ

That's my biggest beef about the Camaro. It looks like a boat. I actually prefer the Challenger over the Camaro because it looks better, seems to reflect the original lines of the historical car, and doesn't look like it's been squished down the middle and bulging out the side.

I happen to like the camaro alot. Looks are completely subjective. But in my opinion. The camaro a G ride. Its the kinda car that says "u kno wat? I don't giv a fu*k!" I rented twice so far. 2SS/auto/moonroof. The 2SS is a nice car. I couldn't do a 1SS for nothin. Night and day interiors though I feel the 2SS can still use a few extra higher quality bits for its 36k-43k price tag. On my journeys in the camaro I got nearly 23 mpg's. Eibachs spring n sway set up has been proven to increase gas mileage by 13%. Eibach or KW3 suspensions dramatically increase performance on the camaro. In my opinion, the camaro is a great modders car. With true results after modding. Bolt ons alone bring the car from a 13 second car to a 11.9 second car on the quarter. As I mentioned before. Its biggest weakness is its incredible width. On the flipside it has impeccable handling so combine that with true driving skills and the camaro is a winner. It just needs the suspension mods "No Question".
As far as the vette. Its gotta be the GS. Any other base vette is worthless. The GS adds 4k to the price but pretty much gives it Z06ish handling. Kannibul if u go for the vette? Bust your butt on a GS deal. Oh see if u can rent one from hertz or an exotic shop. Spend a whole day in it. See if its really what you want before giving up the Z. In the long term, the Z may provide more overall fun???

The camaro and corvette are and definately will be very common cars. Exclusivity is overrated in the car world. I mean, nobody wants mustang commonality, but when something stirs your soul, you just gotta do it.
Slightly off the subject... what angers me about mustang is, they only update sheetmatal but keep raising prices on the car. They take the same engine and make the most minor of updates for like 20 years (up until 2011). And they still using live axle. I can't believe they get over 25k for a GT. Its ridiculous. 2011 is a much better car. But if the 2012 mustang has a live. Axle. Somebody please... blow up the plant. Lol.

No one blow up the plant. Its just a figure of speech. Lol

shadoquad · 05-29-2010, 10:03 AM

^^

In the end, you're right, Unknown. It's a subjective thing. Commonality may not matter to people. For me, it wears out a design. Not because the design is unattractive, but because I get used to seeing it so often. I don't think the Camaro is ugly. It does look a little big. But what I couldn't get over was how big it felt when I was driving it. For some drivers, that might be the reason to choose it over a Z. For me, the opposite.

I feel you on the Mustang's evolution up to this year. It's like the last 15-20 years of Mustang history should be thrown on the fire (with a few notable exceptions). I'm glad to see they're getting it back in the game, though.

370Zsteve · 05-29-2010, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrcardio

Well the MPG you see from Car & Driver and other magazine tester’s is a result of constant flogging of the vehicle. It's the same with pretty much any car they test. The Vette gets commendable MPG because of it's great power to weight ratio but of course you're going to get **** MPG if you drive like a mad man everywhere just like any other vehicle.

Older folks drive vettes? So what, why let stereotypes push you away from having a really nice sports car? And even though the design is a bit old it still looks fantastic in my opinion and I would think most people think the same if you happen to be worried about what others think. The only thing I’d be worry about is the insurance; I hear it’s quite high for vettes.

First, let me just say I love Corvettes. And you are spot on about the high insurance costs. Agreed, C&D will flog the vehicle, but that's not happening constantly. And my opinion is that we flog the vehicle on occasion as well, so I usually agree with C&D's "observed mpg" numbers.

370Zsteve · 05-29-2010, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carbonguy

FWIW, I purchased my 09 Z06 (now traded) in March 09 for $13K under MSRP. Not sure what the current market, but deals can still be had.

Carbonguy...you traded the Vette for the Z? If so, give Kannibul your opinion of both!

370Zsteve · 05-29-2010, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmoothZ

That's my biggest beef about the Camaro. It looks like a boat. I actually prefer the Challenger over the Camaro because it looks better, seems to reflect the original lines of the historical car, and doesn't look like it's been squished down the middle and bulging out the side.

I agree on the looks of the Challenger, it's gorgeous. Yet all the comparos are trashing it's brutal handling. You'd think the company that makes the Viper could have made the car go around a corner

UNKNOWN_370 · 05-29-2010, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadoquad

^^

In the end, you're right, Unknown. It's a subjective thing. Commonality may not matter to people. For me, it wears out a design. Not because the design is unattractive, but because I get used to seeing it so often. I don't think the Camaro is ugly. It does look a little big. But what I couldn't get over was how big it felt when I was driving it. For some drivers, that might be the reason to choose it over a Z. For me, the opposite.

I feel you on the Mustang's evolution up to this year. It's like the last 15-20 years of Mustang history should be thrown on the fire (with a few notable exceptions). I'm glad to see they're getting it back in the game, though.

I totally feel you on the size thing. I generally prefer cars like the Z due to weight and size. The camaro felt exactly the same way when I test drove it last year. Huge. I was dead set against the camaro as a sports entry. Then I decided to rent one. My reason was this. Car mags keep praisin it and due to my test drive... I didn't see it. But once I got 12 straight hours of driving in a camaro. I saw exactly what the car mags were saying.
The Z is a different breed so I won't compare as one experience being better than the other. I will just call them different. What I can say is, after a few hours the camaro doesn't feel as big as it does on the test drive. And without a salesguy in the passenger seat, you can really feel what that L99 can do. Its incredible.

kannibul · 05-29-2010, 02:34 PM

I made the trade yesterday. Sadly, I have a bitter taste over it, because after I'd signed the papers, and was going through my final "before you drive it off the lot" examination - I found swirl marks, and wanted them corrected, which they said they'd do...

They brought it back in worse condition - sure the swirl marks looked corrected, however it now had a couple of holograms and wax smears...which wasn't bad in an of itself...but apparently the kid manning the buffer ran the edge of said buffer into the passenger door, gouging the paint up. Dealer said they'd take care of it, and I trust that they will (I have a "we owe" ticket)...however, I told them I won't accept anything less than perfection, as I didn't buy a 50K car expecting anything other than perfect...and I told them to look over my Z if they have any questions on what my expectations are...

I called them again later...after I had a couple of hours of getting more sick feeling over it, bitched them out for about 10 minutes about how they left it up to me to find it, instead of admitting fault and so on, and what if I'd driven off the lot, and found it once I got home, call them up and they say "it was fine when you left...", and they said they may replace the door panel... We'll see, I guess.

The car is amazing, but the monkey's running the place...

kannibul · 05-29-2010, 02:37 PM

On the camaro, it felt like it had a boat anchor attached to it. Smoother ride though, but "felt" sluggish.

Vette to me feels more confident in turns - my big complaint about the Z was it's sharp ride, and when cornering over bumps (clover-leaf interchanges most notably), that you'd hit a bump and the rear would skip over towards the outside of the turn - here in Oklahoma, the roads are pretty poorly maintained on the interchanges...so, bumps are common...every 10ft or so. That leads to a lot of corrective steering, or, going well under the posted speed...

Once the vette is corrected, and I get to work with "knowing my Porter Cable" on another vehicle (3, actually, each with different levels of help) - I'll hit the vette with it and turn it into a black mirror.

shadoquad · 05-29-2010, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kannibul

I made the trade yesterday. Sadly, I have a bitter taste over it, because after I'd signed the papers, and was going through my final "before you drive it off the lot" examination - I found swirl marks, and wanted them corrected, which they said they'd do...

They brought it back in worse condition - sure the swirl marks looked corrected, however it now had a couple of holograms and wax smears...which wasn't bad in an of itself...but apparently the kid manning the buffer ran the edge of said buffer into the passenger door, gouging the paint up. Dealer said they'd take care of it, and I trust that they will (I have a "we owe" ticket)...however, I told them I won't accept anything less than perfection, as I didn't buy a 50K car expecting anything other than perfect...and I told them to look over my Z if they have any questions on what my expectations are...

I called them again later...after I had a couple of hours of getting more sick feeling over it, bitched them out for about 10 minutes about how they left it up to me to find it, instead of admitting fault and so on, and what if I'd driven off the lot, and found it once I got home, call them up and they say "it was fine when you left...", and they said they may replace the door panel... We'll see, I guess.

The car is amazing, but the monkey's running the place...

Sorry to hear about the inconvenience and incompetence, but I hope you'll snap and upload some photos of your new baby on here. I can't wait to see it!

SoCal 370Z · 05-29-2010, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kannibul

I made the trade yesterday. Sadly, I have a bitter taste over it, because after I'd signed the papers, and was going through my final "before you drive it off the lot" examination - I found swirl marks, and wanted them corrected, which they said they'd do...

I really think that this more buyer's remorse more than anything else...it's natural to undergo this. The other issues can be easily fixed. Congratulations!

Zsteve · 05-29-2010, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kannibul

On the camaro, it felt like it had a boat anchor attached to it. Smoother ride though, but "felt" sluggish.

Vette to me feels more confident in turns - my big complaint about the Z was it's sharp ride, and when cornering over bumps (clover-leaf interchanges most notably), that you'd hit a bump and the rear would skip over towards the outside of the turn - here in Oklahoma, the roads are pretty poorly maintained on the interchanges...so, bumps are common...every 10ft or so. That leads to a lot of corrective steering, or, going well under the posted speed...

Once the vette is corrected, and I get to work with "knowing my Porter Cable" on another vehicle (3, actually, each with different levels of help) - I'll hit the vette with it and turn it into a black mirror.

Im really curious as to what you think of the Vette after you have driven it a bit compared to the Z. Performance and the interior quality. Which did you get? How did the power feel compared to the Z. Also how was the trade in value, did they give you some for your mods?

kannibul · 05-29-2010, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zsteve

Im really curious as to what you think of the Vette after you have driven it a bit compared to the Z. Performance and the interior quality. Which did you get? How did the power feel compared to the Z. Also how was the trade in value, did they give you some for your mods?

OK, comparing the two...

Power...vette hands down. The comparison there is the same as when I drive my wife's civic and then would drive the Z. The vette flat out just puts a LOT the power to the ground...they let us test drive it just me and the wife, and when I punched it on an enterance ramp (1st through 2nd, into 3rd) she couldn't stop giggling for 2 minutes. She did the same thing with the Z but it's at most a 10-20 second deal...lol...

Handling wise, the vette is smoother/softer by a notable margin. I prefer this over the Z's immediacy...you hit a bump, you lose a filling with the Z...if you happen to be turning at the moment, you will lose traction...the vette is more forgiving in that it just sticks to the road.

I hate to say it but really the vette is closer in many ways to what I was expecting out of a sports/performance car than the Z.

That said, one area the Z seems to have the vette beat, is in brake feel...I had the sports package brakes, and you can stop that car in an insane level of quickness. I've not yet jumped hard on the brakes for the vette, so I can't tell you anything there, however, I can say they aren't as "immediate" feeling.

The vette I got was an LT1 - the bare-bottom vette.

Interior wise, the vette I think is a touch better just because I like the seats/seating position more - the door panels are "worse" in that they don't have the fake suede inserts that I liked, but the dual zone climate controls, and I hate to say it but the factory radio sounds a bit better than the bose one...or at least it will

Blind spots aren't anything to write home about, unlike how I lost a foxbody mustang off the passenger side of my Z at night...

Going from the sport/touring Z, to the LT1, there are three things I miss, 1) Mirror-garage door opener deally, 2) Bluetooth phone interface, and 3) 6-disk wma/mp3 reading cd changer.

So, here's my deal...I'm sure I'll get shreaded over this quite a lot, but, the bottom line is, I can always pay it off earlier...

I owed on my Z, 33834.74.

First night they came in at me with $31750 for trade in - sounds great, except they left the car at MSRP. I saw it on paper that another dealship offered 28K...so they were inflating that rather than decreasing the price on the vette. I made sure they noted the mods...so that's what got it. I guess they work off a "buy bid" from other dealerships...I dunno. Once I drove the vette, I was sold on it, it was just a matter of trying to work out the best deal in the end.

I had them redo the deal, and they did it at 23K, and knocked the Vette down to 43999...(so my TT&L will be less) - give me 2K to cover TT&L, tack on the difference betwen trade in value and what I owe, then there's a 3K cash-back incentive, and I added GAP coverage...

I'm financing the crap out it (facepalm 84mo @ 4.75%) - and I opted to get a warranty (84mo/56K miles) (I know GM can be hit or miss, and when they went over the factory warranty and that there are no goodwill repairs...), so I signed papers for around 56K...which works out to about 767/mo payment, which is $120-$130 more than what I was paying for the Z, which I really was liking less everytime I would drive it.

m4a1mustang · 05-29-2010, 04:28 PM

Damn, so unless you pay it off early you are paying $65k for a base 'Vette. Hope it's worth it!

shadoquad · 05-29-2010, 04:36 PM

84 months... *gulp*

Still, Vettes are awesome.

05-29-2010, 09:10 AM	#46 (permalink)
Zsteve A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: TX Posts: 3,298 Drives: the 2 balled club Rep Power: 22	I see young people (30s) and women driving Vettes. Ive looked inside the new Vette thur the window as the doors were locked and the interior looked to be pretty well made, I cant see it being worse than the Zs interior quality wise, while the 370Z has improved its interior over the 350Z, its far from being top of the line compared to others of comparable types of cars, quality wise. __________________ 2010 LS3 C6 Silver coupe corvette Last edited by Zsteve; 05-29-2010 at 09:18 AM.

05-29-2010, 04:28 PM	#59 (permalink)
m4a1mustang A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern VA Posts: 55,385 Drives: on two wheels Rep Power: 6962	Damn, so unless you pay it off early you are paying $65k for a base 'Vette. Hope it's worth it! __________________ - Steve Zs & Coffee - Saturdays at 10AM in Fairfax, VA and Columbia, MD (Click the banner!) LIKE us on Facebook!

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05-29-2010, 10:03 AM	#48 (permalink)
shadoquad A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: . Posts: 42,608 Drives: . Rep Power: 3886	^^ In the end, you're right, Unknown. It's a subjective thing. Commonality may not matter to people. For me, it wears out a design. Not because the design is unattractive, but because I get used to seeing it so often. I don't think the Camaro is ugly. It does look a little big. But what I couldn't get over was how big it felt when I was driving it. For some drivers, that might be the reason to choose it over a Z. For me, the opposite. I feel you on the Mustang's evolution up to this year. It's like the last 15-20 years of Mustang history should be thrown on the fire (with a few notable exceptions). I'm glad to see they're getting it back in the game, though.

05-29-2010, 02:34 PM	#53 (permalink)
kannibul A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Jenks, OK Posts: 2,281 Drives: 370z Touring/Sport Rep Power: 267	I made the trade yesterday. Sadly, I have a bitter taste over it, because after I'd signed the papers, and was going through my final "before you drive it off the lot" examination - I found swirl marks, and wanted them corrected, which they said they'd do... They brought it back in worse condition - sure the swirl marks looked corrected, however it now had a couple of holograms and wax smears...which wasn't bad in an of itself...but apparently the kid manning the buffer ran the edge of said buffer into the passenger door, gouging the paint up. Dealer said they'd take care of it, and I trust that they will (I have a "we owe" ticket)...however, I told them I won't accept anything less than perfection, as I didn't buy a 50K car expecting anything other than perfect...and I told them to look over my Z if they have any questions on what my expectations are... I called them again later...after I had a couple of hours of getting more sick feeling over it, bitched them out for about 10 minutes about how they left it up to me to find it, instead of admitting fault and so on, and what if I'd driven off the lot, and found it once I got home, call them up and they say "it was fine when you left...", and they said they may replace the door panel... We'll see, I guess. The car is amazing, but the monkey's running the place...

05-29-2010, 02:37 PM	#54 (permalink)
kannibul A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Jenks, OK Posts: 2,281 Drives: 370z Touring/Sport Rep Power: 267	On the camaro, it felt like it had a boat anchor attached to it. Smoother ride though, but "felt" sluggish. Vette to me feels more confident in turns - my big complaint about the Z was it's sharp ride, and when cornering over bumps (clover-leaf interchanges most notably), that you'd hit a bump and the rear would skip over towards the outside of the turn - here in Oklahoma, the roads are pretty poorly maintained on the interchanges...so, bumps are common...every 10ft or so. That leads to a lot of corrective steering, or, going well under the posted speed... Once the vette is corrected, and I get to work with "knowing my Porter Cable" on another vehicle (3, actually, each with different levels of help) - I'll hit the vette with it and turn it into a black mirror.

05-29-2010, 04:36 PM	#60 (permalink)
shadoquad A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: . Posts: 42,608 Drives: . Rep Power: 3886	84 months... gulp Still, Vettes are awesome.