Car and Driver Crashes a Nismo 370Z

MightyBobo · 12-29-2009, 10:54 AM

Oh, I know Magazines will always test OEM hardware. But anyone in their right mind going out to do an HPDE (Weatherman in particular) should invest some money in a good brake pad setup, too. Thats just dumb to think you'll do fine on a track with a 100% stock car.

370Zsteve · 12-29-2009, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pulpz

C&D did. And so will the other magazines.

It's to be expected that brake fade will occur on stock hardware after a few laps (or even runs on, say -Tail of The Dragon etc.) , but again - my concern (and C&Ds) is that for the 370z exclusively the fade is almost non-existent and rapidly becomes failure.

I'm not saying one shouldn't have to expect to upgrade pads for serious track or mountain driving. but I am saying a dramatic failure like this that can suddenly create a very dangerous situation on OEM hardware has to be considered poor engineering.

370Zsteve · 12-29-2009, 12:20 PM

From Car & Driver September Edition (is this even the same car?)

When the road starts turning and twisting, the steering wheel, while heavy in the hands, relays with precision what the Yokohama Advan Sports are doing.

From Car & Driver Feb 2010 Edition:

Even with enormous grip from its Yokohama Advan Sports, the Z feels uncomfortable and slightly disconnected when pressed.

RCZ · 12-29-2009, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 370Zsteve

I want to believe! But why don't you say that about the GTI? Or the Genesis? Or......

Well, because everything else on the Z is MUCH better suited for the track than the everything else on those cars. The GTI is waaaay too soft both in chassis and transmission and then the Genesis...well...I would not feel safe in one of those on the track without MAJOR upgrades.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MightyBobo

Seriously?

RCZ, are there seriously people who try to go out on OEM pads instead of just getting proper brake pads and doing a fluid swap like they should for SAFETY'S sake??? Its barely over $300 for a GOOD set of pads!

Well, I have done it twice. Its not really about the cost either. The first time I went out, I couldnt even run into that problem because the car would overheat before the brakes did (sad) and then the second time its when I experienced brake failure...twice. The first time it happened there was no real warning, I was coming down a long straight and braking for a hairpin and half way into braking it felt like someone put marbles under the tires and off I went. In the following sessions, I ran slower and tried putting less heat into the brakes. This time I did feel them slowly going away, more with each stop and then finally braking for the same corner (with lots of room this time) I gave them a nice stomp and there I went on the marbles again, but this time I had a lot of time to stop. Had to drive the car at 80% the rest of the day so I could enjoy my trackday and live to tell about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MightyBobo

Oh, I know Magazines will always test OEM hardware. But anyone in their right mind going out to do an HPDE (Weatherman in particular) should invest some money in a good brake pad setup, too. Thats just dumb to think you'll do fine on a track with a 100% stock car.

Its dumb to think you can do fine on the track with a 100% stock car that costs $35k. All the folks in porsches and z06's that I know do just fine on the stock tires and brakes. Some of you guys that get upset about brakes fading on the track, I think you are ridiculous...its a relatively inexpensive car and there HAVE to be compromises. Its not a race car, its a 30k street car. Be happy that everything else works as well as it does and if you are going to get on the track, then get some pads and an oil cooler. Its not that Nissan couldnt do it, its that they couldnt do it on that budget.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 370Zsteve

From Car & Driver September Edition (is this even the same car?)

When the road starts turning and twisting, the steering wheel, while heavy in the hands, relays with precision what the Yokohama Advan Sports are doing.

From Car & Driver Feb 2010 Edition:

Even with enormous grip from its Yokohama Advan Sports, the Z feels uncomfortable and slightly disconnected when pressed.

That sir is why Car and Driver is not a good source on information. About anything.

Zeto · 12-29-2009, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MightyBobo

Thats just dumb to think you'll do fine on a track with a 100% stock car.

I have to disagree, I took my stock S2000 to the track and it performed great. Like anything it could improve in certain areas, but for the most part it was a great experience.

Mag350Z · 12-29-2009, 02:29 PM

I think for $30000 the 370 is an amazing car right out of the box. The Nismo 370Z however, is marketed as "race proven" on Nissan's own website.
To me, race proven should mean that a car can run a few laps without overheating or losing its braking ability.
While the regular 370Z is probably fine for 99% of street use, the Nismo "race proven" 370 should have an oil cooler and upgraded brakes from the factory.
If this were to add 1 or 2 thousand dollars to the price I think most Nismo buyers probably would accept this as reasonable.

vipor · 12-29-2009, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mag350Z

I think for $30000 the 370 is an amazing car right out of the box. The Nismo 370Z however, is marketed as "race proven" on Nissan's own website.
To me, race proven should mean that a car can run a few laps without overheating or losing its braking ability.
While the regular 370Z is probably fine for 99% of street use, the Nismo "race proven" 370 should have an oil cooler and upgraded brakes from the factory.
If this were to add 1 or 2 thousand dollars to the price I think most Nismo buyers probably would accept this as reasonable.

the brakes were supposed to be "Brembo-equivalent" and if all they are lacking is pads then okay.

an oil cooler just seems way too obvious to be looked over, but i'll be getting my own also

Sharif@Forged · 12-29-2009, 04:15 PM

Give me ANY OEM braking system out there and I bet can create a situation of total brake failure in 5 angry laps at a track that is heavy on braking.

If Nissan installed a more aggressive pad from the start, then everyone would complain they are too noisy and dusty. Been there and done that with the 350Z.

The guys at CD arent you average drivers....they are pros trying to brake stuff and go insane with the cars they test, and should have known better, plain and simple.

NYBladeZ · 12-29-2009, 04:24 PM

bet you they didn't take out the front spring spacers

vipor · 12-29-2009, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYBladeZ

bet you they didn't take out the front spring spacers

Mag350Z · 12-29-2009, 04:42 PM

i think that logic only works if multiple cars had similar problems
no other car had any type of mechanical failure

nicknick · 12-29-2009, 04:54 PM

[
Its dumb to think you can do fine on the track with a 100% stock car that costs $35k. All the folks in porsches and z06's that I know do just fine on the stock tires and brakes. Some of you guys that get upset about brakes fading on the track, I think you are ridiculous...its a relatively inexpensive car and there HAVE to be compromises. Its not a race car, its a 30k street car. Be happy that everything else works as well as it does and if you are going to get on the track, then get some pads and an oil cooler. Its not that Nissan couldnt do it, its that they couldnt do it on that budget.

That sir is why Car and Driver is not a good source on information. About anything.[/QUOTE]

How many of you would have paid an extra 1G to not have these issues? 1G is a weeks pay for most of us, right? If you could not afford an extra 1G then should you really be owning such an "expensive" car?

abakja1 · 12-29-2009, 04:58 PM

Caliper good, rotor good,. brake pad,..."NO GOOD!!"

Stopping requires friction and either the rotor or pad gotta go,..seems the pad is too soft for the rotor which should be eating away...Id get beefier pads before tracking the car and switch them out for daily driving...

Quote:

Originally Posted by 370Zsteve

All well and good, but the 370Z was still the only car that had this problem. I'm just sayin'...every other car seems to have made it through to the end. (Just finished reading the entire article, came in the mail today)

ChrisSlicks · 12-29-2009, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicknick

[
Its dumb to think you can do fine on the track with a 100% stock car that costs $35k.

Actually the braking issue has little to do with price, it has to do with owners of previous models of Nissan/Infiniti products wining about brake dust. They went to a different composition to cure that but created a new problem of very low temperature handling. It's not the only car to have this issue, the new Audi A4 suffers a similar problem. Fortunately the solution is simple and cheap, buy $300 worth of pads.

Equinox · 12-29-2009, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abakja1

Caliper good, rotor good,. brake pad,..."NO GOOD!!"

Stopping requires friction and either the rotor or pad gotta go,..seems the pad is too soft for the rotor which should be eating away...Id get beefier pads before tracking the car and switch them out for daily driving...

something like 28 lbs per rotor if memory serves

12-29-2009, 10:54 AM	#91 (permalink)
MightyBobo A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 8,465 Drives: No cars; only bikes Rep Power: 52	Oh, I know Magazines will always test OEM hardware. But anyone in their right mind going out to do an HPDE (Weatherman in particular) should invest some money in a good brake pad setup, too. Thats just dumb to think you'll do fine on a track with a 100% stock car. __________________ I don't own a car anymore.

12-29-2009, 12:20 PM	#93 (permalink)
370Zsteve A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Gold Coast CT Posts: 10,599 Drives: 2019 Corvette G.S. Rep Power: 43	From Car & Driver September Edition (is this even the same car?) When the road starts turning and twisting, the steering wheel, while heavy in the hands, relays with precision what the Yokohama Advan Sports are doing. From Car & Driver Feb 2010 Edition: Even with enormous grip from its Yokohama Advan Sports, the Z feels uncomfortable and slightly disconnected when pressed. __________________ SOLD MY Z MARCH 2018 - another Core OG moves on - new ride 2019 Z Corvette Grand Sport - no mods necessary but already have eyes on HFC and intakes LOL IT NEVER ENDS.

12-29-2009, 04:15 PM	#98 (permalink)
Sharif@Forged The370Z.com Sponsor Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Marietta, GA Posts: 840 Drives: 2009 GT-R, 2010 370Z Rep Power: 17	Give me ANY OEM braking system out there and I bet can create a situation of total brake failure in 5 angry laps at a track that is heavy on braking. If Nissan installed a more aggressive pad from the start, then everyone would complain they are too noisy and dusty. Been there and done that with the 350Z. The guys at CD arent you average drivers....they are pros trying to brake stuff and go insane with the cars they test, and should have known better, plain and simple. __________________ Sharif@Forgedperformance.com General Manager/Certified Tuner/NASA-PCA-BMWCAA Instructor JRZ RS1's Available NOW...PM me Cobb ProTuner, Uprev ECU Flash, FCON Vpro, Haltech, Motec Certified Last edited by Sharif@Forged; 12-29-2009 at 04:19 PM.

12-29-2009, 04:24 PM	#99 (permalink)
NYBladeZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: New York Posts: 2,158 Drives: Lotus Exige S Rep Power: 20	bet you they didn't take out the front spring spacers __________________ 2009 Carbon Fiber/Red 370z aka Trish: Sports Package, Meisterschaft full catback, Fast Intentions Longtube Headers, Injen Long Tube Intakes, UpRev Tune: Sold 2008 Lotus Exige S Club Racer aka Bella, always leaves me smiling

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12-29-2009, 02:29 PM	#96 (permalink)
Mag350Z Base Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: South Florida Posts: 95 Drives: 2011 GS Corvette Rep Power: 16	I think for $30000 the 370 is an amazing car right out of the box. The Nismo 370Z however, is marketed as "race proven" on Nissan's own website. To me, race proven should mean that a car can run a few laps without overheating or losing its braking ability. While the regular 370Z is probably fine for 99% of street use, the Nismo "race proven" 370 should have an oil cooler and upgraded brakes from the factory. If this were to add 1 or 2 thousand dollars to the price I think most Nismo buyers probably would accept this as reasonable.

12-29-2009, 04:42 PM	#101 (permalink)
Mag350Z Base Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: South Florida Posts: 95 Drives: 2011 GS Corvette Rep Power: 16	i think that logic only works if multiple cars had similar problems no other car had any type of mechanical failure

12-29-2009, 04:54 PM	#102 (permalink)
nicknick Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Australia Posts: 438 Drives: Mazda mx5 2007 6sp m Rep Power: 16	[ Its dumb to think you can do fine on the track with a 100% stock car that costs $35k. All the folks in porsches and z06's that I know do just fine on the stock tires and brakes. Some of you guys that get upset about brakes fading on the track, I think you are ridiculous...its a relatively inexpensive car and there HAVE to be compromises. Its not a race car, its a 30k street car. Be happy that everything else works as well as it does and if you are going to get on the track, then get some pads and an oil cooler. Its not that Nissan couldnt do it, its that they couldnt do it on that budget. That sir is why Car and Driver is not a good source on information. About anything.[/QUOTE] How many of you would have paid an extra 1G to not have these issues? 1G is a weeks pay for most of us, right? If you could not afford an extra 1G then should you really be owning such an "expensive" car?