What happened to the tire pressure gauge and speedo in the middle gauge cluster?

Nismo 370z · 01-23-2009, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crash

That clock is staying right where it is on my car. However, it will be slightly modified.

Ever heard of a BLINDER X-TREME? I'll be putting my warning light in that gauge right under the digital display.

Nobody but me will know what it is.

What is it lol?

JeepZen · 01-23-2009, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nismo 370z

Thanks for the info. I saw this thing in a magazine that shows a picture that shows a pressing a clutch and it says "clutch". Does the digital readout tell u to press the clutch everytime u need to shift?

That is what you see when you first get in, before you start the car. You have to depress the clutch before hitting the start button. With an automatic is says "brake" instead.

semtex · 01-23-2009, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert_Nash

The multi-function gauge on the left does have a lot of different data on it but I haven't looked specifically for tire pressure.

Don't bother, it isn't there. Trust me, I looked and looked, started cursing, and looked some more to no avail. The TPMS is good for one thing only -- warning you if the pressure is low. Want to make sure the pressures in all your tires are even? You'll need to get out of the car and use a pressure gauge. Of course, if you accidentally let out a bunch of nitrogen and need a fill, you'll have to take it back to the dealership or some other place with nitrogen. What a pain in the @ss. I don't suppose anyone makes a home-friendly nitrogen filling machine, do they? I have a portable air compressor, but it won't do me any good for nitrogen.

Lug · 01-23-2009, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semtex

Don't bother, it isn't there. Trust me, I looked and looked, started cursing, and looked some more to no avail. The TPMS is good for one thing only -- warning you if the pressure is low. Want to make sure the pressures in all your tires are even? You'll need to get out of the car and use a pressure gauge. Of course, if you accidentally let out a bunch of nitrogen and need a fill, you'll have to take it back to the dealership or some other place with nitrogen. What a pain in the @ss. I don't suppose anyone makes a home-friendly nitrogen filling machine, do they? I have a portable air compressor, but it won't do me any good for nitrogen.

You can run up to 78.09% nitrogen from your portable air compressor.

Robert_Nash · 01-23-2009, 12:00 PM

Do any of the available tires on the 370Z come with and/or require Nitrogen???

If so, I haven't read that anywhere yet.

semtex · 01-23-2009, 12:06 PM

All my tires came filled with Nitrogen. Not sure if it's done at the factory or at the dealership, though.

Robert_Nash · 01-23-2009, 01:25 PM

At least one of the optional tires for the GT-R require nitrogen but as far as I know, none of the tires offered on the 370 do.

I like nitrogen for an everyday car/daily driver that doesn't see a track or an autocross event but for something I'm going to compete in, even just now and then, being able to adjust tire pressure is important.

dad · 01-23-2009, 01:51 PM

Nitrogen inflation is one of those topics that gets discussed in car circles a lot. Some people swear by it, whilst others consider it to be an expensive rip off. So what's the big idea? Well there are two common theories on this.

Theory 1: nitrogen molecules are larger than oxygen molecules so they won't permeate through the rubber of the tyre like oxygen will, and thus you'll never lose pressure over time due to leakage. The fact is any gas will leak out of a tyre if its at a higher pressure than the ambient pressure outside. The only way to stop it is a non-gas-permeable membrane lining the inside of the tyre.
The science bit: Water is about half the size of either nitrogen or oxygen, so it might diffuse out of the tyre faster, but it would have to be much, much faster to make a difference. Tyres can leak 1-2 psi a month at the extreme end of the scale although it's not clear how much of that is by permeation through the rubber, and how much is through microscopic leaks of various sorts. For a racing tyre to lose significant water during its racing lifetime (maybe an hour or so for Formula 1), the permeation rate would have to be hundreds of times faster than oxygen or nitrogen, so that pretty much cancels out the idea that it's the molecule size that makes the difference.

Theory 2: Nitrogen means less water vapour. This is more to do with the thermal properties than anything else. Nitrogen is an inert gas; it doesn't combust or oxidise. The process used to compress nitrogen eliminates water vapor and that's the key to this particular theory. When a tyre heats up under normal use, any water vapour inside it also heats up which causes an increase in tyre pressure. By removing water vapor with a pure nitrogen fill, you're basically going to allow the tyre to stay at a more constant pressure irrespective of temperature over the life of the tyre. In other words, your tyre pressures won't change as you drive.
The science bit: The van der Waals gas equation provides a good estimate for comparing the expansions of oxygen and nitrogen to water. If you compare moist air (20°C, 80% RH) to nitrogen, you'll find that going up as far as 80°C results in the moist air increasing in pressure by about 0.01 psi less per litre volume than nitrogen. Moist air will increase in pressure by 7.253psi whereas nitrogen will increase in pressure by 7.263psi. Even humid air has only a small amount of water in it (about 2 mole % which means about 2% by volume), so that all puts a bit of a blunt tip on the theory that it's the differences in thermal expansion rates that give nitrogen an advantage. In fact it would seem to suggest that damp air is marginally better than nitrogen. Go figure.

So which option is right - smaller molecules, or less water vapour? It would seem neither. A reader of this site had a good thought on the whole nitrogen inflation thing. He wrote: Some racer who did not know the details of chemistry and physics thought that nitrogen would be better because (insert plausible but incorrect science here) and he started using nitrogen. He won some races and word got out that he was using nitrogen in his tires. Well, it is not expensive to use nitrogen in place of air, so pretty soon everyone was doing it. Hey, until I hear a reason that makes good scientific sense, this explanation seems just as good.

Nitrogen inflation is nothing new - the aerospace world has been doing it for years in aircraft tyres. Racing teams will also often use nitrogen inflation, but largely out of conveience rather than due to any specific performance benefit, which would tend to fit with the armchair science outlined above. Nitrogen is supplied in pressurised tanks, so no other equipment is needed to inflate the tyres - no compressors or generators or anything.

So does it make a difference to drivers in the real world? Well consider this; The air you breathe is already made up of 78% nitrogen. The composition is completed by 21% oxygen and tiny percentages of argon, carbon dioxide, neon, methane, helium, krypton, hydrogen and xenon. The kit that is used to generate nitrogen for road tyres typically only gets to about 95% purity. To get close to that in your tyres, you'd need to inflate and deflate them several times to purge any remaining oxygen and even then you're only likely to get about 90% pure nitrogen. So under ideal conditions, you're increasing the nitrogen content of the gas in the tyre from 78% to 90%. Given that nitrogen inflation from the average tyre workshop is a one-shot deal (no purging involved) you're more likely to be driving around with 80% pure nitrogen than 90%. That's a 2% difference from bog standard air. On top of that, nitrogen inflation doesn't make your tyres any less prone to damage from road debris and punctures and such. It doesn't make them any stronger, and if you need to top them up and use a regular garage air-line to do it, you've diluted whatever purity of nitrogen was in the tyres right there. For $30 a tyre for nitrogen inflation, do you think that's worth it? For all the alleged benefits of a nitrogen fill, you'd be far better off finding a tyre change place that has a vapour-elimination system in their air compressor. If they can pump up your tyres with dry air, you'll get about the same benefits as you would with a nitrogen inflation but for free.

Crash · 01-23-2009, 03:07 PM

Nismo, Laser Jammer. Makes it so cops can't use Laser to get your speed. Blinder-Xtreme <--- Youtube has a bunch of test videos.

Robert_Nash · 01-23-2009, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crash

Nismo, Laser Jammer. Makes it so cops can't use Laser to get your speed. Blinder-Xtreme <--- Youtube has a bunch of test videos.

Yeah...but be careful; some systems work far better than others.

Also keep in mind that laser jamming systems can't do anything about an officers eyesight and common sense...if you are doing near/over double-digits he can still arrest you no matter what his laser unit says or doesn't say!!!

Crash · 01-23-2009, 03:35 PM

I know.. I'm worried about when I'm doing 79 in a 65.

semtex · 01-23-2009, 05:56 PM

This is completely OT, but I've been using K40 for the past 10 years on all my cars. Utterly reliable. I actually enjoy getting painted with laser now, because it's fun to watch the confused looks on cops' faces as they repeatedly hit my car and can't figure why they can't get a reading.

Crash · 01-23-2009, 08:29 PM

Yeah, I was going to get the K40 as well, but I saw the Blinder and was like, WHOA! However, I like that the K40 has the license plate bracket... I can't figure out how to get the back of the Z with the blinder.

FERRARI · 01-24-2009, 03:41 PM

Hey CRASH .....Ever hear of the Valentine V-1 ? I have never had a speeding ticket.....Never

Crash · 01-24-2009, 04:59 PM

Valentine picks up laser too late if you're pretty much the only one on the road. Laser will get you before you can slow down. So, the best protection is a Valentine+Laser Jammer.

01-23-2009, 12:00 PM	#20 (permalink)
Robert_Nash Track Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Middle TN/Savannah GA Posts: 762 Drives: '14 Q60IPL/'14Armada Rep Power: 17	Do any of the available tires on the 370Z come with and/or require Nitrogen??? If so, I haven't read that anywhere yet. __________________ Robert -My Basset Hound Is Smarter Than Your Honor Student and Barack Obama -

01-23-2009, 12:06 PM	#21 (permalink)
semtex A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Behind enemy lines Age: 54 Posts: 5,995 Drives: People to drink Rep Power: 32	All my tires came filled with Nitrogen. Not sure if it's done at the factory or at the dealership, though. __________________ "There are no small accidents on this circuit." -- Ayrton Senna 316.8whp & 248 ft/lbs (Dyno Dynamics) \| 319whp & 256 ft/lbs (DynoJet) (04/23/10) Stillen G3 CAI, CBE, Pulley / F.I. LTH / GTSpec Ladder Brace / Setrab Oil Cooler / UpRev-tuned by Forged Perf.

01-23-2009, 01:25 PM	#22 (permalink)
Robert_Nash Track Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Middle TN/Savannah GA Posts: 762 Drives: '14 Q60IPL/'14Armada Rep Power: 17	At least one of the optional tires for the GT-R require nitrogen but as far as I know, none of the tires offered on the 370 do. I like nitrogen for an everyday car/daily driver that doesn't see a track or an autocross event but for something I'm going to compete in, even just now and then, being able to adjust tire pressure is important. __________________ Robert -My Basset Hound Is Smarter Than Your Honor Student and Barack Obama -

01-23-2009, 01:51 PM	#23 (permalink)
dad Grand Prix of Endurance Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tennessee Posts: 3,476 Drives: Mulsanne Straight Rep Power: 26	Nitrogen inflation is one of those topics that gets discussed in car circles a lot. Some people swear by it, whilst others consider it to be an expensive rip off. So what's the big idea? Well there are two common theories on this. Theory 1: nitrogen molecules are larger than oxygen molecules so they won't permeate through the rubber of the tyre like oxygen will, and thus you'll never lose pressure over time due to leakage. The fact is any gas will leak out of a tyre if its at a higher pressure than the ambient pressure outside. The only way to stop it is a non-gas-permeable membrane lining the inside of the tyre. The science bit: Water is about half the size of either nitrogen or oxygen, so it might diffuse out of the tyre faster, but it would have to be much, much faster to make a difference. Tyres can leak 1-2 psi a month at the extreme end of the scale although it's not clear how much of that is by permeation through the rubber, and how much is through microscopic leaks of various sorts. For a racing tyre to lose significant water during its racing lifetime (maybe an hour or so for Formula 1), the permeation rate would have to be hundreds of times faster than oxygen or nitrogen, so that pretty much cancels out the idea that it's the molecule size that makes the difference. Theory 2: Nitrogen means less water vapour. This is more to do with the thermal properties than anything else. Nitrogen is an inert gas; it doesn't combust or oxidise. The process used to compress nitrogen eliminates water vapor and that's the key to this particular theory. When a tyre heats up under normal use, any water vapour inside it also heats up which causes an increase in tyre pressure. By removing water vapor with a pure nitrogen fill, you're basically going to allow the tyre to stay at a more constant pressure irrespective of temperature over the life of the tyre. In other words, your tyre pressures won't change as you drive. The science bit: The van der Waals gas equation provides a good estimate for comparing the expansions of oxygen and nitrogen to water. If you compare moist air (20°C, 80% RH) to nitrogen, you'll find that going up as far as 80°C results in the moist air increasing in pressure by about 0.01 psi less per litre volume than nitrogen. Moist air will increase in pressure by 7.253psi whereas nitrogen will increase in pressure by 7.263psi. Even humid air has only a small amount of water in it (about 2 mole % which means about 2% by volume), so that all puts a bit of a blunt tip on the theory that it's the differences in thermal expansion rates that give nitrogen an advantage. In fact it would seem to suggest that damp air is marginally better than nitrogen. Go figure. So which option is right - smaller molecules, or less water vapour? It would seem neither. A reader of this site had a good thought on the whole nitrogen inflation thing. He wrote: Some racer who did not know the details of chemistry and physics thought that nitrogen would be better because (insert plausible but incorrect science here) and he started using nitrogen. He won some races and word got out that he was using nitrogen in his tires. Well, it is not expensive to use nitrogen in place of air, so pretty soon everyone was doing it. Hey, until I hear a reason that makes good scientific sense, this explanation seems just as good. Nitrogen inflation is nothing new - the aerospace world has been doing it for years in aircraft tyres. Racing teams will also often use nitrogen inflation, but largely out of conveience rather than due to any specific performance benefit, which would tend to fit with the armchair science outlined above. Nitrogen is supplied in pressurised tanks, so no other equipment is needed to inflate the tyres - no compressors or generators or anything. So does it make a difference to drivers in the real world? Well consider this; The air you breathe is already made up of 78% nitrogen. The composition is completed by 21% oxygen and tiny percentages of argon, carbon dioxide, neon, methane, helium, krypton, hydrogen and xenon. The kit that is used to generate nitrogen for road tyres typically only gets to about 95% purity. To get close to that in your tyres, you'd need to inflate and deflate them several times to purge any remaining oxygen and even then you're only likely to get about 90% pure nitrogen. So under ideal conditions, you're increasing the nitrogen content of the gas in the tyre from 78% to 90%. Given that nitrogen inflation from the average tyre workshop is a one-shot deal (no purging involved) you're more likely to be driving around with 80% pure nitrogen than 90%. That's a 2% difference from bog standard air. On top of that, nitrogen inflation doesn't make your tyres any less prone to damage from road debris and punctures and such. It doesn't make them any stronger, and if you need to top them up and use a regular garage air-line to do it, you've diluted whatever purity of nitrogen was in the tyres right there. For $30 a tyre for nitrogen inflation, do you think that's worth it? For all the alleged benefits of a nitrogen fill, you'd be far better off finding a tyre change place that has a vapour-elimination system in their air compressor. If they can pump up your tyres with dry air, you'll get about the same benefits as you would with a nitrogen inflation but for free. __________________ We can do without any article of luxury we have never had; but once obtained, it is not in human nature to surrender it voluntary.

01-23-2009, 03:07 PM	#24 (permalink)
Crash A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,853 Drives: 02 Corvette Z06 Rep Power: 589	Nismo, Laser Jammer. Makes it so cops can't use Laser to get your speed. Blinder-Xtreme <--- Youtube has a bunch of test videos. __________________ 2002 Corvette Z06 - Totaled 2003 Corvette Z06 50th Anniversary

01-23-2009, 03:35 PM	#26 (permalink)
Crash A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,853 Drives: 02 Corvette Z06 Rep Power: 589	I know.. I'm worried about when I'm doing 79 in a 65. __________________ 2002 Corvette Z06 - Totaled 2003 Corvette Z06 50th Anniversary

01-23-2009, 05:56 PM	#27 (permalink)
semtex A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Behind enemy lines Age: 54 Posts: 5,995 Drives: People to drink Rep Power: 32	This is completely OT, but I've been using K40 for the past 10 years on all my cars. Utterly reliable. I actually enjoy getting painted with laser now, because it's fun to watch the confused looks on cops' faces as they repeatedly hit my car and can't figure why they can't get a reading. __________________ "There are no small accidents on this circuit." -- Ayrton Senna 316.8whp & 248 ft/lbs (Dyno Dynamics) \| 319whp & 256 ft/lbs (DynoJet) (04/23/10) Stillen G3 CAI, CBE, Pulley / F.I. LTH / GTSpec Ladder Brace / Setrab Oil Cooler / UpRev-tuned by Forged Perf.

01-23-2009, 08:29 PM	#28 (permalink)
Crash A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,853 Drives: 02 Corvette Z06 Rep Power: 589	Yeah, I was going to get the K40 as well, but I saw the Blinder and was like, WHOA! However, I like that the K40 has the license plate bracket... I can't figure out how to get the back of the Z with the blinder. __________________ 2002 Corvette Z06 - Totaled 2003 Corvette Z06 50th Anniversary

01-24-2009, 03:41 PM	#29 (permalink)
FERRARI Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Chattanooga, Tennessee Posts: 324 Drives: PERFECTION Rep Power: 492	Hey CRASH .....Ever hear of the Valentine V-1 ? I have never had a speeding ticket.....Never

01-24-2009, 04:59 PM	#30 (permalink)
Crash A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,853 Drives: 02 Corvette Z06 Rep Power: 589	Valentine picks up laser too late if you're pretty much the only one on the road. Laser will get you before you can slow down. So, the best protection is a Valentine+Laser Jammer. __________________ 2002 Corvette Z06 - Totaled 2003 Corvette Z06 50th Anniversary

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