Crashing with VDC off

semtex · 04-18-2010, 03:52 PM

So I was thinking about the various posts we've seen from people who have wiped out after turning their VDC off and . . . well . . . I couldn't resist.

I intend this as light-hearted humor, btw. But I'll put my flame suit on just in case.

frost · 04-18-2010, 03:53 PM

I believe this will be used in many more threads to come

Jesse_Hunter · 04-18-2010, 03:56 PM

Excellent!

Trips · 04-18-2010, 03:56 PM

I drive with vdc off all the time whats the problem......

Jeffblue · 04-18-2010, 03:57 PM

i understand the sentiment held towards those who turn off VDC and have no experience and crash. My question is does everyone who feels this is really dumb also think that any rwd car made before traction control was implemented is somehow a dangerous car that you need to be a professional to drive? or is it just b/c the newer cars like the Z have more power that makes them harder to control without VDC for the inexperienced driver.

theDreamer · 04-18-2010, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffblue

i understand the sentiment held towards those who turn off VDC and have no experience and crash. My question is does everyone who feels this is really dumb also think that any rwd car made before traction control was implemented is somehow a dangerous car that you need to be a professional to drive? or is it just b/c the newer cars like the Z have more power that makes them harder to control without VDC for the inexperienced driver.

It has to do with younger generations seem to posses less skill in driving a car, be it from multitasking (cellphones, videos, etc.) or from general lack of skill (poor drivers eduction).

frost · 04-18-2010, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffblue

i understand the sentiment held towards those who turn off VDC and have no experience and crash. My question is does everyone who feels this is really dumb also think that any rwd car made before traction control was implemented is somehow a dangerous car that you need to be a professional to drive? or is it just b/c the newer cars like the Z have more power that makes them harder to control without VDC for the inexperienced driver.

I don't think newer cars have more HP, although their design probably lets us make better use of that HP.

Engine------------------Advertised----Rated----------True
------------------------HP @ RPM---- Torque@ RPM-- HP @ RPM

Buick 455 Stage 1-------360@5000----510@2800------420@5400
Camaro Z/28 302--------290@5800----290@4200------310@6200
Chevelle 396 L-78-------375@5600----415@3600------400@5600
Corvette 427 L-88-------430@5200----450@4400------480@6400
Mopar 340-4 bbl---------275@5000----340@3200------320@5600
Mopar 440-Magnum------375@4600----480@3200------410@5400
Mopar 440 Six-Pack------390@4700----490@3200------430@5600
Mopar 426 Street Hemi---425@5000----490@4000------470@6000
Mustang Boss 302--------290@5800----290@4300------310@6200
Ford 351-4 bbl Cleveland--300@5400----380@3400------340@5600
Mustang Boss 351--------330@5400----370@4000------360@6000
Mustang 428 Cobra-Jet---335@5200----440@3400------410@5600
Mustang Boss 429--------375@5200----450@3400------420@5600
Oldsmobile 455 W-30-----370@5300----500@3600------440@5600
Oldsmobile 350 W-31-----325@5400----360@3600------350@5800
Pontiac Ram Air 400------366@5100----445@3600------410@5600

kannibul · 04-19-2010, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frost

I don't think newer cars have more HP, although their design probably lets us make better use of that HP.

Engine------------------Advertised----Rated----------True
------------------------HP @ RPM---- Torque@ RPM-- HP @ RPM

Buick 455 Stage 1-------360@5000----510@2800------420@5400
Camaro Z/28 302--------290@5800----290@4200------310@6200
Chevelle 396 L-78-------375@5600----415@3600------400@5600
Corvette 427 L-88-------430@5200----450@4400------480@6400
Mopar 340-4 bbl---------275@5000----340@3200------320@5600
Mopar 440-Magnum------375@4600----480@3200------410@5400
Mopar 440 Six-Pack------390@4700----490@3200------430@5600
Mopar 426 Street Hemi---425@5000----490@4000------470@6000
Mustang Boss 302--------290@5800----290@4300------310@6200
Ford 351-4 bbl Cleveland--300@5400----380@3400------340@5600
Mustang Boss 351--------330@5400----370@4000------360@6000
Mustang 428 Cobra-Jet---335@5200----440@3400------410@5600
Mustang Boss 429--------375@5200----450@3400------420@5600
Oldsmobile 455 W-30-----370@5300----500@3600------440@5600
Oldsmobile 350 W-31-----325@5400----360@3600------350@5800
Pontiac Ram Air 400------366@5100----445@3600------410@5600

Power to weight is the "issue". What did those cars post for 1/4 mile times?

RCGsupra · 04-19-2010, 09:24 AM

I think the issue is that this car has some serious grip for a stock car combined w/ relatively low hp/torque. Therefore w/ that combo it takes a lot more to break the car loose. So I'm thinking inexperienced dudes are turning the VDC off to get some wheel spin and are pushing the car beyond their limits.

For example, my previous car was a 420 rwhp Supra. It was so easy to get the wheels to spin at low RPM and once the tires broke loose they would continue to spin until I changed something (throttle input, shifting, etc). That made it extremely predictable. With the Z, I have to really try to get the wheels to spin and that's usually at high RPM w/ the car pretty unsettled.

I dunno I could be full of complete ****, but it's just a theory.

IDZRVIT · 04-19-2010, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kannibul

Power to weight is the "issue". What did those cars post for 1/4 mile times?

A few were breaking into the 13's with stock tires. Put some slicks on and some more were into the 12's.
I've seen other 'actual' HP numbers that were considerably higher than the OP's source.

frost · 04-19-2010, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kannibul

Power to weight is the "issue". What did those cars post for 1/4 mile times?

Dude, you can't correct me when I said in the damn post "although their design probably lets us make better use of that HP."

kannibul · 04-20-2010, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frost

Dude, you can't correct me when I said in the damn post "although their design probably lets us make better use of that HP."

I'm correcting you?

Trips · 04-18-2010, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffblue

i understand the sentiment held towards those who turn off VDC and have no experience and crash. My question is does everyone who feels this is really dumb also think that any rwd car made before traction control was implemented is somehow a dangerous car that you need to be a professional to drive? or is it just b/c the newer cars like the Z have more power that makes them harder to control without VDC for the inexperienced driver.

I think it's primarily inexperienced drivers that don't know that cars can bite back in the Ass if they're not careful, and also some experienced clowns that simply loose it.

semtex · 04-18-2010, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffblue

i understand the sentiment held towards those who turn off VDC and have no experience and crash. My question is does everyone who feels this is really dumb also think that any rwd car made before traction control was implemented is somehow a dangerous car that you need to be a professional to drive? or is it just b/c the newer cars like the Z have more power that makes them harder to control without VDC for the inexperienced driver.

Personally, I learned to drive way before traction control, stability control, even ABS, were commonly available on cars. So I don't think it's dumb to turn off VDC. Rather, not learning basic car control and vehicle dynamics is what's dumb. But I think that says more about the sad state of driver education in this country than anything else. Truth be told, it's a bit of a double-edged sword. On one hand, if one is a relatively new driver and doesn't have experience with controlling powerful rwd cars, then one should probably leave VDC on. But on the other hand, if one doesn't turn it off from time to time, how is one to learn from the experience of having to apply opposite lock to tuck the tail back in, etc.? The best way to learn how to do something is by doing it, right?

Trips · 04-18-2010, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semtex

Personally, I learned to drive way before traction control, stability control, even ABS, were commonly available on cars. So I don't think it's dumb to turn off VDC. Rather, not learning basic car control and vehicle dynamics is what's dumb. But I think that says more about the sad state of driver education in this country than anything else. Truth be told, it's a bit of a double-edged sword. On one hand, if one is a relatively new driver and doesn't have experience with controlling powerful rwd cars, then one should probably leave VDC on. But on the other hand, if one doesn't turn it off from time to time, how is one to learn from the experience of having to apply opposite lock to tuck the tail back in, etc.? The best way to learn how to do something is by doing it, right?

04-18-2010, 03:52 PM	#1 (permalink)
semtex A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Behind enemy lines Age: 54 Posts: 5,995 Drives: People to drink Rep Power: 33	Crashing with VDC off So I was thinking about the various posts we've seen from people who have wiped out after turning their VDC off and . . . well . . . I couldn't resist. I intend this as light-hearted humor, btw. But I'll put my flame suit on just in case. __________________ "There are no small accidents on this circuit." -- Ayrton Senna 316.8whp & 248 ft/lbs (Dyno Dynamics) \| 319whp & 256 ft/lbs (DynoJet) (04/23/10) Stillen G3 CAI, CBE, Pulley / F.I. LTH / GTSpec Ladder Brace / Setrab Oil Cooler / UpRev-tuned by Forged Perf.

04-18-2010, 03:56 PM	#4 (permalink)
Trips Administrator Join Date: May 2009 Location: Disneyland, Ca Posts: 8,732 Drives: 🔰 Rep Power: 10	I drive with vdc off all the time whats the problem...... __________________

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04-18-2010, 03:56 PM	#3 (permalink)
Jesse_Hunter Track Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Denton,TX Age: 38 Posts: 738 Drives: 07' Sky Redline Rep Power: 366	Excellent!

04-18-2010, 03:57 PM	#5 (permalink)
Jeffblue A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: NY Age: 37 Posts: 9,192 Drives: Z32TT & 335xi Coupe Rep Power: 38	i understand the sentiment held towards those who turn off VDC and have no experience and crash. My question is does everyone who feels this is really dumb also think that any rwd car made before traction control was implemented is somehow a dangerous car that you need to be a professional to drive? or is it just b/c the newer cars like the Z have more power that makes them harder to control without VDC for the inexperienced driver.

04-19-2010, 09:24 AM	#9 (permalink)
RCGsupra Base Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Columbia SC Posts: 77 Drives: 09 370Z Rep Power: 17	I think the issue is that this car has some serious grip for a stock car combined w/ relatively low hp/torque. Therefore w/ that combo it takes a lot more to break the car loose. So I'm thinking inexperienced dudes are turning the VDC off to get some wheel spin and are pushing the car beyond their limits. For example, my previous car was a 420 rwhp Supra. It was so easy to get the wheels to spin at low RPM and once the tires broke loose they would continue to spin until I changed something (throttle input, shifting, etc). That made it extremely predictable. With the Z, I have to really try to get the wheels to spin and that's usually at high RPM w/ the car pretty unsettled. I dunno I could be full of complete ****, but it's just a theory.