Shifting Into First Not Possible...

KillerBee370 · 03-15-2010, 01:01 AM

Very hard to do. And those weren't attacks... they were love taps.

elmz · 03-15-2010, 01:06 AM

If you are going to shift into 1st you better have SRM on. Otherwise why would you want to? especially from 3k???

AK370Z · 03-15-2010, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugoneus

Dear AK370Z,

Have you ever down-shifted into first yourself? Could you do it? Did you use a lot of force to shift?

yes I did. Yes I can do it but I prefer NOT to do it because it's kinda harsh going into 1st. It does require quite some push to do it. Coming from 350Z, I know how sensitive Nissan Transmissions are (usually synchros ). I just don't want to visit the dealer for any transmission problem(s) .

soCo · 03-15-2010, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugoneus

Thanks for the replies.

For those of you who chose to attack me, can you explain to me why I would NOT be able to down shift into first? What is the mechanical limitation?

I have often noticed that it is hard to shift into first or second, I think it is worthwhile to understand why.

Have you guys actually tried to down-shift from 2nd to 1st? Is it very hard to do? Or impossible?

It's probably a safety feature put on by nissan to stop you from doing it. Most auto manufacturers design their cars so that they do not go into 1st very easily unless the car is stopped or going very slowly. The actual act of downshifting into 1st isn't bad when done correctly, but can be very expensive if you get it wrong.

1st is for starting to get the car rolling, all the other gears are for while it's in motion.

Trips · 03-15-2010, 01:13 AM

Being that 1st gear is your main gear because its the one thats always being used out from a complete stop, theres no good reason to subject the transmission to this type of downshifts, But again it's yours to do what you want with, it's your transmission, but if you start Posting with I'm having Transmission problems or my 1st gear took a dump will at least know why....

Cjanik · 03-15-2010, 08:48 AM

yes there is "sort of" a physical limitation, to avoid from shifting into 1st gear while you have second on redline and attempting to go into 3rd.

once you slow down enough, then the limitation will go away and you can slip it into 1st, but this is so slow that there's almost no reason to do so. if your already moving but want a faster start in 2nd, hold the clutch in and feather it out while reving the RPM high.

never never never try to force the car into any gear. if it wont go smooth, then you can possibly bend/damage something by force.

chris410 · 03-15-2010, 08:53 AM

Could be a lockout, similar to reverse where the transmission will lock out the gate while moving to avoid an accident in addition to blowing up your transmission. Otherwise, take it to the dealer because if there is not lockout your car should be able to be shifted into 1st. Of course, as other said, it's not something you'd want to do unless you are going very slow.

Brendan@Bwalk · 03-15-2010, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugoneus

Thanks for the replies.

For those of you who chose to attack me, can you explain to me why I would NOT be able to down shift into first? What is the mechanical limitation?

I have often noticed that it is hard to shift into first or second, I think it is worthwhile to understand why.

Have you guys actually tried to down-shift from 2nd to 1st? Is it very hard to do? Or impossible?

The limitation is the ability of the synchro to match the vastly different speeds of 2nd and 1st gear. 2nd gear at 3k will put you at a very high rpm in 1st, and that is a HUGE speed for a synchro to accelerate up to.

Either 1 - Double clutch (neutral, clutch out, rev to the rpm it should be at in 1st, clutch in select first), or 2 - don't shift into 1st at that speed.

You never want to force a transmission to do anything...ever. That's how you break things, whether it's a synchro, shift fork, or detent bushings. If the transmission doesn't want to do what you're asking, you're either asking it to do too much too quickly, or it's broken.

In this case, it seems like you're asking it to do too much too quickly, especially since at 1k miles it's hardly broken in.

kenchan · 03-15-2010, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugoneus

can you explain to me why I would NOT be able to down shift into first? What is the mechanical limitation?

becuase you need to rev match and if you were at 3K in 2nd, i would floor it to 5.5~6K to get into 1st.

not really mechanical limitation, more like driver limitation.

Vegitto-kun · 03-15-2010, 03:22 PM

I don't see the use for 1st gear while moving.

and it being hard to push into first gear is normal as far as I know

Clio couldn't do it.
megane coupe couldn't do it
megane CC
master.

no single car I have driven shifts easily into first gear while moving.

sure I can force it. but if I DARE do that with the master it starts making noises.

the bad breaking cogs noise.

I am sure that it is on purpose.

I mean going from 2nd to first from 3000 RPM would result in near redline revs.

not good for the transmission

kenchan · 03-15-2010, 04:01 PM

true, i dont see myself downshifting into 1st from 3K in 2nd in my z....but in my honda fit, different story. i need to get my vtack dosage every time.

prichardson · 03-15-2010, 05:01 PM

Looking at the gear ratios, 3000 RPM means you're going about 28 MPH. Downshifting to first at that speed means your RMPs need to jump to just a bit under 5000 RPM. I echo what most people are saying here - that's a tall order for your syncomesh.

m4a1mustang · 03-15-2010, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicknick

After reading a lot about MT problems, I seriously believe it is people who don't know how to drive a manual and are learning on this Zed. As a result this MT is being abused by people who do not know how to drive a manual.
Really you would only put it in first if you were crawling at say, 2 to 4 mph, for everything else just leave it in second, I am assuming traffic conditions.

dad · 03-15-2010, 05:48 PM

Who in the hell taught some of you to drive?

1st gear is for a "dead stop start"!

Don't-Do Not-Shift into 1st gear if you are moving.>>> "Unless" your engine coughs-sputters, leave it what ever gear your driving.

semtex · 03-15-2010, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dad

Who in the hell taught some of you to drive?

The same people who spin out when they turn VDC off.

03-15-2010, 01:13 AM	#20 (permalink)
Trips Administrator Join Date: May 2009 Location: Disneyland, Ca Posts: 8,732 Drives: 🔰 Rep Power: 10	Being that 1st gear is your main gear because its the one thats always being used out from a complete stop, theres no good reason to subject the transmission to this type of downshifts, But again it's yours to do what you want with, it's your transmission, but if you start Posting with I'm having Transmission problems or my 1st gear took a dump will at least know why.... __________________

03-15-2010, 08:53 AM	#22 (permalink)
chris410 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Virginia Posts: 345 Drives: 10' GT500 Rep Power: 16	Could be a lockout, similar to reverse where the transmission will lock out the gate while moving to avoid an accident in addition to blowing up your transmission. Otherwise, take it to the dealer because if there is not lockout your car should be able to be shifted into 1st. Of course, as other said, it's not something you'd want to do unless you are going very slow. __________________ Chris Current: 2014 WRX Stage I + SPT / 2013 Hayabusa 202HP Former:09 370Z 7-AT PW/Ark Type 2 exhaust/Evo R lip/TSW Nurburgring carbon

03-15-2010, 05:48 PM	#29 (permalink)
dad Grand Prix of Endurance Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tennessee Posts: 3,476 Drives: Mulsanne Straight Rep Power: 26	Who in the hell taught some of you to drive? 1st gear is for a "dead stop start"! Don't-Do Not-Shift into 1st gear if you are moving.>>> "Unless" your engine coughs-sputters, leave it what ever gear your driving. __________________ We can do without any article of luxury we have never had; but once obtained, it is not in human nature to surrender it voluntary.

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03-15-2010, 01:01 AM	#16 (permalink)
KillerBee370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: So Cal baby! Age: 51 Posts: 5,964 Drives: with passion Rep Power: 321	Very hard to do. And those weren't attacks... they were love taps.

03-15-2010, 01:06 AM	#17 (permalink)
elmz Track Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 674 Drives: 2014 Porsche Boxster Rep Power: 17	If you are going to shift into 1st you better have SRM on. Otherwise why would you want to? especially from 3k???

03-15-2010, 08:48 AM	#21 (permalink)
Cjanik Track Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 578 Drives: N/A Rep Power: 17	yes there is "sort of" a physical limitation, to avoid from shifting into 1st gear while you have second on redline and attempting to go into 3rd. once you slow down enough, then the limitation will go away and you can slip it into 1st, but this is so slow that there's almost no reason to do so. if your already moving but want a faster start in 2nd, hold the clutch in and feather it out while reving the RPM high. never never never try to force the car into any gear. if it wont go smooth, then you can possibly bend/damage something by force.

03-15-2010, 03:22 PM	#25 (permalink)
Vegitto-kun A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: USA Posts: 2,011 Drives: 09 370Z Rep Power: 262	I don't see the use for 1st gear while moving. and it being hard to push into first gear is normal as far as I know Clio couldn't do it. megane coupe couldn't do it megane CC master. no single car I have driven shifts easily into first gear while moving. sure I can force it. but if I DARE do that with the master it starts making noises. the bad breaking cogs noise. I am sure that it is on purpose. I mean going from 2nd to first from 3000 RPM would result in near redline revs. not good for the transmission

03-15-2010, 04:01 PM	#26 (permalink)
kenchan A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: N/A Posts: 76,801 Drives: N/A Rep Power: 141521	true, i dont see myself downshifting into 1st from 3K in 2nd in my z....but in my honda fit, different story. i need to get my vtack dosage every time.

03-15-2010, 05:01 PM	#27 (permalink)
prichardson Base Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 59 Drives: 2010 370Z CS M6 Rep Power: 15	Looking at the gear ratios, 3000 RPM means you're going about 28 MPH. Downshifting to first at that speed means your RMPs need to jump to just a bit under 5000 RPM. I echo what most people are saying here - that's a tall order for your syncomesh.