Car and Driver Crashes a Nismo 370Z

pulpz · 01-01-2010, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MightyBobo

I know full well what the cause is, and it can be blamed almost directly on whiney 350Z owners

.....let me tell ya....on my '03 350Z the brake dust was ridiculous. But I'd gladly tolerate it for performance....but I swapped to Hawk pads, better performance and reduced brake dust.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MightyBobo

Im assuming this is an admission of the fact that the Boxster isnt a bad car. Because if you think so, I think its fair to note the Caymen S MATCHED the time of the 911, with 65 LESS horsepower. I know some people are into the whole, "911 is the best Porsche zomg" mentality. Sad truth is, their mid-engined offerings are far more balanced, and the Boxster is an excellent example of that.

No question....I was holding out for a Cayman,...but after a test drive, I realized it wasn't for me. Its not for people over 6'. Not comfortable at all. Otherwise, it was everything as advertised. I was really dissapointed, but felt alot better about not spending the extra money and staying with a Z.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MightyBobo

How do you figure? 1st: LL1 is $30K or less. A Base+Sport MSRPs for more than 30K, and they always go off of MSRP. 2nd: even if you go with base non-sport...the GT ran a 3:13.3, and the Nismo's best was 3:12.0. I can almost guarantee the less-sticky and smaller tires on the Base, not to mention the small horsepower deficit and even WORSE brakes, would handicap the Base even more. Winner: Mustang GT.

The LL segment grouping is based on base price, not "as tested". If the Sport package is considered an option on the Base 370Z (as is the Track package - and any other options on the Mustang GT contribute to $6K over base price) then the Base Price for the 370Z price becomes <$30k.

I think they should group by "as tested" price and not base price. And I think they could do a better job of logically grouping looking at how the costs are distributed.

MightyBobo · 01-01-2010, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pulpz

.....let me tell ya....on my '03 350Z the brake dust was ridiculous. But I'd gladly tolerate it for performance....but I swapped to Hawk pads, better performance and reduced brake dust.

I was just poking fun really, but thats my mentality too. I'll take a bit of dust/squeaks for good performance.

Quote:

The LL segment grouping is based on base price, not "as tested". If the Sport package is considered an option on the Base 370Z (as is the Track package - and any other options on the Mustang GT contribute to $6K over base price) then the Base Price for the 370Z price becomes <$30k.

I think they should group by "as tested" price and not base price. And I think they could do a better job of logically grouping looking at how the costs are distributed.

Well, either way - that begs the question...could the Base+Sport make up the 1 second difference between the Nismo and itself? It'd run into the same braking issues, thats for sure...and it only has less horsepower/softer handling...

Personally, I dont think so.

370Zsteve · 01-03-2010, 06:41 AM

That really has not been addressed. But read this and tell me it doesn't add weight to the theory. This is not the first time the Nismo has lost to it's brother in a comparison, btw:

Inside Line tests hundreds of vehicles a year, but not every vehicle gets a full write-up. The numbers still tell a story, though, so we present "IL Track Tested." It's a quick rundown of all the data we collected at the track, along with comments direct from the test drivers. Enjoy.

As factory track models go, the 2009 Nissan Nismo 370Z is not the most hard-core beast ever built on a production line. Then again, it's no sticker-and-stripe-job either. Underneath the aggressive new bodywork is a substantially revised suspension and a slightly more powerful version of Nissan's latest 3.7-liter V6.

So how does it all work, you say? Well we wanted to find out too, so we took the new Nismo out to our test facility to run some numbers. Then we compared the results to our long-term 2009 370Z Touring.

It was a moderate day in terms of temperature for both tests, but both of the 370s had auxiliary engine oil coolers so all the track work wasn't much of a problem. Once the results started to come in, however, the Nismo continually failed to deliver any better numbers than our standard car. Whether it was braking (worse), acceleration (same) or handling (same, but scarier), the Nismo never came out ahead. Actually, it did beat the standard 370Z in one category -- full-throttle decibel level. See the full results and explanations after the jump.

Vehicle: 2009 Nissan Nismo 370Z

Odometer: 1,027
Date: 06/16/09
Driver: Josh Jacquot
Price: $39,340

Specifications:
Drive Type: Rear-wheel drive
Transmission Type: 6-speed manual
Engine Type: V6
Displacement (cc/cu-in): 3,696cc (226 cu-in)
Redline (rpm): 7,500
Horsepower (hp @ rpm): 350 @ 7,400
Torque (lb-ft @ rpm): 276 @ 5,200
Brake Type (front): Ventilated disc
Brake Type (rear): Ventilated disc
Steering System: Speed-proportional power steering
Suspension Type (front): Double-wishbone
Suspension Type (rear): Multilink
Tire Size (front): 245/40R19
Tire Size (rear): 285/35R19
Tire Brand: Yokohama
Tire Model: Advan Sport
Tire Type: Summer performance
Wheel Size: 19-by-9.5-inches front; 19-by-10.5-inches rear
Wheel Material (front/rear): Alloy
As tested Curb Weight (lb): 3,356

Test Results:
0 - 30 (sec): 2.1
0 - 45 (sec): 3.6
0 - 60 (sec): 5.3
0 - 75 (sec): 7.7
1/4 Mile (sec @ mph): 13.6 @ 103.2
0-60 with 1-ft Rollout (sec): 5.1
30 - 0 (ft): 28
60 - 0 (ft): 115
Braking Rating: Poor
Slalom (mph): 70.4
Skid Pad Lateral acceleration (g): 0.91
Handling Rating: Very Good
Db @ Idle: 47.1
Db @ Full Throttle: 84.8
Db @ 70 mph Cruise: 72.9

Acceleration Comments: More than enough power to blow off its tires at launch. Best launch from about 4,800 rpm with some wheelspin. Gnarly rubber going into 2nd. Can't try too hard, however, or you'll miss entirely. It hates fast shifts.

Braking Comments: Clearly, pad bedding is important on the Z and this car doesn't appear to have had this done properly. Standard Z stopped shorter; this car feels like it has wooden pads. There's no fade, but also no effectiveness. Wildly inconsistent pedal feel, too.

Handling Comments: (Slalom) Added stiffness makes Nismo harder to handle in our slalom which isn't very smooth. I'm confident this car is quicker on a racetrack, but the sharp bump at cone 3 makes it a challenge here. Same speed as the normal car, but a lot more work to get there. (Skid pad) Communication is good, but overall this doesn't seem like a great street setup, and grip is inexplicably less than the standard Z.

Vehicle: 2009 Nissan 370Z

Odometer: 1,971
Date: 03/03/09
Driver: Josh Jacquot
Price: $40,320

Specifications:
Drive Type: Rear-wheel drive
Transmission Type: 6-speed manual
Engine Type: V6
Displacement (cc / cu-in): 3,969cc (226 cu-in)
Redline (rpm): 7,500
Horsepower (hp @ rpm): 332 @ 7,000
Torque (lb-ft @ rpm): 270 @ 5,200
Brake Type (front): Ventilated disc
Brake Type (rear): Ventilated disc
Steering System: Speed-proportional power steering
Suspension Type (front): Double-wishbone
Suspension Type (rear): Multilink
Tire Size (front): 245/40R19
Tire Size (rear): 275/35R19
Tire Brand: Bridgestone
Tire Model: Potenza RE050A
Tire Type: Summer performance
Wheel Size: 19-by-9.0-inches front; 19-by-10-inches rear
Wheel Material (front/rear): Alloy
As tested Curb Weight (lb): 3,374

Test Results:
0 - 30 (sec): 2.0
0 - 45 (sec): 3.5
0 - 60 (sec): 5.2
0 - 75 (sec): 7.6
1/4 Mile (sec @ mph): 13.5 @ 103.7
0-60 with 1-ft Rollout (sec): 4.9
30 - 0 (ft): 26
60 - 0 (ft): 108
Braking Rating: Very Good
Slalom (mph): 72.0
Skid Pad Lateral acceleration (g): 0.94
Handling Rating: Very good
Db @ Idle: 49.2
Db @ Full Throttle: 82.7
Db @ 70 mph Cruise: 70.3

Acceleration Comments: More revs are required here to get a sub 5.5-second 60-mph time, but I essentially use the same technique. The Z doesn't seem to like a lot of wheelspin -- it only gets slower. So getting the clutch out quickly and using WOT early is the key. This engine doesn't inspire at high rpm, but it does make power and lends itself to hard driving.

Braking Comments: Very good distance and pedal feel. We're not anywhere near approaching the thermal limits of these brakes in the succession of stops completed for this test.

Handling Comments: The more time I spend in the Z, the more comfortable I become. As of now, I've yet to drive it on the street -- only track testing. This is a communicative, direct-responding, focused sports car and it shows when it's asked to turn. Fun and fast. Around the skid pad there's immense grip, which seems to increase in direct proportion to how hard it's pushed. The rear doesn't want to step out and won't until something drastic (like instantly snapping off the throttle) is done. Even then, it's asking the driver if he really, really wants to do this. But it will play tail out it you want. And it's fun.

Joehand1 · 01-10-2010, 05:20 PM

How is a car with 20 plus less HP and almost identical otherwise faster from 0-60 and with better braking numbers????????????

Sport -30 - 0 (ft): 26
60 - 0 (ft): 108
Braking Rating: Very Good
Nismo-30 - 0 (ft): 28
60 - 0 (ft): 115
Braking Rating: Poor

Is this just a Nismo problem???????

Well, until I have a chance to replace the pads, I'm not taking a chance on tracking it.

mick · 01-10-2010, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Technik330

All good, no reason to apologize. Any way you look at it, is it really a stretch to imagine the Nismo Z as Nissan's shot a weekend track car? I think it'd be a stretch not to view it that way.

I mean if not, why use a base 370z as a platform for the flagship 370 Z? Why not offer a leather interior, navi, or a better stereo?

If not to cut out weight, maybe cost?

i don't think the nismo is the flagship 370z because when fully equipped, it costs significantly less than other models.

Modshack · 01-10-2010, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Chuck

I have a question. If we go to the upgraded pads to avoid any problems, what will the driving experience be on the street? I have not purchased yet but will soon and plan on doing a bit of mountain driving and would not want to have any problems. Perhaps Modshack or someone who has pushed the Z throught the mountains can comment on their opinion on the stock pads down a tough stretch such as the tail of the dragon.

One other unrelated comment: when someone say boxsters suck it seems to take away from the discussion. Likes are a personal issue but if you look at how the boxster/cayman performs it hardly sucks. Whether you like the P cars is neither here or there but they all perform well...May be expensive to buy and maintain but perform well.

Personally I've found no shortcomings with aggressive street driving. Hard mountain running, tail of the Dragon stuff and aggressive turning/braking put the car in it's element. The brakes have good bite, are predictable and don't fade IMO on a good run through the mountains. I've had other cars I've had to upgrade the brakes on to perform this good. For street use, even very aggressive street use, I wouldn't worry. Nor do I find a need to upgrade anything related to the brakes. If I were doing 130mph braking on a track that "might" be different. In the mountains, you're typically doing hard 80 to 40mph braking with some cool-off time between the turns..

On the Boxster comment, the author of that is obviously Uneducated. Having owned a Boxster, even a lowly 214 hp version, IMO they are magic on the road. Telepathic and VERY well balanced. One of the best handling cars on the planet...but there are car bigots everywhere that "think" otherwise without ever having had any experiece with them..

Technik330 · 01-11-2010, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mick

i don't think the nismo is the flagship 370z because when fully equipped, it costs significantly less than other models.

I should've been more specific with my comment. I believe the Nismo, or at least as advertised, to be "the performance" 370z. Taking my point in to context, I believe it's possible to call the Nismo 370z the flagship 370z, in terms of performance.

BrianMSmith · 01-12-2010, 01:34 PM

If you have ordinary street pads on ordinary Mustang brakes....no problem. Ordinary street pads on the Nismo brakes, and you have major worries.

Even so, C&D did not like the Nismo much. From what I've heard, it's not as good as the standard + sport, could be the bigger wheels wreck the handling and grip...not as well matched to the suspension and related chassis bits as the plain old Z?

I just got out of a 9 year old Camaro, and the Z is not a "fast" car folks, not in the way most of us experience it. Get out of the GT500 or Camaro SS and you're wondering where Nissan left the engine. The Z is not a fast car, but it doesn't need to be, and it's not trying to be. On a track like the Lightning, it's gonna get whipped by 450hp no matter how great it steers. The Z is about the driving experience, and the Z has a Royal Flush on that trick. The Europeans, with all their sophistication, love the Miata MX-5 for chrissakes, for exactly this reason. And they love the Z. I miss the power of my old SS, but the Z offers much more, and for a road driving enthusiast, that's what I care about. Track times mean didly. I still ride an old Ducati 748 that has half the power of a new Duc 1198, and I prefer it that way. The drive is more about the connection and the rythm, less about staying attached to it.

shabarivas · 01-12-2010, 01:44 PM

I bet you these idiots left the shipping blocks in their suspension

BrianMSmith · 01-12-2010, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pulpz

I'm about half way through the article. And in my mind the bias against the 370Z stands out when reading about he Mustang equipped with the "Track Package". Noticeable brake fade after a few laps (prob comparable to 370Z) so why don't they rip the mustang for not having more durable brakes for what is a "track equipped car? They rip the Nismo's "tight shifting" transmission ( no mention of the advantages of synchro rev) but say that the mustang 5 spd is good for what it is. ?!?

American car mags are biased in favor of American cars, because they are American (both writers and cars). Euro car mags (I should say British mags, the ones I can read...) simply hate anything American, and will spend a whole test article Flaming a Z06 for lack of sophistication, or vauge steering, or poor refinement, or cheap interior, after it's whipped all the Ferrari's, BMW's, and Porsches in every measureable test. And if they do a test in America, they'll spend half the article making fun of Americans, before they even get to the car bit.

ChrisSlicks · 01-12-2010, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianMSmith

I just got out of a 9 year old Camaro, and the Z is not a "fast" car folks, not in the way most of us experience it. Get out of the GT500 or Camaro SS and you're wondering where Nissan left the engine. The Z is not a fast car, but it doesn't need to be, and it's not trying to be. On a track like the Lightning, it's gonna get whipped by 450hp no matter how great it steers. The Z is about the driving experience, and the Z has a Royal Flush on that trick. The Europeans, with all their sophistication, love the Miata MX-5 for chrissakes, for exactly this reason. And they love the Z. I miss the power of my old SS, but the Z offers much more, and for a road driving enthusiast, that's what I care about. Track times mean didly. I still ride an old Ducati 748 that has half the power of a new Duc 1198, and I prefer it that way. The drive is more about the connection and the rythm, less about staying attached to it.

Using the middle of the road numbers for all

2001 Camaro Z28
hp: 310
weight: 3614 lb
0-60: 6.5 sec
1/4: 14.0 @ 105 mph

2010 Camaro SS Manual
hp: 426
weight: 3849
0-60: 4.6 sec
1/4: 13.0 @ 108 mph

2009 Nissan 370Z Sport Manual
hp: 332
weight: 3232
0-60: 4.7 sec
1/4: 13.3 sec @ 106 mph

The number would indicate that the Camaro SS is just slightly faster in a straight line. Power it has a-plenty, and it will certainly "feel" faster due to the lower torque response.

Technik330 · 01-12-2010, 02:39 PM

I would like to avoid turning this into a muscle cars are cool debate; but I'd like to see an American "Muscle" car come up to the plate under 5 liters and putting out close to 9-10 hp / .1 liter and without a "blower."

That's the only gripe I really have with muscle cars, throw some more displacement at it mentality...

IDZRVIT · 01-12-2010, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Technik330

I would like to avoid turning this into a muscle cars are cool debate; but I'd like to see an American "Muscle" car come up to the plate under 5 liters and putting out close to 9-10 hp / .1 liter and without a "blower."

That's the only gripe I really have with muscle cars, throw some more displacement at it mentality...

LOL!!!! What in heck do you think a muscle car is? More cubes=more HP/TQ. Straight line performance for 1320 ft in the least time.

Technik330 · 01-12-2010, 04:37 PM

^

Very fast moving houses

NIZMOZ · 01-12-2010, 05:07 PM

Glad my NISMO 350Z didn't have any issues on the track in stock form even with OEM pads. It did great. Nissan cheaped out in areas.

01-03-2010, 06:41 AM	#168 (permalink)
370Zsteve A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Gold Coast CT Posts: 10,599 Drives: 2019 Corvette G.S. Rep Power: 43	Is the problem specific to the NISMO? That really has not been addressed. But read this and tell me it doesn't add weight to the theory. This is not the first time the Nismo has lost to it's brother in a comparison, btw: Inside Line tests hundreds of vehicles a year, but not every vehicle gets a full write-up. The numbers still tell a story, though, so we present "IL Track Tested." It's a quick rundown of all the data we collected at the track, along with comments direct from the test drivers. Enjoy. As factory track models go, the 2009 Nissan Nismo 370Z is not the most hard-core beast ever built on a production line. Then again, it's no sticker-and-stripe-job either. Underneath the aggressive new bodywork is a substantially revised suspension and a slightly more powerful version of Nissan's latest 3.7-liter V6. So how does it all work, you say? Well we wanted to find out too, so we took the new Nismo out to our test facility to run some numbers. Then we compared the results to our long-term 2009 370Z Touring. It was a moderate day in terms of temperature for both tests, but both of the 370s had auxiliary engine oil coolers so all the track work wasn't much of a problem. Once the results started to come in, however, the Nismo continually failed to deliver any better numbers than our standard car. Whether it was braking (worse), acceleration (same) or handling (same, but scarier), the Nismo never came out ahead. Actually, it did beat the standard 370Z in one category -- full-throttle decibel level. See the full results and explanations after the jump. Vehicle: 2009 Nissan Nismo 370Z Odometer: 1,027 Date: 06/16/09 Driver: Josh Jacquot Price: $39,340 Specifications: Drive Type: Rear-wheel drive Transmission Type: 6-speed manual Engine Type: V6 Displacement (cc/cu-in): 3,696cc (226 cu-in) Redline (rpm): 7,500 Horsepower (hp @ rpm): 350 @ 7,400 Torque (lb-ft @ rpm): 276 @ 5,200 Brake Type (front): Ventilated disc Brake Type (rear): Ventilated disc Steering System: Speed-proportional power steering Suspension Type (front): Double-wishbone Suspension Type (rear): Multilink Tire Size (front): 245/40R19 Tire Size (rear): 285/35R19 Tire Brand: Yokohama Tire Model: Advan Sport Tire Type: Summer performance Wheel Size: 19-by-9.5-inches front; 19-by-10.5-inches rear Wheel Material (front/rear): Alloy As tested Curb Weight (lb): 3,356 Test Results: 0 - 30 (sec): 2.1 0 - 45 (sec): 3.6 0 - 60 (sec): 5.3 0 - 75 (sec): 7.7 1/4 Mile (sec @ mph): 13.6 @ 103.2 0-60 with 1-ft Rollout (sec): 5.1 30 - 0 (ft): 28 60 - 0 (ft): 115 Braking Rating: Poor Slalom (mph): 70.4 Skid Pad Lateral acceleration (g): 0.91 Handling Rating: Very Good Db @ Idle: 47.1 Db @ Full Throttle: 84.8 Db @ 70 mph Cruise: 72.9 Acceleration Comments: More than enough power to blow off its tires at launch. Best launch from about 4,800 rpm with some wheelspin. Gnarly rubber going into 2nd. Can't try too hard, however, or you'll miss entirely. It hates fast shifts. Braking Comments: Clearly, pad bedding is important on the Z and this car doesn't appear to have had this done properly. Standard Z stopped shorter; this car feels like it has wooden pads. There's no fade, but also no effectiveness. Wildly inconsistent pedal feel, too. Handling Comments: (Slalom) Added stiffness makes Nismo harder to handle in our slalom which isn't very smooth. I'm confident this car is quicker on a racetrack, but the sharp bump at cone 3 makes it a challenge here. Same speed as the normal car, but a lot more work to get there. (Skid pad) Communication is good, but overall this doesn't seem like a great street setup, and grip is inexplicably less than the standard Z. Vehicle: 2009 Nissan 370Z Odometer: 1,971 Date: 03/03/09 Driver: Josh Jacquot Price: $40,320 Specifications: Drive Type: Rear-wheel drive Transmission Type: 6-speed manual Engine Type: V6 Displacement (cc / cu-in): 3,969cc (226 cu-in) Redline (rpm): 7,500 Horsepower (hp @ rpm): 332 @ 7,000 Torque (lb-ft @ rpm): 270 @ 5,200 Brake Type (front): Ventilated disc Brake Type (rear): Ventilated disc Steering System: Speed-proportional power steering Suspension Type (front): Double-wishbone Suspension Type (rear): Multilink Tire Size (front): 245/40R19 Tire Size (rear): 275/35R19 Tire Brand: Bridgestone Tire Model: Potenza RE050A Tire Type: Summer performance Wheel Size: 19-by-9.0-inches front; 19-by-10-inches rear Wheel Material (front/rear): Alloy As tested Curb Weight (lb): 3,374 Test Results: 0 - 30 (sec): 2.0 0 - 45 (sec): 3.5 0 - 60 (sec): 5.2 0 - 75 (sec): 7.6 1/4 Mile (sec @ mph): 13.5 @ 103.7 0-60 with 1-ft Rollout (sec): 4.9 30 - 0 (ft): 26 60 - 0 (ft): 108 Braking Rating: Very Good Slalom (mph): 72.0 Skid Pad Lateral acceleration (g): 0.94 Handling Rating: Very good Db @ Idle: 49.2 Db @ Full Throttle: 82.7 Db @ 70 mph Cruise: 70.3 Acceleration Comments: More revs are required here to get a sub 5.5-second 60-mph time, but I essentially use the same technique. The Z doesn't seem to like a lot of wheelspin -- it only gets slower. So getting the clutch out quickly and using WOT early is the key. This engine doesn't inspire at high rpm, but it does make power and lends itself to hard driving. Braking Comments: Very good distance and pedal feel. We're not anywhere near approaching the thermal limits of these brakes in the succession of stops completed for this test. Handling Comments: The more time I spend in the Z, the more comfortable I become. As of now, I've yet to drive it on the street -- only track testing. This is a communicative, direct-responding, focused sports car and it shows when it's asked to turn. Fun and fast. Around the skid pad there's immense grip, which seems to increase in direct proportion to how hard it's pushed. The rear doesn't want to step out and won't until something drastic (like instantly snapping off the throttle) is done. Even then, it's asking the driver if he really, really wants to do this. But it will play tail out it you want. And it's fun. __________________ SOLD MY Z MARCH 2018 - another Core OG moves on - new ride 2019 Z Corvette Grand Sport - no mods necessary but already have eyes on HFC and intakes LOL IT NEVER ENDS.

01-10-2010, 05:20 PM	#169 (permalink)
Joehand1 Base Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Mississippi Posts: 7 Drives: 09 370 Z Rep Power: 234	How is a car with 20 plus less HP and almost identical otherwise faster from 0-60 and with better braking numbers???????????? Sport -30 - 0 (ft): 26 60 - 0 (ft): 108 Braking Rating: Very Good Nismo-30 - 0 (ft): 28 60 - 0 (ft): 115 Braking Rating: Poor Is this just a Nismo problem??????? Well, until I have a chance to replace the pads, I'm not taking a chance on tracking it. __________________ 2009 370 Z 2006 Ford GT 1987 Porsche 911 Carrera Last edited by Joehand1; 01-10-2010 at 06:22 PM.

01-12-2010, 04:37 PM	#179 (permalink)
Technik330 Base Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: SoCal Posts: 53 Drives: 05' BMW 330Ci ZHP Rep Power: 16	^ Very fast moving houses Last edited by Technik330; 01-12-2010 at 04:48 PM.

01-12-2010, 05:07 PM	#180 (permalink)
NIZMOZ Track Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 634 Drives: 07 NISMO 350Z SA M6 Rep Power: 491	Glad my NISMO 350Z didn't have any issues on the track in stock form even with OEM pads. It did great. Nissan cheaped out in areas. __________________ SOLD: 2007 NISMO 350Z #0044 Silver Alloy New DD: 2010 Titan Pro4X CC

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01-12-2010, 01:34 PM	#173 (permalink)
BrianMSmith Enthusiast Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: secret Posts: 267 Drives: 370Z, Ducati 748S Rep Power: 16	If you have ordinary street pads on ordinary Mustang brakes....no problem. Ordinary street pads on the Nismo brakes, and you have major worries. Even so, C&D did not like the Nismo much. From what I've heard, it's not as good as the standard + sport, could be the bigger wheels wreck the handling and grip...not as well matched to the suspension and related chassis bits as the plain old Z? I just got out of a 9 year old Camaro, and the Z is not a "fast" car folks, not in the way most of us experience it. Get out of the GT500 or Camaro SS and you're wondering where Nissan left the engine. The Z is not a fast car, but it doesn't need to be, and it's not trying to be. On a track like the Lightning, it's gonna get whipped by 450hp no matter how great it steers. The Z is about the driving experience, and the Z has a Royal Flush on that trick. The Europeans, with all their sophistication, love the Miata MX-5 for chrissakes, for exactly this reason. And they love the Z. I miss the power of my old SS, but the Z offers much more, and for a road driving enthusiast, that's what I care about. Track times mean didly. I still ride an old Ducati 748 that has half the power of a new Duc 1198, and I prefer it that way. The drive is more about the connection and the rythm, less about staying attached to it.

01-12-2010, 01:44 PM	#174 (permalink)
shabarivas A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 2,188 Drives: 370z MB 6mt Rep Power: 914	I bet you these idiots left the shipping blocks in their suspension

01-12-2010, 02:39 PM	#177 (permalink)
Technik330 Base Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: SoCal Posts: 53 Drives: 05' BMW 330Ci ZHP Rep Power: 16	I would like to avoid turning this into a muscle cars are cool debate; but I'd like to see an American "Muscle" car come up to the plate under 5 liters and putting out close to 9-10 hp / .1 liter and without a "blower." That's the only gripe I really have with muscle cars, throw some more displacement at it mentality...